7768 replies to this topic

[Darkwolven]

I admit I am fairly new. I only started about 4 months ago and I was exuberant. I bought hero mechs when on sale. I bought the Overlord package and added the saber package. When I saw the details of this package, I was flabbergasted. HOW CAN ANYBODY think this package at this price is feasible?! Just NO. As other's have said already. You can't just look at what you did with Phoenix, raise the price by 50% with some lame justification of "clan tech" and then multiply by the number of mechs. Just NO! Whoever came up with this pricing scheme, whether part of PGI or IGP needs fired immediately. It's an insult that you think charging the equivalent of 4-6 a-rate games at full price is reasonable for simply more pixels and less restricted hard points. $80 was pushing it for Phoenix as it was and the only reason it was worth while was the 3 months of premium if you LIKE premium. The fact that this package stops at 3 months premium as well even though the price still goes up several more tiers is even worse. THEN there was the response. You might as well said that you don't plan on honoring the promises made. You have a house full of full time artists and a house full of part time coders. That is just wrong. It shows exactly where your priorities are at. Selling pixels and not adding promised features. Now you expect us to believe a new time table when you can't keep to one ever. NOPE. I feel bad for those founders who believed in you and then got shafted with lies.

Edited by Darkwolven, 17 December 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[DemonRaziel]

Jyzene, on 17 December 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

So lets sum this up:
Legendary Founder Pack - 120$
Overlord Phoenix Pack - 80$
Masakari Clan Pack - 240$
MCs to buy Hero Mechs and skins - 60$

Congrats... you paid 500$ on a game that is hardly finished.

Feel free to add the Sabre Reinforcements for the Phoenix Pack and I'm very much certain they are planning the same for Clans, as suggested by the absence of Mad Dog in the initial Clan package.

[DemonRaziel]

focuspark, on 17 December 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

As previously stated, these 'mechs will become available ala cart in the future - these people will just need patience. Those without patience will need to purchase the whole lot.

I have already made my points, on this - in the post you quoted as well as a few others. You clearly disagree, so let's leave it at that.

focuspark, on 17 December 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Either way, nobody is getting a Clan mech before Jun 17th; so who cares?!

A couple hundred posters actively addressing their issues with the Clan package (as well as other aspects of the game) on the 3 currently most lively threads on these forums, I would imagine.

[Imperius]

Gold mechs should have been given to people that bought Founders, Phoenix, and the Clan pack!!! That's loyalty of Time and Money, not just $500. Or even better anyone that has spent $500 on this game though premium time, MC, and the mech packs.

[GrandLocomon]

Can someone add regional servers (or hit detection, mine is high ping though) to the gold picture? It should have been there. At least the regional servers. I swear ballistic hit detect is worse this supposedly fixed patch. That's the sort of thing I'm frustrated about with this game. The lack of playability (lol, is that a word?).

[Canadian Attack Beaver]

focuspark, on 17 December 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

The pricing difference between Phoenix and Clan packages has already been addressed by Russ B. (president of PGI). These packages cost more because Clan 'mechs cost more in terms of C-bills than IS 'mechs; because they're better.

No, they aren't better, otherwise the Clan mechs will be a P2W fiasco. All the Clan mechs will be are mechs with different customizability options. Clan weapons are being tweaked such that they don't make IS weapons obsolete as well.

In the tabletop, Clan mechs and weapons were more expensive in order to justify their superior performance. For the sake of game balance, this isn't being implemented (which is a good thing). However, removing the superiority of these mechs and weapons removes the justification for their higher prices.

I asked the question, why do the Clan mechs who have different but not superior performance have a 50% higher price than the Phoenix mechs (and 100% higher price than the Sabre!).

Here's your answer; because PGI knows they can gouge players who have been eagerly anticipating the arrival of the Clan mechs. PGI fabricated their higher price by saying they cost more C-bills, therefore they cost more MC. But C-Bill value is determined by PGI, so this is a fallacious argument.

There's a relationship between C-Bills, MC and tonnage, except when Clan mechs are involved increase C-Bill cost by 50%, MC cost by 50% and keep the tonnage the same. Oh, and you get new customizabilty that is being carefully tweaked so that these new, more expensive Clan mechs do not outperform existing IS mechs.

[focuspark]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 17 December 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

No, they aren't better, otherwise the Clan mechs will be a P2W fiasco. All the Clan mechs will be are mechs with different customizability options. Clan weapons are being tweaked such that they don't make IS weapons obsolete as well.

In the tabletop, Clan mechs and weapons were more expensive in order to justify their superior performance. For the sake of game balance, this isn't being implemented (which is a good thing). However, removing the superiority of these mechs and weapons removes the justification for their higher prices.

I asked the question, why do the Clan mechs who have different but not superior performance have a 50% higher price than the Phoenix mechs (and 100% higher price than the Sabre!).

Here's your answer; because PGI knows they can gouge players who have been eagerly anticipating the arrival of the Clan mechs. PGI fabricated their higher price by saying they cost more C-bills, therefore they cost more MC. But C-Bill value is determined by PGI, so this is a fallacious argument.

There's a relationship between C-Bills, MC and tonnage, except when Clan mechs are involved increase C-Bill cost by 50%, MC cost by 50% and keep the tonnage the same. Oh, and you get new customizabilty that is being carefully tweaked so that these new, more expensive Clan mechs do not outperform existing IS mechs.

Even Russ' example showed Clans to be superior. He specifically says they're going to keep the "flavor" of Clans being superior. They're just going to tame the difference.

So Clans > IS. Clans more expensive than IS as well.

At no point does this become P2W as all Clan mechs will become free (C-bill cost) items. There's a pay for first access here, but that is it.

[RG Notch]

focuspark, on 17 December 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Even Russ' example showed Clans to be superior. He specifically says they're going to keep the "flavor" of Clans being superior. They're just going to tame the difference.

So Clans > IS. Clans more expensive than IS as well.

At no point does this become P2W as all Clan mechs will become free (C-bill cost) items. There's a pay for first access here, but that is it.

So why would anyone use IS mechs if Clan mechs are better, even if slightly so. They are either better and worth more money or equal. If they are charging more they are admitting they are better, and if better even marginally so why use IS mechs?
Seems that have either invalidated their old content or simply adding more of the same and should just charge the same.

[LordBod]

I've been around since closed beta, a member of the other server (the one with S), also bought the phoenix overlord, but this clan package is just too much for the current state of the game. sorry PGI and IGP but this clan package is the last straw for me.

the pricing is just too much for just mechs. as already mentioned by several people, with that price, you can buy plenty of other stuff like a PS4, a high end video card, etc

Edited by LordBod, 17 December 2013 - 04:56 PM.

[Gwydion Ward]

Not sure if ive posted on this 'official' forum thread yet. But if i have, sorry in advance for double-posting, if you guys at PGI even read this as its up to 300+ pages of replies.

I Love the fact that you guys at PGI are finally adding in the Clanner tech (even if it is nearly a year away). Ive waited a while to finally be able to get a Mad-Cat, as its the 1 mech i have always loved in the MW universe.

What i 'dont' like though, about the current Clanner packages. Is that it looks as if you took all of the Clanner mechs, Lined them up in order of popularity, then put the highest possible price you 'think' anyone is willing to pay at the top, then worked your way down the list. Making it so that anyone who wants one of the iconic calnner mechs that have a high popularity, must FIRST spend $100+ before they are 'allowed' to spend the $30-$60 for the 1 or 2 mech 'packs' they actually want.

This brings to mind the Marvle Super-hero F2P game that looks like a Diablo rip-off. They have the same pricing plan on their 'hero' characters. Taking the popular ones like Cable, and throwing a $30-$40 price-tag on it, while leaving the less-known hero's at $2-$3.

That type of pricing plan simply sticks of being a cheep, manipulative, money-grab.

It made me flat refuse to even consider paying/supporting the group hosting the Marvel game, and it came damn close to making me walk away from MWO.

I LOVED what you guys did with the Founders packs. And while i only got the Pack that let me chose only 1 Mech, Had my own personal finances been a bit better, i WOULD have gotten the level that allowed me to get 2 Mech's of my choice (as there were 2 i wanted).

While i am a 'full' Phoenix/Sabre pack owner, i didnt simply throw all of that $$ at you guys 'solely' to help support the game, though that is 'part' of the reason i did. I ALSO threw that much money at you guys because i simply linked the look of ALL of the Mech's offered in those two packages (and my finances were a bit better off).

I just wish you guys had gone back to the type of buying/selling strategy that you used with the FOUNDERS packs with this Clanner pack, Rather than following through with the Pricing plan used with the Phoenix packs.(i.e: Spend $x for the ability to chose 1,2, 4, 6, 8,. Mech-Packs. with the price going up for each 'tier). That way someone such as myself could happily spend $60, to get the 2 clanners i want, help support the game development... and all without 'throwing away' $ for that 'privilege'

Yes Phoenix packs were somewhat pricy, but at most we were buying 6 mech 'groups'. (phoenix + Sabre). What your asking people to do now, (or rather what you are trying to manipulate people into doing now) Is throw away up to hundreds of dollars, purchasing anywhere from 1-15 different mechs' they dont want, just to have the 'privilege' of spending the last 10$ on the 1 mech they actually want.

There is a BIG difference in buying 2-3 mech's you dont really want, in order to get to the 'level' you need to buy the 1 you do (as in Phoenix pack's for those who wanted the Battlemaster), than there is in buying 10-15 mech's you dont want, to get the 1 you do.

In my case, there are only 2 Clanner mech's I want. The Thor, and the Madcat. With the Madcat being the 'one' true mech i want as its 'my' personal "hero" mech.

That said, I would have to 'throw away' $180, before i am "allowed" to spend the $30 i want for the Mad-Cat pack so that i can pilot my favorite mech from the entire MW Universe. (or if you include the Thor as well into the math, i will essentially be throwing away $150, before i am 'allowed' to spend the final $60 on teh 2 mech-packs i actually want.)

As i said. I am All for giving you guys $ to help you develop the Game. I am All for BUYING stuff I like, in order to get what i like while ALSO helping to support the development of the game.

But i flat REFUSE to 'throw away' money buying stuff i dont want, in order to get the 1 or 2 items i do want.. and would happily pay you for individually. At-least not in the total number of $'s your trying to manipulate people into spending.

Edited by Rhapsody Repine, 17 December 2013 - 05:31 PM.

[Naskoni]

r4plez, on 17 December 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

So we have it:


pure bulls#it, and this is just first paragraph... time to move on, MWO is runned by incompetent devs followed by greedy developers

waltonpopz, on 17 December 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

[CDLord HHGD]

Wonder if I'll get another forum tag to go along with my Founders and Phoenix when I buy the Clanner stuff.....

[focuspark]

RG Notch, on 17 December 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

So why would anyone use IS mechs if Clan mechs are better, even if slightly so. They are either better and worth more money or equal. If they are charging more they are admitting they are better, and if better even marginally so why use IS mechs?
Seems that have either invalidated their old content or simply adding more of the same and should just charge the same.

There are a number of possibilities. Maybe clanners drop 5 vs 12. Maybe clanners don't share tactical information, so despite having better individual mechs they have worse teams. Maybe two dozen other reasons/ideas to balance it out.

PGI likely won't, though have monetary incentive to do so, render all old content useless when introducing clan tech.

[Canadian Attack Beaver]

focuspark, on 17 December 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Even Russ' example showed Clans to be superior. He specifically says they're going to keep the "flavor" of Clans being superior. They're just going to tame the difference.

So Clans > IS. Clans more expensive than IS as well.

At no point does this become P2W as all Clan mechs will become free (C-bill cost) items. There's a pay for first access here, but that is it.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering responding to this. You either lack the intelligence to analyze and discuss this and/or you are emotionally invested in this game which is blocking your ability to objectively look at it.

Go read the Clan Technology: A Design Perspective again.. and again if need be. It mentions SEVERAL times that the devs are trying to avoid an arms race between Clan and IS by designing the mechs such that the Clan mechs have different customization options. It also says, SEVERAL times that their aim is to design the Clan mechs such that they do not cause obsolescence of the current IS mechs upon their release.

So, no, the Clan mechs are not going to "superior"; they will have different customization mechanics. I am actually astounded that I have to explain this to you. Given this, the increase in price justified by the supposed higher price of "Clan tech" in the lore of the game is nothing but a fabricated excuse for a cash grab.

And I can tell you at precisely what point this becomes P2W (assuming your asinine presumption that Clan mechs are "superior" holds true). It will be the day the Clan mechs are released to players who bought them. At that point non-paying players, who cannot use C-bills to buy the mechs, will be outclassed by paying customers. THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF PAY-TO-WIN. This is obviously a huge concern for the devs, which lends further support to the position that the Clan mechs will be tweaked such that they aren't superior to the existing IS mechs.

Let me put it this way for you, since you obviously can't figure this out on your own. IF Clan mechs are superior and outclass IS mechs (and that justifies their higher price, according to you) how is that not P2W since non-paying players won't have access to these mechs for several months? Get that? You are contradicting yourself. Somehow you managed to contradict yourself in 5 sentences; that's amazing. Do you honestly think the several months where paying players are able to steamroll non-paying customers are inconsequential? Or since, at some point, non-paying players will have access to the same mechs (after enduring these months of getting steamrolled) that this doesn't count as P2W? Regardless, your position is contradictory and weak.

What this leaves us with is a situation where either Clan mechs will superior and we'll end up with a P2W game (for at least several months) or a situation where Clan mechs simply have different customization options, are not superior to the current IS mechs but simply have a 50% higher price per grouping than the Phoenix mechs.

Both situations are bad and will push people away from this game.

Edited by Canadian Attack Beaver, 17 December 2013 - 05:52 PM.

[Darth Futuza]

Quote

For those who do not buy a Clan Collection, the Standard Variants release schedule will be announced in the coming months.

Okay... I guess I'll wait.

[2Cats]

Looks good. Balancing the Omni....Difficult. I think many on this thread realize that. The whiners, well....don't let them get to you PGI.

[Rocky]

WOW
That is what I said when I saw the prices. This game costs too much. A normal game would cost around 60 dollars U.S. to purchase and play. Guild Wars is a 3D huge game with no monthly costs that uses micro transactions to support their servers. They have constant updates and I have not yet explored the entire game. MWO on the other hand uses huge transactions. I mean, $30 pack? and the reward is three mechs? I can not afford this game.

I can already hear a reply "it's free to play!" Sure it is, and you can have some fun; however, real mech fans will desire these mechs and are left with a HUGE grind or pay a HUGE fine. I'm sorry, I can't justify either. It is a neat game, but come on! Give your community some cheaper options, $500, $240 and on and on is simply too much. I was actually angry when I looked at the prices! This isn't an "I quit" letter or anything but I had to express how awful I believe these prices to be. I beg of the MWO team" Reconsider the price points for the mechs.

-An angered customer ( I say customer as I purchased a founders pack long ago)

[Chronojam]

Chikote, on 17 December 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

"A sucker gets up every morning, you just have to find him." I am ashamed to have been that sucker, but I will be no more.

W...O...W.

I'm inactive from the game. I want sooooo badly to love this game. I purchased legendary founder, liked the game...for a week. Got bored. Game was a one trick pony. But I want my mechwarrior, so I keep watching and waiting for something to draw me in.

Phoenix package brought me back. Nice mechs, reasonably priced. Grabbed the overlord package. Drew the line at the sabre package until the game actually proves to provide long-lasting fun times. Played the game for...2 days. Got bored. Still...a one trick pony. Back to waiting to be drawn back in.

Load up the MWO front page one day, what do I see? O..M..G its my favorite mech the timberwolf. Last I read CW was "coming", I'm seeing clan mechs, I see my timberwolf. Hopes are high..if but for a few minutes. I look at the pricing. HOLLY MOTHER OF PEARL $240 for the top tier. HOLLY MOTHER OF PEARL $500 GOLD MECHS!!! Well then, I soooo want these mechs, they really are a major item I'm waiting for. But...no thank you. Nice money grab. Well, at least CW should be right around the corner. Wait...wait...read the forums, catch up a bit, and....yea when is this CW coming out again? Oh, not here. Game is still a one trick pony. Will PGI ever bring forth new, diverse, long lasting fun content for this game? Or will they just continue to keep that carrot dangling on a stick, just out of reach, just tantalizing enough to get people to keep spending money on the promise of future greatness.

Well no more for me. I'm out. Sorry, this cash grab and the continued lack of good new content is too much for me. I want a great MW game sooo much, as do many others, and PGI is exploiting this to just rob us blind. The amount of cash grab I have experienced in this game is shameful. I greatly regret the $250 - $300 I have dumped into this game which I have gotten maybe 2 good weeks of playing out of. Maybe I'll check back in one day, CW will be out, the game will be more than the same one trick pony, and I'll finally be drawn into the game I hoped this would be. I hope it happens (not holding my breath). But I will not give another dime to PGI.

Just make sure you don't let them do it again, yeah? Especially with the same tired promises and same avoidance of communication.

GZBLASTERMASTER, on 17 December 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

[...]

Another point: If we can't control what maps we drop in, why are they charging us for patterns and colors still? Think about it, you want to deck your mech with a particular white or white/gray camo scheme to drop in Alpine and you land in Terra Therma 5X in a row...I would suppose the intent of sale is for the purpose of campaign effectiveness in CW, so since it's not here as promised several times, why not drop pattern and color prices until it arrives. This would actually push more sales in that area pre-"supposed" CW release if people knew the prices will go back up afterwards, pilots in a House, Clan, Merc, or Pirate group without the colors needed won't be allowed to drop unless they are in accordance. Running around with an off brand scheme that's been purchased and sticking out like a sore thumb on a map it wasn't designed for is BS, it's old now, and wearing a snowfall polka dot pattern in Caustic Valley would be the last straw. Do they even consider this madness when asking for your money.

Well, according to an interview from early 2012, you're going to totally be able to get your mech configured pre-match in the lobby so you don't end up with SRMs and black camo in the middle of Alpine. Except that was not true in the end, was it? And we're still waiting for lobbies, or even a simple "next map will be ____" indicator.

[focuspark]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 17 December 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

I'm not sure why I'm bothering responding to this. You either lack the intelligence to analyze and discuss this and/or you are emotionally invested in this game which is blocking your ability to objectively look at it.

Go read the Clan Technology: A Design Perspective again.. and again if need be. It mentions SEVERAL times that the devs are trying to avoid an arms race between Clan and IS by designing the mechs such that the Clan mechs have different customization options. It also says, SEVERAL times that their aim is to design the Clan mechs such that they do not cause obsolescence of the current IS mechs upon their release.

So, no, the Clan mechs are not going to "superior"; they will have different customization mechanics. I am actually astounded that I have to explain this to you. Given this, the increase in price justified by the supposed higher price of "Clan tech" in the lore of the game is nothing but a fabricated excuse for a cash grab.

And I can tell you at precisely what point this becomes P2W (assuming your asinine presumption that Clan mechs are "superior" holds true). It will be the day the Clan mechs are released to players who bought them. At that point non-paying players, who cannot use C-bills to buy the mechs, will be outclassed by paying customers. THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF PAY-TO-WIN. This is obviously a huge concern for the devs, which lends further support to the position that the Clan mechs will be tweaked such that they aren't superior to the existing IS mechs.

Let me put it this way for you, since you obviously can't figure this out on your own. IF Clan mechs are superior and outclass IS mechs (and that justifies their higher price, according to you) how is that not P2W since non-paying players won't have access to these mechs for several months? Get that? You are contradicting yourself. Somehow you managed to contradict yourself in 5 sentences; that's amazing. Do you honestly think the several months where paying players are able to steamroll non-paying customers are inconsequential? Or since, at some point, non-paying players will have access to the same mechs (after enduring these months of getting steamrolled) that this doesn't count as P2W? Regardless, your position is contradictory and weak.

What this leaves us with is a situation where either Clan mechs will superior and we'll end up with a P2W game (for at least several months) or a situation where Clan mechs simply have different customization options, are not superior to the current IS mechs but simply have a 50% higher price per grouping than the Phoenix mechs.

Both situations are bad and will push people away from this game.

Paul's example includes an LRM20 launcher for clans which is better. Lighter, no range limit, slightly more heat. That's better.

Then there's the omni mech aspect of the chassis themselves. Choose the hard point loadout you like... that's better. Clan mechs will be better. PGI will have to find another way to balance IS vs Clans.

That said, Clan mechs are better therefore they cost more. Russ even says "Clan technology is significantly more expensive", thus implying that it is better.

I get that you're looking at the world through a very specific lens, but relax; nothing bad has happened to you. Nothing has actually changed. Calm down, breath, and if you don't like the offering from PGI don't purchase.

[RG Notch]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 17 December 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

I'm not sure why I'm bothering responding to this. You either lack the intelligence to analyze and discuss this and/or you are emotionally invested in this game which is blocking your ability to objectively look at it.

Go read the Clan Technology: A Design Perspective again.. and again if need be. It mentions SEVERAL times that the devs are trying to avoid an arms race between Clan and IS by designing the mechs such that the Clan mechs have different customization options. It also says, SEVERAL times that their aim is to design the Clan mechs such that they do not cause obsolescence of the current IS mechs upon their release.

So, no, the Clan mechs are not going to "superior"; they will have different customization mechanics. I am actually astounded that I have to explain this to you. Given this, the increase in price justified by the supposed higher price of "Clan tech" in the lore of the game is nothing but a fabricated excuse for a cash grab.

And I can tell you at precisely what point this becomes P2W (assuming your asinine presumption that Clan mechs are "superior" holds true). It will be the day the Clan mechs are released to players who bought them. At that point non-paying players, who cannot use C-bills to buy the mechs, will be outclassed by paying customers. THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF PAY-TO-WIN. This is obviously a huge concern for the devs, which lends further support to the position that the Clan mechs will be tweaked such that they aren't superior to the existing IS mechs.

Let me put it this way for you, since you obviously can't figure this out on your own. IF Clan mechs are superior and outclass IS mechs (and that justifies their higher price, according to you) how is that not P2W since non-paying players won't have access to these mechs for several months? Get that? You are contradicting yourself. Somehow you managed to contradict yourself in 5 sentences; that's amazing. Do you honestly think the several months where paying players are able to steamroll non-paying customers are inconsequential? Or since, at some point, non-paying players will have access to the same mechs (after enduring these months of getting steamrolled) that this doesn't count as P2W? Regardless, your position is contradictory and weak.

What this leaves us with is a situation where either Clan mechs will superior and we'll end up with a P2W game (for at least several months) or a situation where Clan mechs simply have different customization options, are not superior to the current IS mechs but simply have a 50% higher price per grouping than the Phoenix mechs.

Both situations are bad and will push people away from this game.

So wait a minute, you're saying the team that can't balance the current tech is going to both fix the balance issues with current tech, while blending in a new tech and make that balanced. Who cares what they say the aim is, does anyone remember what the AIM of ghost heat was? How's that working? And that's without adding a boat load of new tech. How about their AIM for role warfare? Their AIM to balance all weight classes to be viable?
I guess like the "new" road map, this time it will be different.