7768 replies to this topic

[HiP]

maybe, they will make the Clan mechs much better BUT ONLY if you are a VERY skillful pilot, like managing heat, range, and stuff.
while if you are a bad pilot like me, the Clan mechs might make you even worse

that would be a reasonable option, i think.

with the same kind of thinking, i think this game will become P2W when a good pilot in a "bad" free mech can never beat a bad pilot in a "good" pay-only mech.

the more worrying thing of these packs are the warhorn and the bonus module, as it doesn't seem like they will be available to the non-paying players afterwards, even with a lot of patience.

The Gold Mechs ARE P2W though, because if done realistically, a skillful pilot can blind his ennemies by reflecting the sun light in the cockpits of the ennemy mechs !

finally, what if they actually need to have a sizeable Clan population to be able to start the Community Warfare ? IS vs Clans makes more sense, than IS vs IS ? i don't know, i did not dive into battletech lore enough, so i was wondering just that.

Edited by HiP, 17 December 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[Canadian Attack Beaver]

focuspark, on 17 December 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

Paul's example includes an LRM20 launcher for clans which is better. Lighter, no range limit, slightly more heat. That's better.

Then there's the omni mech aspect of the chassis themselves. Choose the hard point loadout you like... that's better. Clan mechs will be better. PGI will have to find another way to balance IS vs Clans.

That said, Clan mechs are better therefore they cost more. Russ even says "Clan technology is significantly more expensive", thus implying that it is better.

I get that you're looking at the world through a very specific lens, but relax; nothing bad has happened to you. Nothing has actually changed. Calm down, breath, and if you don't like the offering from PGI don't purchase.

There's something wrong with people who feel the need to defend companies they have nothing to do with. It implies you have a strong emotional investment in this game.

The LRM20 was discussed as a weapon they are having trouble balancing due to the specific aspects of Clan tech that make it superior without violating their desire to avoid changing tonnage and crit slots. Honestly, are your comprehension skills that poor?

Customizing hardpoints is simply a different customization mechanic than what exists currently.

Right now we can customize engine, armor (amount & type), structure, weapons and components with fixed hardpoints.

Clan mechs can customize weapons, components and hardpoints with fixed engine and armor.

That's different; not "better".

Russ saying "Clan technology is significantly more expensive" is alluding to the lore of the game that Clan tech is more expensive to balance out its superiority relative to IS tech. Russ is using this as a justification for their price gouge, despite the fact the Clan tech is being balanced so as not to be superior (see, there's that reading comprehension skill).

You're right, I am getting annoyed. I have little patience for people who don't recognize the limits of their own intelligence and continue to spew nonsense in defence of a company they have nothing to do with. Everything you've said is contradictory, unsupported by what was actually communicated, and completely f##king worthless to this discussion.

Do you even recognize how your "Clan tech is better and therefore it justifies the higher price" is contradicting your "this isn't a P2W" situation? Good grief.

[Lindonius]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 17 December 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

No, they aren't better, otherwise the Clan mechs will be a P2W fiasco. All the Clan mechs will be are mechs with different customizability options. Clan weapons are being tweaked such that they don't make IS weapons obsolete as well.

And this means that the clan mechs are just another load of chassis that will be dropping in the regular 12v12 deathmatch along with all the other IS mechs.

So the nut-job whales will be dropping in their $500 gold Clan windowlicker-mobile on the same team as F2P noob IS trial mechs.

Edited by Lindonius, 17 December 2013 - 06:47 PM.

[Canadian Attack Beaver]

RG Notch, on 17 December 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

So wait a minute, you're saying the team that can't balance the current tech is going to both fix the balance issues with current tech, while blending in a new tech and make that balanced. Who cares what they say the aim is, does anyone remember what the AIM of ghost heat was? How's that working? And that's without adding a boat load of new tech. How about their AIM for role warfare? Their AIM to balance all weight classes to be viable?
I guess like the "new" road map, this time it will be different.

Ha! Good point. I guess I'll have to clarify that this is the intention of the devs.

[HiP]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 17 December 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Russ saying "Clan technology is significantly more expensive" is alluding to the lore of the game that Clan tech is more expensive to balance out its superiority relative to IS tech. Russ is using this as a justification for their price gouge, despite the fact the Clan tech is being balanced so as not to be superior (see, there's that reading comprehension skill).

Hey Beaver,
i read it differently.
from what i understood, the clan tech will be superior. but the designers just don't want it to be too much. like so far superior that everyone will feel the need to get a clan mech, leaving the IS population empty.
empty IS houses because people feel they can never win against a clan mech.
they might want you to stick to your favorite house (or stay a mercenary) if you have one.
if clan tech is superior but far more expensive, and harder to use in game, that might balance out the population ?

for example, if you have an amount of cbills that can get you 2 IS mechs fully equipped with top of the line components and weapons, or just 1 clan mech with average components. even if the clan mechs are more powerful when mastered, you might want to seriously think about this choice, especially if you prefer the IS houses or mechs design ?

i dont know, but that's what i think might happen.

[Canadian Attack Beaver]

Lindonius, on 17 December 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

And this means that the clan mechs are just another load of chassis that will be dropping in the regular 12v12 deathmatch along with all the other IS mechs.

Yup, and you get the privilege of having mechs with hardpoint customization for a 50% price increase over the Phoenix mechs! Yay!

HiP, on 17 December 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

Hey Beaver,
i read it differently.
from what i understood, the clan tech will be superior. but the designers just don't want it to be too much. like so far superior that everyone will feel the need to get a clan mech, leaving the IS population empty.
empty IS houses because people feel they can never win against a clan mech.
they might want you to stick to your favorite house (or stay a mercenary) if you have one.
if clan tech is superior but far more expensive, and harder to use in game, that might balance out the population ?

for example, if you have an amount of cbills that can get you 2 IS mechs fully equipped with top of the line components and weapons, or just 1 clan mech with average components. even if the clan mechs are more powerful when mastered, you might want to seriously think about this choice, especially if you prefer the IS houses or mechs design ?

i dont know, but that's what i think might happen.

Quote

The other titles that had multiplayer components became arms races to get Clan Tech and once achieved, nothing changed from that point on. Inner Sphere technology became obsolete at that point if a player wanted to be competitive in a match. This is something that we do not want to happen in MechWarrior Online. We are aiming to make sure that all types of gameplay are available while keeping all current BattleMechs viable on the battlefield.

Bolded for emphasis. The post then continues on to illustrate the points being looked at to balance Clan tech & weapons with IS tech & weapons.

[Quaamik]

One thing "justifies" the higher price for the Clan mechs:

The fact that people are willing to pay it.

Personally, I'm waiting. Partially because I want to see some of the promised content (such as the mechanics needed for CW like team drops and selecting maps). Partially because coming so close after Phoenix/Saber, and with the gold mechs, and with the negativity, and with making enough of a splash to rate an article in Forbes on how they are screwing up, I'm concerned that 6 - 7 months from now, the game won't be worth playing.

Someone else out here mentioned that they thought the game was "one trick pony". I disagree. But without something o make people want to come back week after week, month after month, players will fade away. What will be left will be hard core fanatics who are good, polished and enjoy being the one player on a launch dealing more than twice the damages everyone else does ... and newbies who can shoot yet acting as cannon fodder. CW, though I personally don't want to participate, ties people into he game long term. The mechanics necessary for CW (team launches, picking maps) lets people game with friends and again helps tie people to the game long term. Week after week, month after month of dropping into random PuGs, where you seldom see a name you recognize, you have no VOIP and have to pause to type a screen message gets old.

I hope I'm wrong. The latest game mode from the patch is a step towards CW, but its a baby step. It was deleting the code that had capture points in Assault. t could, no should, have been done months ago. Still, I hope it is a signal that hey are getting the mechanics for CW in place. Otherwise I have a feelin there will be hardly anyone playing in 6 months that remembers when the Clan packages were offered.

[Victor Morson]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 17 December 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Go read the Clan Technology: A Design Perspective again.. and again if need be. It mentions SEVERAL times that the devs are trying to avoid an arms race between Clan and IS by designing the mechs such that the Clan mechs have different customization options. It also says, SEVERAL times that their aim is to design the Clan mechs such that they do not cause obsolescence of the current IS mechs upon their release.

So, no, the Clan mechs are not going to "superior"; they will have different customization mechanics.

Maybe you should reread it too.

Their idea of putting a clan lrm in line with an is launcher was to make it 7 tons.. With SOME minimum.

So instead of SUPER MEGA OVERPOWRRED we get REALLY PRETTY OVERPOWERED.

If mwo lives to see clans, is mechs are automatically inferior. Don't judge that post by all PGI spins and bs but by the hard numbers...

[HiP]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 17 December 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

Bolded for emphasis. The post then continues on to illustrate the points being looked at to balance Clan tech & weapons with IS tech & weapons.

It seems you are interpreting what they are trying to spin for what you wish will be true.
they clearly say that clan tech is and will be superior.
and that they don't want it to completely unbalance the game to let players that prefer IS stick to IS. it is even in your quote.
in their examples, you can clearly see that clan tech is still much better the current tech even after their "balance" ideas.

i don't really care if you're right or wrong.
i don't even care if i'm right or wrong either

i'm just trying to tell you what i think will happen, and what the devs intentions are, and that what some people read are different than what you read because their words were vague enough that they can be interpreted several ways.

i'm a legendary founder and i hardly played the game for more than 75 matches. i'm waiting for the real content.
i'm a huge fan of the timber wolf, and kodiak. so i'll just have to be very patient, because i could care less about the other mechs they are selling in the packs
out of sheer lazyness, i cannot buy the packs : i would never play any of them, so it would just be a huge bother to manager them in the mech bays, having to scroll through them all to find the mechs i want.
i don't care about golden mechs too, except if i could use it to blind my ennemies with sunlight reflection

[Spaismahn]

Victor Morson, on 17 December 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

If mwo lives to see clans, is mechs are automatically inferior. Don't judge that post by all PGI spins and bs but by the hard numbers...

If that's true, what do you think will happen to this game?

IS mechs might be okay if they can equip Clan-tech (assuming Clan-tech is superior. You never know, it could go the other way in the name of balance.)

[longwang]

Wow, really want to pay, but I think the Devs are ripping us off.

They set a precedent with the founders packages that haven't been playing out. I mean, what did I get for paying $80 for an overlord package? Mechs with a C-bill boost, premium time, and a loyalty function that is meaningless. At least with the founder's package we got a C-bill credit. Because given the ASININE prices, there really isn't much benefit in return. If C-bills were included, that would be a little bit easier to justify, but it is difficult to swallow without choking.

Yes, there are other things in this package like additional modules and war horns that justify the cost. Really? Just like loyalty points justified the cost of the phoenix packages?

This game feels like I'm in an abusive relationship. I am emotionally invested to someone who is just taking advantage of those emotions. This is a game I LOVE. I grew up with it, and I am so thankful that this game is being made. I want to support it. I really really want these packages. OUCH, what did you punch me in the eye for I love you!!!

It seems like the strategy for balancing the superiority of Clan mechs is by pricing them out of reach for almost everyone.

[Khobai]

if they were really sorry theyd give all us all free stuff, thats what other game devs do

founders/phoenix pack buyers should get a free vulture

[CypherHalo]

Apnu, on 16 December 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

I don't disagree with you on the timing of the phoenix mechs to clan mechs. But having said that, its not like you have to spend money right away on the Clans. We were able to buy the Phoenix mechs for, what was it? Three months, more? Plenty of time to decide if PGI deserves your attention and dollars. Taken that way, and knowing deliverables are 6 months out form right now, I don't think the timing is a close as you think it is.

But you and I cannot say if they care or not about the community and are just pumping out bling. We aren't in the room with PGI to verify their emotional investment in the game and its players.

Having said that, PGI has screwed the pooch here. The community has been hyperventilating over UI2.0 and CW for months now. To release anything other than information about UI2.0 and CW is a shock. Even if its the clans which we were hyperventilating about a year ago. And yes, we too have been demanding it, but we've been demanding a stable game with CW mechanics that we've learned and understood first. And we've been demanding that ever since they suspended the Clan Invasion.

They tell us that things will happen very fast after UI2.0 and CW are out the door, I sometimes wonder if the Clan Collection escaped by mistake, but it doesn't matter really because we need more than what we have in this game right now.

I think player's patience is at the limit right now. The best course of action is to withold funds on the Clan Collections until we have more data or game elements released. If UI2.0 isn't ready, tell us why and tell us what your deadline is. I see no harm in that.

PGI has the habit of biting off more than it can chew on this project and they've done that again buy underestimating the community's desires and its reaction.

That is 100% PGI's fault. I won't be surprised if players do actually walk this time. I'm not one of them, but I will not surprise me at all. And I don't blame them. I just have more patience than they do. I've been judicious with my funds and do not feel ripped off so far.

I am, however, not interested, at this time, to purchase any of the Clan Collections.

Fair deal bro and yeah, it is hard to say for 100% what their motives are. All I'm saying is that "actions speak louder then words" and that is the message I'm getting from PGI's actions. Have fun.

longwang, on 17 December 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

Wow, really want to pay, but I think the Devs are ripping us off.

They set a precedent with the founders packages that haven't been playing out. I mean, what did I get for paying $80 for an overlord package? Mechs with a C-bill boost, premium time, and a loyalty function that is meaningless. At least with the founder's package we got a C-bill credit. Because given the ASININE prices, there really isn't much benefit in return. If C-bills were included, that would be a little bit easier to justify, but it is difficult to swallow without choking.

Yes, there are other things in this package like additional modules and war horns that justify the cost. Really? Just like loyalty points justified the cost of the phoenix packages?

This game feels like I'm in an abusive relationship. I am emotionally invested to someone who is just taking advantage of those emotions. This is a game I LOVE. I grew up with it, and I am so thankful that this game is being made. I want to support it. I really really want these packages. OUCH, what did you punch me in the eye for I love you!!!

It seems like the strategy for balancing the superiority of Clan mechs is by pricing them out of reach for almost everyone.

Some companies seem to do this with beloved IPs. I finally deleted Transformers Legends off my phone because it became abundantly clear to me that the company running that game didn't care to make it a fun or enjoyable experience, they just wanted to milk as much money off of Transformers nostalgia as they could and for too long, I let them get away with it. I feel PGI is doing the same thing with this game, hence the sky-high prices in this game compared to many other F2Ps (Hawken sells you mechs for $5 a pop) and, the cherry on top, $500 "gold-plated" mechs. I put "gold-plated" in quotes because really all it is a skin, you're paying $500 for a "shoot me now" skin.

[Grimlox]

Tell you what PGI. I will don't really have a big problem with the package prices and while I am hugely disappointed I can understand how delays in features can occur (understatement of the year). What you need to get me on board with the clan package is for you to make right some wrongs in a very simple way.

First you need to show some appreciation to all o the Phoenix pack purchasers who likely bought into it expecting certain promised features would be in place and absolutely used the loyalty medals when justifying the dollars we just parted with for you.

You fix the above by:

1) rewarding players monthly with a token for those that play x amount of games a month (not a lot either). This could be in the form of a cockpit item, banner, medallion, cbills, MC, free skin etc. nothing that really puts you out but something that shows you recognize you've strung us along expecting features that are now much further out then you committed to. This achieves retention of players and rewards loyal players (those that stick with your game monthly).

Secondly you need to recognize that selling a feature in a pack (loyalty medals) and not implementing the bonuses that they provide is a big blunder. Why should I believe the 17 items in the $240 pack will be worth anything come June otherwise. Some kind of reward similar to what I mentioned above would suffice to make us recognize you understand that what you failed to deliver on was bad and you are making up for it. This is how you earn back my trust.

Next I recommend you offer a discount for all those that bought the most recent package. 15% off the clan pack for all those that bought the Phoenix pack. You can lock the discount to the tier to prevent people taking advantage. You buy the first tier and you get 15% off the first tier of the next pack all the way up to the top tier.

What this achieves is encouraging people to buy packages regularly by rewarding those that pay to keep the lights on.

This ties into my last suggestion. Break up the clan collection in half. Use the discount model I suggested above to encourage people to buy both. You gain the benefit of allowing people more freedom of ability to buy only the mechs they want while also providing a minor savings to those that buy more.

The above suggestions will prove you recognize your active playerbase with operation 24 like rewards on a regular basis (capability to do this is obviously already in the game). You also make it right for the loyaly medal botch, and lastly you reward the other form of loyalty (those that give you their $$$ regularly) by giving them some better value for doing so.

Initiate some of these suggestions by April 1st and you will have parted this fool with his hard earned money on the clan collection.

[Kraknatz]

Please no more mechs until you complete new UI, private drops and factions.
These three are taking far too long and should be a priority.

Thanks

[Onlystolen]

Okay, so i guess if the stalkers legs are on backwards, the nova can have torso twist right?
The jump jets are supposed to off set the lack of/or none of the torso twist,
The low profile to help hide behind small hills,
The shear speed for a medium,
The challenge of the kill
But i guess some things were never meant to be.

The Nova was my favourite... </3

[Santos Villalobos]

I'm not sure if the pricing of the Clan Collections bothers me as much as how horrible the grind will be for a 20+ million C-Bill Timber Wolf. That seems pretty steep for a guy who likes to purchase his Battlemechs free and green. Mastering them is not even an option.

P.S. PGI should give us all a free Timber Wolf. They are awesome. Timber Wolf.

[Fallenbourne]

Khobai, on 17 December 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

if they were really sorry theyd give all us all free stuff, thats what other game devs do

founders/phoenix pack buyers should get a free vulture

Honestly I think founders should get some sort of bonus/freebie. Some of us paid up to $120 for 4 mechs, no medallion and less c-bill boost. With no "unlockables" like with the phoenix package (i.e. the skin and colors) I think we got the sort end of the stick. I'll admit that founders got MC and some premium time, but that ends up being used up and doesn't compare to the amount of mechs you get with the packages.

[Tekadept]

Fallenbourne, on 17 December 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:

Honestly I think founders should get some sort of bonus/freebie. Some of us paid up to $120 for 4 mechs, no medallion and less c-bill boost. With no "unlockables" like with the phoenix package (i.e. the skin and colors) I think we got the sort end of the stick. I'll admit that founders got MC and some premium time, but that ends up being used up and doesn't compare to the amount of mechs you get with the packages.

The bonus we got as Founders was to play the game back when it was more fun.

Edited by Tekadept, 17 December 2013 - 10:49 PM.

[BUDFORCE]

No Vulture??????????????