304 replies to this topic

[MavRCK]

Current update: Jan 01 - 2016



Welcome and thanks for reading my MWO Mech Tier List!

This guide is for new and experienced players with a focus upon competitive mechs that are most commonly used in competitive teamplay - also known as min-max'ing and meta.

For new players, this guide will give you an introduction and a framework on how to evaluate all the different chassis and variations of battlemechs in MWO. Your first mech choice is very important and as this will be your first impression of the game, I want to help you make an informed decision.


-MavRCK



Video Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/kaosmavrck/profile/highlights

Video Youtube: http://youtube.com/user/kaosmavrck

Link to the MWO forums discussion: http://mwomercs.com/...mech-tier-list/

Link to the Original Reddit.com/r/OutReachHPG disccusion: http://www.reddit.co...mech_tier_list/

Church of Skill Sundays at 7pm EST - Play with better players to get better: https://www.reddit.c...ouncing_church/


MavRCK's Mechwarrior Online MWO Mech Tier List


Week of 21/01/2014 - PATCH NOTES - 1.2.261 - 21-JAN-2014

.... 2014!?!? What!?

Yes, the current tier list is outdated and not being maintained. However, a friend Gman has a website dedicated to his tier list. We share similar views on the top meta mechs, but can often vary considerably on the remaining mechs. We also vary considerably on builds.

Mav's disclaimer: I am not sponsored by PGI or any team. I don't give 2 f***s about keeping competitive builds secret. I will share what I feel is the best mech and best build at the moment with you. I am better than 99.9% of the mwo population and 90% of the current competitive players in the top 3 teams atm - especially tactically. I am a little salty - I lack patience for stupidity and b*lls**t. I roll my eyes a lot at the stuff people do so I may not be the style for you. That said, I laugh often and find things humorous and want to help you.

This thread is being updated semi-regularly so check the front page and the last pages for additions and updated discussion.

Historically, I divided up the Mech Tier List into Competitive and Solo Queue / Quick Play. This is an important consideration as the top competitive pilots are on a level far-above the top casual players and the time-to-kill is fast. If you want to get into competitive MWO or just want to farm Solo Queue, keep reading.

1. I will update the Competitive Tier List sometime in the near future once the current meta is established. For historical and quick reference, I have left it below.

2. I will post what I feel are currently strong mech choices and some suggested builds for Solo Queue / Quick Play.

3. I cannot stress this enough: ECM is strong in Solo Queue / Quick Play - 99.99% of MWO players and 95% of most competitive mwo players cannot visualize the map like a chess board and predict movements based on mech class, terrain and time elapsed. If you can't see the red marker on the mini map, you are at a huge advantage so exploit and farm.

4. My old videos contain a lot of information on building mechs and tactics. The tier list isn't relevant but the discussion and commentary continues to be.

5. New videos and streams will be posted soon™ here, on twitch and on youtube. I will be doing an explanation of Fat4Eyes MWO Tactics Guide: http://steamcommunit...s/?id=573089143

6. LRMs are atm not viable at high-level play. (Explanation link below at end post). This is a 4-year-old dead topic and will not be discussed. Please read this link and watch the videos: http://mwomercs.com/...a/page__st__140

7. The best players and imo streamers are from Team EMP, Lords and SJR if you want to learn to play better. For entertainment, choose whoever you like.

8. The marauder was just released and I like this mech for Solo Queue / Quick Play. Builds and advice linked below at end of post.

9. My suggestion for a first mech after you farm all your cadet bonus and total about 14 million cbills:EBJ-B . It's a good starter mech with easy to use lasers and will carry you to many wins. Build it exactly like this - click on EBJ-B.

10. From 2: I'm going to list my favourites of each class and what I think is currently strong in solo queue (usually good in meta / team). Remember, 99% of MWO players are dumb and chase red dots on the mini-map like a dog chases a cat (into traffic); accordingly ECM is really strong so use it!



Solo Queue / Quick Play Mech List (Not Competitive Tournament Tier List)

Light Mechs (20-35 tons)

Inner Sphere

LCT-1E 20 tons - 6SL
LCT-3M 20tons - 5ML
UM-R60L 30 tons - 4MPL 2MG
FS9-A 35 tons - 8SPL
FS9-S 35 tons - 5MPL
JR7-F 35 tons - 6ML
OXIDE 35 tons - 4SRM4
RVN-3L 35 tons - 2ERLL ECM
RVN-2X 35 tons - 2LL 2ML
RVN-4X 35 tons - 2LL
WLF-2 35 tons - 6ML

Clan

ACH 30 tons - 6SPL ECM or 4/5ML ECM or 2ERLL ECM
KFX 30 tons - 3ML AC5 ECM or 2ERLL ECM or 4SRM4-Art or 4SSRM4
ADR 5MPL or 4SRM4-Art or 4SSRM4



Medium Mechs (40-55 tons)

Inner Sphere

BJ-1X 45 tons - 6ML 2MPL
BJ-3 45 tons - 6MPL
YEN-LO-WANG 50 tons - AC20 2ML ('cuz it's the Wang)
CN9-AH 50 tons - AC20 3SRM4
CRB-27B 50 tons - 6MPL
ENF-4R 50 tons - 4ML 1LL
HBK-4J 50 tons - 2LRM10 4SL (Omfg - LRM?! Yes - one of the few good LRM boats)
HBK-4P 50 tons - 9ML 260STD Engine
HBK-4SP 50 tons - 4ML 4SRM6
WVR-6K 55 tons - 3LL2ML or 3LPL

Clan

SHC - 45 tons - 3ERLL ECM
HBK-IIC - 50 tons - 6MPL, 8ML, etc etc.
SCR-PRIME - 55 tons - 6MPL, 5SSRM6



Heavy Mechs (60-75 tons)

Inner Sphere

QKD-5K - 60 tons - 3LL 3ML (other versions can run 4ERLL etc.)
JESTER - 65 tons - 4ERLL 2ML or 6ERLL
CPLT-A1 - 65 tons - 6SRM6
CPLT-C4 - 65 tons - 2MPL 4SRM6
TDR-5SS - 65 tons - 7MPL
TDR-9SE - 65 tons - 3LPL
CTF-0XP - 70 tons - 4MPL 1G ECM
GHR-5N - 70 tons - 3LL 4ML
BL-7-KNT-L - 75 tons - 3ERLL 5ML
MAD-5D - 75 tons - 3LPL 2MPL
BOUNTY HUNTER II - 75 tons - 4ML 2LPL 1G
ON1-VA - 75 tons - 2MPL 4SRM6

Incoming:

ARC-T TEMPEST - 70 tons - 4MPL2SRM6 ECM (Can you say **** Yea?! )
RLF-5D - 60 tons - 3LL3ML (Meh - I didn't buy it)
WHM-6R - 70 tons - 3LL3ML (Meh - Looks disappointing)


Clan

MDD - 60 tons - 6SRM6, 6SSRM6
EBJ - 65 tons - ML 2LPL G, 2G 5SL, 2LPL3ML
HBR - 65 tons - 5ML G ECM, 2LPL3ML ECM
TBR - 75 tons - 4ML2LPL, 5ML G, 2ML2UAC5, 4ML 4SRM6



ASSAULT

Inner Sphere

BLR-1G - 85 tons - 4ML2LPL
BLR-1S - 85 tons - 4ML 4SRM6A
BLR-3S - 85 tons - 4MPL 2SRM6A
STK-3H - 85 tons - 4ERLL (Community Warfare)
STK-4N - 85 tons - 5LL
BNC-3M - 95 tons - 3LPL 5ML
AS7-S - 100 tons - 2LPL 4SRM6A
AS7-D-DC - 100 tons - 2LPL 3SRM6A ECM
KGC-000B - 100 tons - 4UAC5 2MPL


Clan

GAR - 80 tons - 2LPL 6SL
GAR - 80 tons - 4ML 6SPL
WHK - 85 tons - G 2LPL 3ML
WHK - 85 tons - 4ML 4LRM10A Tag
EXE - 95 tons - 2LPL 7SL
EXE - 95 tons - 2LPL 4ML
DWF - 100 tons - 5UAC5 3ML
DWF - 100 tons - 2G 2LPL 4ML (used to be king - for reference only after gauss nerf)


Check patch notes http://mwomercs.com/...38-01-dec-2015/ for the pdf / excel file on quirks.

(Work in progress - check back often! Still thinking about IIC Orion and IIC Highlander)

Notes:

1. IIC pack released - Jenner and Hunchback are awesome as predicted - Orion and Highlander are meh
2. Marauder Pack released - good solid mechs, the BHII is great - the 5D is great - the 3R is meh - I would suggest spending the 15$ on the BHII over the 20$ on the special variant of the 3R.
3. Archer Pack announced - looks very good - laser / SRM brawl meta coming - Tempest has ECM which equals Quick Play / Solo Queue Win!



Competitive Tournament Mech Tier List (Not Solo Queue / Quick Play)

Tier 1: Superior (Significant competitive advantage)
Tier 2: Satisfactory (Baseline)
Tier 3: Disadvantaged (Significant competitive disadvantage)

*Light Mechs (20-35 tons)*

- Tier 1: Jenner IIC, Arctic Cheetah, Firestarter, Raven, Jenner Oxide

*Medium Mechs (40-55 tons)*

- Tier 1: Hunchback IIC, Stormcrow, Blackjack, Griffin

*Heavy Mechs (60-75 tons)*

- Tier 1: Timberwolf, Ebon Jaguar, Thunderbolt, Marauder, Grasshopper, Black Knight

*Assault Mechs (80-100 tons)*

- Tier 1: Direwolf, Executioner, Stalker, Atlas, Battlemaster, Banshee




=========================================


Modules - Non-Consumables - Description


A. Radar Deprivation - reduces lock-on time by 1 second - most important module for Solo Queue / Quick Play

B. Seismic Sensor – This sensor is still very good on mechs with jumpjets and when you land you will get a reading. It's not as OP as before but it's a solid pick - second most important module for Solo Queue / Quick Play

C. Advanced Zoom – newly improved; it looks fantastic. Key module for long-range shooting. One of my top 3 modules.


D. Capture Accelerator – 15% increase; more useful in solo queue than tournament play (depending on tactics). Low priority module.

E. Target Info Gathering – 25% increase speed in getting information sooner - important on light assassins such as the SDR-5D where you need to focus fire on vulnerable locations to get a kill. High-skill players like this module - use Targeting Computers and BAP for similar affect.

F. 360 Target Retention – Very useful following lights but if you're a light you might find target decay works well enough

G. Advanced Sensor Range – 25% increase in sensor range.

H. Target decay – reduces loss of target by 1 second; I feel this is more useful than 360 when chasing one on one, but it's a personal preference.

I. Hill Climb - useless reduction 10% of deceleration in speed is negliable - PGI needs to make this into 25% incline boost before speed reduction. Useless.

J. Improved Gyros - reduces screen shake when hill - works well especially when jump sniping. Useless.





============

Modules - Consumables - Description

A. Cool Shot – More important in tournament than solo queue. Reset your heat when needed. Upgrade this asap.

B. Artillery Strike – This does a an area of effect explosion. Chance of a headshot - RNG.

C. Air Strike - This does a line of damage from where you targeted. It requires more skill but the close placement of the explosions give you a higher chance of a headshot. Preferred for most high-level players.

D. UAV – See ECM-cloaked mechs in a limited area for a limited period of time: very specific to your team’s composition and tactics. A light mech dropping this on an enemy group can make a huge difference! Aim slightly above the visual to hit it. Kill it fast!




===============

Resources:

- Guides and Forum Posts:

Wadde’s New Pilot Guide: http://mwomercs.com/...s-guide-to-mwo/

Smurfy’s MWO Reference: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

LiLab by Li Song - Another mechlab builder but you do this without an internet connection!: http://mwomercs.com/...b-mechlab-tool/

Skunkworks Windows Phone Mech Lab: http://mwomercs.com/...ab-for-windows/

80Bit’s Review of All 76 Mechs: http://mwomercs.com/...f-all-76-mechs/

Best fan comic ever by SirDubDub: http://mwomercs.com/...are/page__st__0

Highly relevant and useful read through all the pages - RHoD and Competitive Builds: http://mwomercs.com/...e-mech-designs/

- Streams and Videos:

Kaffeangst – HBA's Big Guy - one of the best players out there: http://www.twitch.tv/kaffeangst

Peefsmash – HBA's Ace Light Duelist - if you want to learn how to play a light quickly, I can't think of a better resource: http://www.twitch.tv/peefsmash (Wipsy, Adiuvo)

Adiuvo - PEEF's Goose - http://twitch.tv/mfmadiuvo

JagerXII - Steel Jaguar's own Jager - the pilot - Winner of Launch Tournament - his grasp of teamplay and fundamentals is outstanding: http://www.twitch.tv/jagerxii

Proton - Black Omen's Ace from Mother Russia - probably the best Jager pilot in MWO: http://www.twitch.tv/prtn_spz

LethalRose with NGNGTV - http://twitch.tv/lethalrose

HHoD's Drathex and Team 007 Channel - http://www.twitch.tv/drathek

Match Casting by Siriothrax: http://www.youtube.c...-h3hr1uQ/videos

- Groups and Teamspeak Info:

Headhunters of Davion – HHoD – runs the House Davion Ts3 Server – one of the best groups and largest groups in MWO – excellent training program: http://mwomercs.com/...s-rct-want-you/

List of community chat services and teamspeak servers: http://mwomercs.com/...e-chat-servers/


===============


For reference, here is the link to the old list and discussion - available for a limited time until it's removed: http://mwomercs.com/...mech-tier-list/ (You can find the old videos and discussions on my twitch channel and some of them on the youtube channel).


===============


The Marauder is well-worth your money - I wouldn't buy the $15 non-jumpjet special variant - it's crap. But the Bounty Hunter II is well-worth the $15.

Here's my review:

Quote

Firstly, the Bounty Hunter II suffers from a low engine cap - max speed and maneuverability are lower than other variants. As such, you need to maximize its alpha. The direwolf is dead but here's its Inner Sphere successor:
MavRCK's BH2 aka the IS Mini Daishi

5ML 2LPL Gauss 1JJ 300XL Endo

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b4c6b829face005

Once this mech is Double Basic, it's -5% energy heat generation shines allowing you to run up to 5ML (when leveling I recommend 3ML or 4ML for veterans). ML Range Module, Gauss 12% cooldown Module then eventually the LPL range or cooldown module for the Master Module Slot is key. Dropping the cooldown on the Gauss is key - any other autocannon is too hot.

The Marauder has good hitboxes so remember how to rotate torsos and not over-extending like the old days of the high-flying Victor-9K with its XL engine and AC10 .. and you'll be fine.

You can also run laser vomit, but with its slow engine cap and -5% heat generation, why would you? Especially when you have this other variant:

MavRCK's meta-carry 'Wublife':

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2485d6e1f215b78

3LPL 2MPL 2JJ 350XL Endo Max -0.5 tons Armor

This mech is so easy to use and play right away. As you level it, it gets better and better.. It's major drawback is that it's so heat efficient, you sometimes wish it had 1-2 more energy hardpoints for a better alpha.

It reminds me of the BL-7-KNT-L. I think the Black Knight is tankier - has better range and more speed. Can they compete? I think so. It's a style choice, especially considering the Marauder has jumpjets. JJs help it spread damage effectively and deal with maps like Viridian Bog.

Overall, I don't know if these two mechs will be seen in Competitive play - it's too soon after the patch and major quirk changes. I have a feeling the quirk changes are going to continue as Clan Mechs are in a substantially weak position. Brawling is in a better position than ever - and this punishes XL dependent builds more than STD engine builds.

===============

LRM discussion:

Quote

A lot of great players with proven pedigrees got involved because they genuinely care about the community and want to help people avoid frustration learning what is good and what is not good. Hats off to TheSilken and Envisage for organizing the event. Hats off to the player who donated their time (instead of farming cbills 2hr = ~2million cbills, watching football, etc.) Remember, espousing an opinion not supported by expert group consensus is misleading - and the purpose of this exercise was to give credence to one position or another.

Nonetheless, there is still a lot of beating-around-the-bush and nerdy theory-crafting going on.

The TL;DR answer is:

1. No LRMs are not competitive - they are a niche weapon which work randomly 10% of the time in 10% of situations.
2. Meta works 90% in 90% of situations.
3. Competitive players are so much better than your average enthusiast player (even that BS experience bar called Tier 1) that mixing teams with them or using their ideas / builds make games very lopsided.

If you want to play LRMs, do it. Have fun.

You've been warned should you bring them to competitive play.

Finally here's a post I hope helps people understand better LRMs:

MavRCK, on 08 December 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

This is an advanced point which 99% of MWO doesn't understand and only the top 10 competitive teams do:

- (your team's COMBINED effective health + damage taken) if greater than (your enemy team's combined effective health - damage DONE) = win

The problem is LRM boats is that you remove your armor / structure / attention to draw enemy damage from your team's COMBINED effective health.

So unless you are taking fire and rolling damage, your team is at a disadvantage with you playing LRMs (at this current meta / moment).

My strong suggestion is to not play them but if you are, look at the lightest most tonnage effective mech to play them, ie a medium mech like the Hunchback-5J. And get your own locks with tag.

Time 41:30s for discussion of movement and prediction of enemy movement patterns:

Edited by MavRCK, 01 January 2016 - 02:26 PM.

[Krasnopesky]

Awesome guide, glad to see it updated!

[TercieI]

Thanks for all you do on this, MavRCK. Great resource.

Edited by Terciel1976, 14 December 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[MavRCK]

The real "oxide" --- helping IGP with advertising -- screw Gold mechs. (timestamp 46:10)

[MavRCK]

User.cfg mentioned in video:

User.CFG
r_ColorGrading = 0
r_DepthOfField = 0
r_EyeAdaptationBase = 0.1
r_EyeAdaptationFactor = 0.85
r_EyeAdaptationSpeed = 4
e_ParticlesQuality = 1
e_ParticlesLights = 0
e_ParticlesMaxScreenFill = 32
e_ParticlesMinDrawPixels = 2
e_ParticlesMotionBlur = 0
e_ParticlesObjectCollisions = 0
r_UseParticlesHalfRes = 1
r_UseSoftParticles = 0



For the settings in game: I have everything to High except particles low, and antialiasing off. I get about ~60fps+ on most maps at 1440p on my late 2012 imac

Edited by MavRCK, 13 December 2013 - 10:34 PM.

[Ertur]

One thing with the Oxide is that since it came out the JR7-D and -K now have 10/5 missile tubes CT instead of 4/4. It doesn't help much with the -D (you can't have a 10 and 5 launcher in the CT at the same time, though you could have 2 5's), but it does allow for an LRM10 in the -K where the missiles all shoot at the same time. It's not an optimal build, true, but it's hard to find an optimal build for the -K. Anyways, 10 missiles at the same time is more better than shooting ten missiles in two waves of four and one wave of two. Likewise, an SRM6 in the -K will shoot all at once now, which they didn't before.

[Victor Morson]

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

Welcome and thanks for reading my MWO Mech Tier List!

Before I begin to nitpick a few things, I want to say this is overall a very solid post with some good recommendations. Just wanting to chime in on a few points. [You all knew this was coming.]

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

Competitive Tournament Mech Tier List (Not PUG – Not Solo Queue)
*Light Mechs (20-35 tons)*

- Tier 1: JR7-F, JR7-D, RVN-3L
- Tier 2: Tier 2: SDR-5D, <JR7-Oxide>, JR7-K, COM-2D
- Tier 3: RVN-2X-4X, COM-Death’s Knell-1D-1B-3A, SDR-5K-5V, LCT-3M-1V-3S

I agree with this, but think it's worth noting the JR7-K has found some new lease on life with it's 4 module slots now. I think tier 2 is still a fair assessment, but with the rise of Strikes, it's the best it's been.

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

*Medium Mechs (40-55 tons)*

- Tier 1: SHD-2H-5M-2D2, CDA-3M, CN9-A, HBK-4P, KTO-18
- Tier 2: BJ-3-1, TBT-5J-7M, HBK-4SP, CN9-AL-Yen-Lo-Wang, KTO-20-19-Golden Boy
- Tier 3: HBK-4J, CDA-X-5, CN9-D, HBK-4G-4H, CDA2A-2B-3C, TBT-3C-5N-7K, BJ-1DC-1X

This one has some problems.

The KTO-18 is in no way a Tier 1 'mech; it's a niche Tier 2 light hunter. The Shadow Hawk 2D2 pushed it down.

The Hunchback-4P is highly debatable as a gimmick; it's not really Tier 1.

The Golden Boy is in no way Tier 2. It is inferior in every single way to the KTO-18 and you'd never, ever want one in a serious drop. Tier 4 if you had one.

Yen-Lo-Wang's firepower is in the most easily removed area on any mech ever. Never see these competitively. In the trashbin with the Golden Boy.

Treb 3C / Cent 9D being Tier 3: These are actually fairly useful in a lot of leagues due to their ability to speed up to Jenner levels, and operate as tonnage / chassis sinks. These should both be Tier 2.

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

*Heavy Mechs (60-75 tons)*

- Tier 1: CTF-3D, JM6-S-DD, CTF-Ilya Muromets
- Tier 2: CPLT-K2, JM6-Firebrand-A, TDR-9SE-5S, ON1-
K-V-M-Protector-VA
- Tier 3: <-CTF-1X-2X-4X>, TDR-5SS, CPLT-C1-C4-Jester, QKD-4G-4H-5K, <-DRG-Fang-1N-DRG 5N-1C-Flame>

More or less on the nose. The CTF-4X is now an arguably Tier 1, or Tier 2 mech at the worst; 4 AC/5s is MASSIVE damage with a good alpha.

I'd argue the Flame might be Tier 2, but the Shadow Hawk has largely filled it's role, so that is debatable.

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

*Assault Mechs (80-100 tons)*

- Tier 1: HGN-733C, AS7-DDC, STK-Misery
- Tier 2: <-STK-3F>, VTR-9B-9S-DS-9K, HGN 732-733-Heavy Metal
- Tier 3: STK-3H-4N-5M-5S, <+HGN-733P>, BLR-1D-1G, AS7-RS-D-K,BLR-1S, AWS-9M-Pretty Baby-8Q-8R-8T-8V

This one goes off the rails ranking the Victor behind the Misery. The Victor 9S and DS are absolutely Tier 1 'mechs.They are a perfect bridge between the Cataphract and the Highlander. I'd argue likewise, the Misery is Tier 2, since there's little advantage to taking one over a Victor or Highlander.

The Heavy Metal is also arguably Tier 1 for it's ability to split AC/5s and PPCs onto mirrior torsos, increasing survivability. A lot.

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

ECM Mechs (Best to Worst)

- Raven3L = Atlas DDC, Spider5D, Cicada3M, Commando2D

+1

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

And finally... what you all really want to know in PUG land:

Overall Solo Queue Mech Tier List

In order of ability to influence a match - Best to Worst

- Light: JR7-F, JR7-D, SDR-5D, RVN-3L, <JR7-Oxide>, COM-2D, JR7-K

Again, the JR7-K is getting short changed a bit if you plan on using modules. But it's expensive to run, so for a pug list, you could argue this.

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

- Medium: SHD-2H-5M-2D2, CDA-3M, CN9-A, TBT-5J-7M, BJ-1-3, KTO-18, HBK-4P, HBK-4SP

I have no idea why you put the 2H Shadow Hawk ahead of the 5M or 2D2, but it's really a hard call. They're all good.

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

- Heavy: CTF-3D, JM6-S-DD, CTF-Ilya Muromets, <Orions>, CTF-4X, CPLT-K2

Not a bad list either. I'd put the 4X much higher up though, and the K2 ahead of the Orion. Minor gripes.

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

- Assault: HGN-733C-732, AS7-DDC, STK-Misery-Any, VTR-9B-9S-DS-9K, HGN, BLR-1D-1G-1S, Awesomes Are Not Awesome!

Pretty solid, but again, Victors deserve a jump over Stalkers positively. Victors run good meta guns with jump jets and have universally bested them in any environment.

[Hugh Manatee]

This list is very much underestimating the thunderbolt. Maybe it's on account of you can't get them with cbills yet but they are at least as potent, if not more so, then a jager. It can put out 30-40+ pinpoint alphas without ammo concerns, it can just about match it's speeds and it can take beating much better sine you can use it's arms as dummy/vestigial limbs. I can get scores of 400-600 easy in a t-bolt and have gotten some of my best scores in them, Take a look at some of these:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...73dd1d8575b9bc3

^thats my baby highlander 5S. The ppcs are right under the cockpit, so usually if you can see it you can shoot it. You get 1 aplha, then chain the AC10 between individually fired ppcs, or you fire 2 ppcs then the ac 10 and another ppc and keep that up till you have to single fire. The point is you get about 40 points in a burst, then 10 points chain fired till you overheat which takes several seconds. You can burst, then turn your dummy arm to absorb shots if you start taking fire too. It's only weak in close up knife fights.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...db7211709687e54

^that's a similar 40 point puncher 5S but with less of a chance to hit the heat penalty, slightly less fire power but more potency at short ranges. The 2 LL can be converted to ERLL if you're good at heat managing. You'll spread the damage a little with the lasers but i've found it can be worth it to be able to gimp spiders or whatnot when they try to close on you. I've thought about sacrificing a ppc, moving the laser to the torso, stripping the right arm and putting another ac5 but it would be too ammo dependent imo and too much fire power in a limb.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f591dfe4f5fba43

This is the guy you said was t3, the 5SS. Without the restrictions of the heavy ballistic you're free to take a much bigger engine, more heat sinks, and still get the 2 laser 2 ppc combo. I've been running that a lot(2PPC and 2 ERLL) on different chassis, like the K2, the tbolt and the battlemaster, and it seems to be working very well. You don't hit any heat penalties, you still get a near 40 point punch, lots of range, and as long as you take a backup weapon for when you have to lay off the ppcs, like the auto cannons, SRMs or in this case medium lasers it seems to work very well. I have a version of this that has an SRM6 artimes, but lately those have been unreliable so I've been taking the mediums and just dealing wit the heat.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e5010420de79e55

This guy is one of my favorites, second only to my 5S(p)(i'd run it more if it had the cbill boost) Again, the 2 ERLL, 2 PPC combo, this time with 2 streak 2 launchers with a BAP to discourage lights. With the BAP I can spot mechs out to 1000 and take shots with impunity and no worries about ammo. I can tag badguys for my allies while pop sniping with the main guns(fire the ppc first then trace with the lasers). It's decently swift, especially with the JJS, you can get to some useful perches. You can sacrifice a JJ for more armor or a bigger engine but I like the boost the 3 give me.

TL; DR The T-bolts are underrated in this list, they're like beam based jagers with throwaway limbs and 1 of them can jump.

Edited by Hugh Manatee, 14 December 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[luxebo]

Victor, give him some time, as he just got his thread set up now. I think a lot of your adjustments are solid though.

[MavRCK]

I like the builds and in solo queue, I'm sure they're effective. The JJ Tbolt is my favourite - watch my video from the Phoenix Mech Launch for explanations. Unforunately, no one uses Thunderbolts in

Quote

Competitive Tournament Mech Tier List (Not PUG – Not Solo Queue)

.

[MavRCK]

luxebo, on 14 December 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Victor, give him some time, as he just got his thread set up now. I think a lot of your adjustments are solid though.

The solo queue list isn't exhaustive.. I made a conscious decision not to include every variant in the list... otherwise you'd have a list of 25 mechs per weight class... going 1 to 25 is impossible.. So the list gives a general indication in reference to the different chassis.. I'll explain this in a video... so yea, the Jenner K is strong.. It's high up on the Competitive Tier List - Tier 2 so you know it's going to be solid in Solo Queue.

Victor should moderate my list when I'm away - his explanations are spot on and he has an excellent grasp of what works in competitive, high-level MWO.

FYI, the old list and discussion will be removed soon so if you want to the read it before it's gone go to the link -- the videos are still all available on my twitch channel and most of them on my youtube channel: click on my signature or http://mwomercs.com/...mech-tier-list/

Edited by MavRCK, 14 December 2013 - 09:40 AM.

[Modo44]

How is this new player help? Team play recommendations should be in the general guides, not here.

[Itsalrightwithme]

MavRCK, on 14 December 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

I like the builds and in solo queue, I'm sure they're effective. The JJ Tbolt is my favourite - watch my video from the Phoenix Mech Launch for explanations. Unforunately, no one uses Thunderbolts in .

Can you post the link to this vid please, MavRCK? Would love to see your JJ TDR build.

Thanks again for publishing this list, it's a great guide and everybody is well advised to read it.

[deviousmeister]

Thanks for updating and posting the great vid Mav. I agree with Victor Morson and his assessment that Victors are also top tier right now, at least in solo queue where I live. In particular I find the DS to be an excellent fit for the poptart meta. It brings the same weapons loadout of the 733C, with almost as much armor and 80kph, which I find to be extremely useful in pug land where you need to reposition with the flow of battle frequently (and get yourself out of the tight spots which often arise due to lack of coordination between your teammates).

Also: I am still fond of running 6mlas in the JR7-F as opposed to the five that were mentioned. If i recall correctly that leaves one mlas adding ~4 ghost heat when you alpha. Is this correct? Even with the 6 i find the heat to be fairly manageable when running around backstabbing and getting that pinpoint damage where it needs to be, and worth it for the extra 5 damage. Then you can fire in clusters of 3 or chainfire when dealing with other lights. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this. Thanks again.

[luxebo]

Modo44, on 14 December 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

How is this new player help? Team play recommendations should be in the general guides, not here.

It got moved from General Guides to here. I think personally MavRCK's guide is pretty well done, just needs a few adjustments and it should be fine.
New players are basically given a mindset of what's good what's bad, but shouldn't be limited if they, let's say, wanted an Awesome or a Locust. Even though both in my opinion aren't good starting mechs.

[MavRCK]

deviousmeister, on 14 December 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

Thanks for updating and posting the great vid Mav. I agree with Victor Morson and his assessment that Victors are also top tier right now, at least in solo queue where I live. In particular I find the DS to be an excellent fit for the poptart meta. It brings the same weapons loadout of the 733C, with almost as much armor and 80kph, which I find to be extremely useful in pug land where you need to reposition with the flow of battle frequently (and get yourself out of the tight spots which often arise due to lack of coordination between your teammates).

Also: I am still fond of running 6mlas in the JR7-F as opposed to the five that were mentioned. If i recall correctly that leaves one mlas adding ~4 ghost heat when you alpha. Is this correct? Even with the 6 i find the heat to be fairly manageable when running around backstabbing and getting that pinpoint damage where it needs to be, and worth it for the extra 5 damage. Then you can fire in clusters of 3 or chainfire when dealing with other lights. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this. Thanks again.

Agreed the Victors are good -- prior lists had them tier 1.. but in competitive games.. teams prefer highlanders if possible.. can't make all tier 1

6 ML won't cause ghost heat... 5ML plus a heatsink / bap will just allow you to have better dps.. but not better alpha!

[MavRCK]

luxebo, on 14 December 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

It got moved from General Guides to here. I think personally MavRCK's guide is pretty well done, just needs a few adjustments and it should be fine.
New players are basically given a mindset of what's good what's bad, but shouldn't be limited if they, let's say, wanted an Awesome or a Locust. Even though both in my opinion aren't good starting mechs.

Benefits of drinking with people in charge. Hope this helps!

Here are some videos from last month:

[Fajther]

Is there a forum topic that tells people how to modify their user config? I can't seem to find one. I would like to try his user config, but I can't find a file that user config on it.

[Bront]

Brand new thread? Interesting. Thanks for the work.

A few comments:

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

*Light Mechs (20-35 tons)*

- Tier 1: JR7-F, JR7-D, RVN-3L
- Tier 2: SDR-5D, <JR7-Oxide>, JR7-K, COM-2D
- Tier 3: RVN-2X-4X, COM-Death’s Knell-1D-1B-3A, SDR-5K-5V, LCT-3M-1V-3S

Fixed a small typo here.

I think the RVN 4X with an XL275 engine is now a pretty OK mech. 2 MGs, 2 MLs, and an SRM6 or 2 MG, 1 LL and a Streak both make an reasonable tier 2 mech, as it suffers from less heat issues due to the MG, climbs hills very well, and has a very low profile. The 2X is hard to defend because the Jenner-K is better in pretty much every way, but the 4X got a new lease on life with the engine upgrade.

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

*Medium Mechs (40-55 tons)*

- Tier 1: SHD-2H-5M-2D2, CDA-3M, CN9-A, HBK-4P, KTO-18
- Tier 2: BJ-3-1, TBT-5J-7M, HBK-4SP, CN9-AL-Yen-Lo-Wang, KTO-20-19-Golden Boy
- Tier 3: HBK-4J, CDA-X-5, CN9-D, HBK-4G-4H, CDA2A-2B-3C, TBT-3C-5N-7K, BJ-1DC-1X

KTO-Golden Boy should be in Tier 3, as it's strength is LRM boating, and that's generally not a competitive thing. Otherwise it's too slow and underarmored to do the SRM Brawl thing, and not a great anti-light due to it's lack of speed.. I also think the Cent-AL should be in Tier-3 since they fixed the Cent-Durability issue. The Cent-AL is a bad mech, and it should b

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

*Heavy Mechs (60-75 tons)*

- Tier 1: CTF-3D, JM6-S-DD, CTF-Ilya Muromets
- Tier 2: CPLT-K2, JM6-Firebrand-A, TDR-9SE-5S, ON1-
K-V-M-Protector-VA
- Tier 3: <-CTF-1X-2X-4X>, TDR-5SS, CPLT-C1-C4-Jester, QKD-4G-4H-5K, <-DRG-Fang-1N-DRG 5N-1C-Flame>

After talking to you about this last time, I built my CTF-2X as a mini-Atlas (with an XL engine admittedly) and had some success with it (2 ML, AC20, 2 SRM4, XL300), so I could argue it should be on the Tier2 list, but you can probably do that better in an Orion.

Meanwhile the CPTL-A1 didn't even make the list. Probably fitting.

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

*Assault Mechs (80-100 tons)*

- Tier 1: HGN-733C, AS7-DDC, STK-Misery
- Tier 2: <-STK-3F>, VTR-9B-9S-DS-9K, HGN 732-733-Heavy Metal
- Tier 3: STK-3H-4N-5M-5S, <+HGN-733P>, BLR-1D-1G, AS7-RS-D-K,BLR-1S, AWS-9M-Pretty Baby-8Q-8R-8T-8V

The BLR-1D should be on the Tier 2 list. Speed, high energy mounts, 3 balistics in the arm, you can rip stuff up with that pretty well, and it's XL safe (I know competitive folks hate XLs, but sometimes you have to give in). the 1G's torso twist limits it a bit more, though I'd argue it's ahread of the HGN-733P because of balistics and speed.

Also, the Stalker 5S is potentially the second best stalker due to the dual AMS, as folks are boating streaks more than ever, and AMS can take those out, and otherwise it has the same loadout of the 3F (though not the same twist), and the 4N is generally inferior to the other stalker chasis simply due to missing hard points with no real benefit (supposedly it stops faster. Woho?)


Also, I'd argue the Victor 9S deserves to be in Tier-1, maybe along with the 9B. The 9S is the best Victor Chasis (the 3rd ballistic slot isn't as useful as a 3rd missile slot), with the ability to pop tart with an AC20, and can be built for speed or for durability, so it's a flexible chassis. It holds a solid middle ground between a Cataphrat and a Highlander, with more durability and better weapons aiming range than the Cataphrat 3D, and more speed than the Highlander. Meanwhile, the DS is basically a mini-highlander, so it might have some merit on the top of that list, though I've never piloted one (I prefer the arm mounts).

I disagree with Victor, Misery deserves to be up there. Stalkers are durable beasts, and the Misery is scary.

MavRCK, on 13 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

ECM Mechs (Best to Worst)

- Raven3L = Atlas DDC, Spider5D, Cicada3M, Commando2D

I'd say the 3M and 2D are about equal in usefulness. Commando's small profile make it a harder target to hit, and with streaks it can harass and handle lights pretty well, while the 3M might have as much firepower as a Jenner with less speed and maneuverability, not much more armor, and a larger profile. Don't get me wrong, the 3M is a nice mech, but I think the 2D deserves more credit given how streaks are dominating the light scene.

---
Overall, nicely done.

I do think there should be a disclaimer somewhere that states that most pilots are better off in a mech they're comfortable with than a mech that's rated higher, so don't assume that a high rated mech will make you instantly competitive.

Edited by Bront, 15 December 2013 - 08:44 AM.

[luxebo]

Bront, on 15 December 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Brand new thread? Interesting. Thanks for the work.

A few comments:

Fixed a small typo here.

I think the RVN 4X with an XL275 engine is now a pretty OK mech. 2 MGs, 2 MLs, and an SRM6 or 2 MG, 1 LL and a Streak both make an reasonable tier 2 mech, as it suffers from less heat issues due to the MG, climbs hills very well, and has a very low profile. The 2X is hard to defend because the Jenner-K is better in pretty much every way, but the 4X got a new lease on life with the engine upgrade.

KTO-Golden Boy should be in Tier 3, as it's strength is LRM boating, and that's generally not a competitive thing. Otherwise it's too slow and underarmored to do the SRM Brawl thing, and not a great anti-light due to it's lack of speed.. I also think the Cent-AL should be in Tier-3 since they fixed the Cent-Durability issue. The Cent-AL is a bad mech, and it should b

After talking to you about this last time, I built my CTF-2X as a mini-Atlas (with an XL engine admittedly) and had some success with it (2 ML, AC20, 2 SRM4, XL300), so I could argue it should be on the Tier2 list, but you can probably do that better in an Orion.

Meanwhile the CPTL-A1 didn't even make the list. Probably fitting.

The BLR-1D should be on the Tier 2 list. Speed, high energy mounts, 3 balistics in the arm, you can rip stuff up with that pretty well, and it's XL safe (I know competitive folks hate XLs, but sometimes you have to give in). the 1G's torso twist limits it a bit more, though I'd argue it's ahread of the HGN-733P because of balistics and speed.

Also, the Stalker 5S is potentially the second best stalker due to the dual AMS, as folks are boating streaks more than ever, and AMS can take those out, and otherwise it has the same loadout of the 3F (though not the same twist), and the 4N is generally inferior to the other stalker chasis simply due to missing hard points with no real benefit (supposedly it stops faster. Woho?)

Also, I'd argue the Victor 9S deserves to be in Tier-1, maybe along with the 9B. The 9S is the best Victor Chasis (the 3rd ballistic slot isn't as useful as a 3rd missile slot), with the ability to pop tart with an AC20, and can be built for speed or for durability, so it's a flexible chassis. It holds a solid middle ground between a Cataphrat and a Highlander, with more durability and better weapons aiming range than the Cataphrat 3D, and more speed than the Highlander. Meanwhile, the DS is basically a mini-highlander, so it might have some merit on the top of that list, though I've never piloted one (I prefer the arm mounts).

I disagree with Victor, Misery deserves to be up there. Stalkers are durable beasts, and the Misery is scary.

I'd say the 3M and 2D are about equal in usefulness. Commando's small profile make it a harder target to hit, and with streaks it can harass and handle lights pretty well, while the 3M might have as much firepower as a Jenner with less speed and maneuverability, not much more armor, and a larger profile. Don't get me wrong, the 3M is a nice mech, but I think the 2D deserves more credit given how streaks are dominating the light scene.

---
Overall, nicely done.

I do think there should be a disclaimer somewhere that states that most pilots are better off in a mech they're comfortable with than a mech that's rated higher, so don't assume that a high rated mech will make you instantly competitive.

RVN-4X and 2X are in my opinion, top tier 3 mechs. Then again I'm mastering them at 97 kph, so...

Golden Boy's strength is it's camo and it being a hero. That's it, all other Kintaros can do everything better. SRMs can only go up to 26 missiles, while KTO-18 gets 30 missiles. Streaks and LRMs is bad for Golden Boy due to speed problems.

CN9-AL is either a low tier 2 or high tier 3. CN9-D and YLW are around that area too.

CPLT-A1 was tier 2 on the older list, but MavRCK needs to clean his list a bit, some typos and stuff.

On MavRCK's last guide, the tier 3 assaults are all snipers/fire support. So Battlemasters and Stalkers are fine imho, they're not the best brawlers.

Victors should be tier 1. I think they were misplaced by accident. Misery and 3F should be tier 2, while the rest of the Stalkers tier 3 because they've less torso twist and no ballistic port.

Can't comment on ECM mechs, the only one I've is 3L.

Overall, I agree with a lot of your points, though MavRCK just needs some patchwork on the guide.