1978 replies to this topic

[Haakon Valravn]

Riptor, on 14 December 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

So.. the omni mechs wich where heralded as the next evolution of battlemechs... praised for their flexibility...

Are less flexible then normal inner sphere battlemechs.


Not to mention the fact that you cant change armor values wich make some of the more flimsy clanmechs dead on arrival... the loki and thor for example have **** poor armor and very broad fronts.... and arms thin enough that twisting wont do anything to protect your torsos...

Also puma.. a light mech that goes about 90 kph.... a speed that heavier IS mechs with better armaments can achieve...

You missed the part where the hard points on LT, RT, LA, and RA are modular and can be swapped.

So they (omnis) are more flexible.

Except for the fact that you're allowed unlimited customization on IS chassis and you cannot change armor, structure, or engines on the Omnis.

So they're both more and less flexible.

Edited by Haakon Valravn, 14 December 2013 - 02:41 PM.

[Ensaine]

StandingCow, on 14 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Seems to me like he totally missed the point of why people are angry. We don't care that the clans are here... we care about the grab deal so close to the last pack of mechs when basic things that have been promised as "right around the corner" multiple times STILL aren't out.

How about you wait to introduce this until UI 2.0 comes out and is good? Or how about until you have all your CW {Scrap} working and ready to go or all the details panned out?

You fix the stuff from this image, and I will MAYBE start to trust you all again:


You guys continue to make me ashamed of my Legendary and overlord tags... honestly you do.

Can't say it any better than this.. how pathetic PGI.

Edited by Ensaine, 14 December 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[KhanHeir]

I really want to know how some one from nexon who wrote a thesis on f2p constitutes a job in game theory and meta theory.

[Tigerchen]

HAHAHAHA...just more promises and explanations. We all know better what would happen. PGI promised us CW, UI 2.0, DX11,private Matches and much more....and they delivered EVERYTHING...WAIT, they didn't........But people starts again to believe in their lousy promises.

[stinkypuppy]

omni customisation is terrible and dont change tonnage and slots because you are just going to ruin stock mechs, increaseing LRM wieight breaks timber wolf and if you want to add mad dog thats out of the picture too

[MoonUnitBeta]

Regarding streak SRM's : Please implement a minimum turning radius for streaks and minimum range before they are active...
This can be added to LRM's too so they are harder to hit with up-close (maybe not the min range since that already exists and is the reason people take Clan LRMs, but if they're virtually hard to use inside of 180m then that makes them less viable than previous clan tech, but still carries versatility and are usable in -some- cases.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 14 December 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[Steadfast]

There are some nice ideas (stock Engines/ Armour ^^) and some horrible - changing supremacy of weapons to laughable measures - seriously, both the tech and the pilot where better than everything the IS had the moment the clans invaded. The IS had NO Chance with even odds ... and I am a supporter of the IS. If PGI does not do this right and sacrifice this heritage on the altar of balance ... sigh, I fear I may be out cold.

Seriously, there are other ways, just do not easily let Clan Tech intermix with IS Tech for now. Just let Clan vs IS drop, no mixed teams. Make Clan side only 10 vs 12 and balance the tonnage per player Clan 50 IS 60 for starters.
Seriously... I .. man, I am out for now, cya around.
~S~
Daniel

P.S.: Oh and thank you for writing this up on a saturday. allways on duty, ehß Carry on. Dismissed.
~S~

Edited by Steadfast, 14 December 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[Xeren KelDar]

By increasing Clan LRM 20 weight to 7 (an extra two tons), where exactly are you going to get the extra 4 tons for that for Mad Cat/Timberwolf? This mech all ready comes equipped stock with all the weight saving features such as Endo Steel, Ferro Fibrous, and an XL engine and maxes out its tonnage with its stock configuration.

Please re examine any tonnage/critical variances carefully as it may have larger raminfications than you initally perceive. If you want to artifically inflate tonnage for Clan LRM, might I suggest a lower ammo count? This may have the effect of inflating the tonnage required for operation in MWO while not completely turning stock configurations illegal.

[Riptor]

Haakon Valravn, on 14 December 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

You missed the part where the hard points on LT, RT, LA, and RA are modular and can be swapped.

So they (omnis) are more flexible.

Except for the fact that you're allowed unlimited customization on IS chassis and you cannot change armor, structure, or engines on the Omnis.

So they're both more and less flexible.

In weapons loadout anyways. When omni mechs arrived in the inner sphere they where a revolutionairy design.. bagging inferior IS mechs left and right because of their flexibility.. but right now IS mechs are going to be more flexible.

With how expensive customisation is do you honestly believe that people will not to stick to one working cooky cutter build per clan mech?

That "flexibility" cripples them hard time.

Also none of these clan mechs have ECM... you can kiss those fancy Streaks goodbye

[Miken]

Now i can imagine what is going on. PGI don't want to fix ghost heat problem. In coutrary - ghost heat continiue to expand. And of course more another wrong desigions... Players already afford many good solutions. But PGI can't hear anymore. Good luck PGI. To the end of MWO.

[Kojin]

Interesting to say the least. Might work with some tweaks... How about a suggestion for the next UI 2.0 test and give us a couple of miscellaneous omni mechs to see the ideas in action?

[Karl Marlow]

Heh. He says they don't want to use any heavy handed nerfing with the clans. Two paragraphs later he says they are using heavy handed nerfing.

As to the changes you have proposed.

Lasers: What you have proposed doesn't seem like much of a nerf. Most people are already dealing with Ghost heat as it is. I'm all for Clans having their cool stuff but honestly this just makes the Clan ER LL Better hands down. The big problem we are going to face with all clan equipment is the tonnage and crit space reductions. They can't be altered without breaking stock loadouts.

Streaks: I don't like the chain fire approach. If I buy a Streak SRM-6 I want to fire 6 missiles at a time. I know it will hurt but there are other ways to balance it. The biggest problem with Streaks is they are just simply more powerful in MWO than they are in TT. Streaks aren't a big deal in TT since all it does is help you conserve ammo. Here they are heat seeking. I think balancing SSRM6's would be better served by revisiting the Streak mechanics so they are less of magical auto hit weapons and jsut help you conserve ammo. Possibly be removing the lockon. Make them fire just like normal SRMs but the game would calculate if you would hit if you fired and if you wouldn't hit then the missiles don't fire.

LRMs:You cannot change tonnage and crit space loadouts. That is a nonstarter. I do like how you are handling the minimum range issue. At the end of the day clan stuff is just going to be better. On weapons like this where, tonnage and crit space aside, the only difference is the removal of minimum range. Even if you made the tonnage and crit space equal that still makes this LRM better and the IS one obsolete.

Omnimechs: I like the modular approach you are proposing. It'll be interesting to see how this works when the players get their hands on it. The inability to change the CT is potentially brutal although that might be how all this gets balanced out. If clan tech can only be used by clan mechs then the fact that you can't change significant portions of the mech would make it harder to minmax with the clan weapons. Yeah the weapons might be hands down better but the armor and engines are going to be set to stock. If you then restrict clan tech for clan mechs and IS tech to IS mechs you have a way to bvalance all of this without doing any heavy handed nerfing to the clan weapons.

Further questions.
What is a Warhorn?
What unique module are Gold mechs getting?
Can IS pilots use Clan mechs in CW?
If not what happens to IS pilots who buy clan mechs?
Will we be able to have a IS and clan alliegance set?
Can IS mechs use clan tech?

[Sharp Spikes]

If "The amount and distribution of armor" is locked, then Firemoth, Mist Lynx, Kit Fox and Hellbringer are dead on arrival. Not that I care much at this point, just FYI.

[KhanHeir]

MoonUnitBeta, on 14 December 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Regarding streak SRM's : Please implement a minimum turning radius for streaks and minimum range before they are active...
This can be added to LRM's too so they are harder to hit with up-close (maybe not the min range since that already exists and is the reason people take Clan LRMs, but if they're virtually hard to use inside of 180m then that makes them less viable than previous clan tech, but still carries versatility and are usable in -some- cases.

They won't because both missiles use the same system and PGI is uninterested in going back and they've demonstrated they are incapable of any real coding.

They are sad to say incompetent.

[August55]

IS should be getting some advantage over Clan weapons in general instead of Clan weapons being gimped. (@Streaks, LRM nerf)

[Black Alexidor]

My favorite quote from that article:

"Balance is key"

...what game are they playing?

Edited by Black Alexidor, 14 December 2013 - 02:49 PM.

[NoSkillRush]

Only thing that comes to mind is swear words right now but I am going to keep it clean. I have 0 issues with spending money on this game because I enjoy it but what upsets me is the slow progression of development. We have been asking for some basic content for over a year now and instead of listening you guys are insulting us with this deals. I would gladly spend the money to get the top tier for the clan package but I am not going to spend anymore going forward until some of the basic promises have been met.

Please don't give me the it's not the same group working on it excuse.

[Redshift2k5]

Quote

Once you own the Mech you’ll be able to swap out each location (e.g. head, left arm, right torso, etc) with that of another configuration. This allows you to change the hardpoints within that location.

I like where this is going. sure, you can swap pods, but you need to buy another config to get the pods.

Having the Clan FF/Endo crit slots being "locked" vs the IS's "floating" makes a nice trade off between 'advanced but restrictive' and 'less advanced but easily jury-rigged together'.

[aniviron]

I'm very very curious about the LRM balance proposal. See, this whole time you've refused to adjust weapon weights because it might break stock configs, even if it meant adjusting downwards for weapons that probably needed it (ac2).

So what changed your mind about keeping everything at a canon weight? Will you go back and adjust IS tech now that the cat is out of the bag? It'd be a bit silly to keep everything in the IS canon, but make it impossible to run a canon Timberwolf or Mad Dog.


I'm also a bit troubled by the very last bit of omnimech customization issues. Some of these restrictions are fine, but particularly making armor and engines forced to stock values is going to seriously limit the number of chassis you see on the field. Right now there are about 0 mechs that don't run maxed or close to maxed armor (with maybe a little off the arms and legs) in any Elo bracket above the very lowest; because of the way convergence works in this game, you can get hit with 30-40 damage in a single spot at an instant, and even if the second doesn't hit you in the same place, you need that armor or you're dead instantly. In TT this wasn't a problem unless you were facing an AC20/uAC20. In this game mechs without high armor counts are dead mechs, and if you release a clan mech without maxed armor and no ability to customize it, nobody will ever play with that mech. Keep in mind that many stock configs come with half of their possible total armor.

It also seems a bit silly to cap engines to their stock ratings when the engine system works very differently in MWO from how it functions in BT. In this game, we don't use a hex grid to move, so there's no worry about making speeds come out to rational numbers when dividing engine over tonnage. As a result, many mechs in MWO can use more efficient engines for their weight than they could in TT. This is doubly true when you consider that MWO's in-engine heatsinks are so much better than their external counterparts that there is almost never any reason to run an engine less than 250-rated if your mech can do it. I would be okay if engines were more restricted, but limiting a mech to its stock engine seems incredibly punitive.

[Deathlike]

For your reference, stock Madcat "Prime?" loadout:
2 ERLRG
2 ERMED
1 MED PULSE (CLAN)
2 MGs
2 LRM20s

5 (E)nergy, 2 LA, 2 RA, 1.... I forgot where it goes
2 (B)allistic, 1 LT, 1 RT (IIRC)
2 (M)issile, 1 LT, 1 RT

Please let me know how the hardpoint system, despite the super large engine (375XL) and 15 DHS would stop you from creating monstrous builds?

Edited by Deathlike, 14 December 2013 - 02:54 PM.