1978 replies to this topic

[Mead]

Jack Gallows, on 14 December 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

You hope. lol

Yeah well

[TELEFORCE]

Jack Gallows, on 14 December 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

You hope. lol

Well they have to or else they will break a lot of canon configurations.

There are so many other stats that can be tweaked for balance purposes besides crits and tonnage. Those are the two things that should stay the same and never be messed around with for total compatibility between canon and MWO. Like I said, soft stats are fair game and the best way to balance the Clan weapons right now.

I think it's a great idea to mess with beam duration when it comes to the superior damage Clan lasers.

Edited by TELEFORCE, 14 December 2013 - 07:20 PM.

[Masterzinja]

I would have thought it would be interesting to switch the IS mechanics for lasers and AC/s for the clan versions. Have the clan lasers do super short duration or instant damage and have the clan AC/s do streams of shots DoT as they are supposed to.

[Aim64C]

Riptor, on 14 December 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

Ever heard of "pre mades"?

Ever heard of a lobby?

There really isn't a 'team' system for this game.

Quote

And think your own model through please. If i pledge my allegiance as a merc to a house like steiner, but decide to drop in a timber wolf i suddenly am fighting for the clans?

Who said you can pledge your allegiance to Steiner?

I certainly have not earned any Loyalty Points. Not that I have any idea what I'd exchange them for.

Quote

What happens when my pals decide to drop in their IS mechs? am i being forced to also choose a IS mech?

Who says you get to choose what team you drop with, anymore?

Perhaps you drop as either Clan or IS - the match-maker has built you a good team.

Quote

Also narrowminded? PGI themselves stated time and time again that they would never limit mechs by factions.. that for your information also includes the clans.

They also stated that they would never implement third person view, coolant flush, or mess with weapon tonnages.

If you go by the lore timeline - the IS is currently getting bent over and boned by the clans. IS techs are still working doggedly to try and understand Clan technology - let alone reverse-engineer or repair it.

Of course, we all forgot about that whole lore/timeline thing.

Quote

Again.. please point to me where in this whole deal it says that these omni mechs are clan exclusive and can only be used by clan players. Cause they arent.

An IS pilot in a Clan mech would be quite the rare thing at this point in time. The closest you would find to this are Wolf's Dragoons.

You are, basically, embodying everything that is wrong with this game - that there is no game.

What is the game, buddy?

Drop into a box canyon and blow the **** out of anything annotated by a red triangle. Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

The Clans are a game-changing part of the lore. When they invaded - they caused the Inner Sphere (the houses which have been senselessly fighting over box canyons... or... well.... that wasn't conveyed very well, now was it?) to stop fighting itself and unite against the invaders who were, currently, trashing them on every front.

And what does PGI do?

"Ah, yeah - let's just put Clan mechs in with all the other ********."

It's like: "Hey, let's make a Fast and Furious about painting cars and forget about street races."

Mix-tech becomes more plausible when you open up to persistent battlefields (remember C&C Renegade's Marathon servers? or Join-in-Progress for games like ARMA?) and then open up the IS weapons to expressing their true variety through custom sub-modules.

You -embrace- the distinctions between the factions and embody them in the game. IS components could have their own module slots that allow pilots to configure their systems to express the huge amount of variety across IS manufacturers. Clan components would not have that ability. Clan mechs would not have modules for their EndoSteel components, their actuator components, engines, etc.

You offset the Clan superiority by giving IS even more 'tweakability' that gives them their own flavor and joy to play - or give a Clan 'mech a reason to use IS components in spite of the increased tonnage, decreased range, etc - because the modules would allow the weapon to perform in ways that Clan components do not.

But, again - balancing from within the bubble of "team solaris" is a fool's errand. I've said it before and made multiple posts about it in the past, regarding how pure mech-on-mech combat within very small maps (even our largest maps are small in terms of weapon ranges, travel times, and objective spacing) leads to very difficult/impossible balancing scenarios. Dropping against a known number of enemies completely undermines the need for scouting. Knowing their objective (and its location) also undermines scouts, and the entire focus of combat gravitates toward heavy and assault mechs.

When you allow ammunition-based weapons to have to extend across an unknown number of enemy encounters (some of which may be light hovercraft that can't be ignored - but aren't worth a gauss) - energy weapons begin to look much more attractive - even though ballistics are excellent mech-killers.

The need for fast skirmishers exists when a team of locusts can route the artillery you are counting on being able to call down - or begin harassing the air base from which you get air support.

Scouting is important when you have to know where to send your slower assaults and heavy supports.

But, keep thinking Call of MechWarrior. The production model has already been illustrated by other ventures to be unsustainable.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

I love this game, just bought the sabre package, and I play almost every day. I gotta say though, this is a step in the wrong direction.

You cannot " balance " the clan mechs. If you try to, not only will game balance be upset, but you will take away what is special from all the clan mechs. I know I wont be buying any if any of the changes you propose come true.

Its simple : Clan vs IS reduce the number of players on the clan team. Why havent you even considered this simple change? YOUR TEAM WONT HAVE TO WASTE TIME TRYING TO BALANCE ANYTHING AND CAN INSTEAD WORK ON CW, WHICH IS WHAT EVERYONE WANTS ANYWAY.

Want to be in an op clan mech? Let us do it, just give us less ppl on our team vs IS so that its balanced. Its so ridiculously simple to just implement it this way and save your resources and development time.

[Sudden Reversal]

DocBach, on 14 December 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

that is literally a rule from the Battletech source material - you also couldn't move the location of items like endo steel/ferro/double heat sinks that were in the base configuration.

They threw the BT source material out a very long time ago regarding this when IS mechs were able to be modified on a whim. Makes no sense that a line of technically superior mechs, whereby the podded nature of the weaponry allowed them to be deployed to the specific requirements of the pilot or mission, have a sub-par version of what the IS have access to in the MWO universe.

Unfortunately, the further we depart from the source material the less and less this is Battletech and more and more becomes FPS with BT skins.

There is no dedication to the spirit of the Battletech universe.

We have place holders and hollow promises.

[Anais Opal]

In regards to the Nova, (I ABSOLUTELY refuse to call it the Black Hawk as that is an actual Inner Sphere design based off the Clan Nova)

It's primary configuration is already nerfed to redundancy due to ghost heat.

12 ER Medium Lasers, can you say instant destruction?

[Riptor]

Aim64C, on 14 December 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

Ever heard of a lobby?

There really isn't a 'team' system for this game.



Who said you can pledge your allegiance to Steiner?

I certainly have not earned any Loyalty Points. Not that I have any idea what I'd exchange them for.



Who says you get to choose what team you drop with, anymore?

Perhaps you drop as either Clan or IS - the match-maker has built you a good team.



They also stated that they would never implement third person view, coolant flush, or mess with weapon tonnages.

If you go by the lore timeline - the IS is currently getting bent over and boned by the clans. IS techs are still working doggedly to try and understand Clan technology - let alone reverse-engineer or repair it.

Of course, we all forgot about that whole lore/timeline thing.



An IS pilot in a Clan mech would be quite the rare thing at this point in time. The closest you would find to this are Wolf's Dragoons.

You are, basically, embodying everything that is wrong with this game - that there is no game.

What is the game, buddy?

Drop into a box canyon and blow the **** out of anything annotated by a red triangle. Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

The Clans are a game-changing part of the lore. When they invaded - they caused the Inner Sphere (the houses which have been senselessly fighting over box canyons... or... well.... that wasn't conveyed very well, now was it?) to stop fighting itself and unite against the invaders who were, currently, trashing them on every front.

And what does PGI do?

"Ah, yeah - let's just put Clan mechs in with all the other ********."

It's like: "Hey, let's make a Fast and Furious about painting cars and forget about street races."

Mix-tech becomes more plausible when you open up to persistent battlefields (remember C&C Renegade's Marathon servers? or Join-in-Progress for games like ARMA?) and then open up the IS weapons to expressing their true variety through custom sub-modules.

You -embrace- the distinctions between the factions and embody them in the game. IS components could have their own module slots that allow pilots to configure their systems to express the huge amount of variety across IS manufacturers. Clan components would not have that ability. Clan mechs would not have modules for their EndoSteel components, their actuator components, engines, etc.

You offset the Clan superiority by giving IS even more 'tweakability' that gives them their own flavor and joy to play - or give a Clan 'mech a reason to use IS components in spite of the increased tonnage, decreased range, etc - because the modules would allow the weapon to perform in ways that Clan components do not.

But, again - balancing from within the bubble of "team solaris" is a fool's errand. I've said it before and made multiple posts about it in the past, regarding how pure mech-on-mech combat within very small maps (even our largest maps are small in terms of weapon ranges, travel times, and objective spacing) leads to very difficult/impossible balancing scenarios. Dropping against a known number of enemies completely undermines the need for scouting. Knowing their objective (and its location) also undermines scouts, and the entire focus of combat gravitates toward heavy and assault mechs.

When you allow ammunition-based weapons to have to extend across an unknown number of enemy encounters (some of which may be light hovercraft that can't be ignored - but aren't worth a gauss) - energy weapons begin to look much more attractive - even though ballistics are excellent mech-killers.

The need for fast skirmishers exists when a team of locusts can route the artillery you are counting on being able to call down - or begin harassing the air base from which you get air support.

Scouting is important when you have to know where to send your slower assaults and heavy supports.

But, keep thinking Call of MechWarrior. The production model has already been illustrated by other ventures to be unsustainable.

What the flying pig are you rambling on about?

And why do you blame me?

It is not my decision to sell clan mechs to IS pilots.

It is not my decision to not limit mechs by faction.

I had zero input in any of it JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE

But somehow i am related to everything thats wrong with the game.. EVEN THOUGHT I HAD ZERO INPUT? Whatever youre smoking man you should smoke less of it.

HOWEVER, i am able to read what PGI actually writes down.

Nothing right now keeps me from buying both IS and clan mechs without having to pledge allegiance to clan or IS.

In CW you will be able to play lone wolf, merc or faction. None of these options will prevent you from using your clan mechs. All games will count towards CW. Again this is all stuff that was written up by PGI themselves. I didnt told them to do it that way!

Again what the heck are you even babbling about, your entire post makes no sense what so freaking ever.

First im being attacked for not envisioning community warfare "properly"

Now im being attacked for pointing out the problems that it would cause if you made clan mechs clan only like some people suggest should happen?

Could you make up your bloody mind please?

And honestly.. you really believe that when CW will come around, anything will actually change about how drops go down?

NEWSFLASH!

Lobbies are not going to replace the drop button, private matches will not net you any XP or cbills. Lone wolfs who are completly capable of owning both IS and clan mechs will still be able to group up in 4 mans and hit the launch button.

Its time you and the rest of people like you finaly wake up and realize that your wishfull thinking about how it should be has absolutely nothing to do with how things really are.

PGI is not going to limit access to mechs based on factions CW or not.

They have said they are going to split ques between factions when CW comes around.

And you think they are going to water down the allready dwindling player base even further down by seperating clan omnis and battlemechs even thought theres nothing preventing people from grouping up with 2 clan mechs and 2 IS mechs as an example?

Edited by Riptor, 14 December 2013 - 07:43 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

How can you make LRM/20s 7 tons when a ton of Clan mechs come with them stock? Unless of course you over ton them all.

[Anais Opal]

Lucian Nostra, on 14 December 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

How can you make LRM/20s 7 tons when a ton of Clan mechs come with them stock? Unless of course you over ton them all.

Hehe yeah, the Timber Wolf would have to be 80 tons instead of the usual 75. Or lose 4 tons of armour...

Edited by GlycerineOxide, 14 December 2013 - 07:43 PM.

[Prc]

hue

[Aim64C]

GlycerineOxide, on 14 December 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

In regards to the Nova, (I ABSOLUTELY refuse to call it the Black Hawk as that is an actual Inner Sphere design based off the Clan Nova)

It's primary configuration is already nerfed to redundancy due to ghost heat.

12 ER Medium Lasers, can you say instant destruction?

You know, for the sake of experimentation - it would be interesting to equip that thing with 12 ER Small Pulse Lasers. I'm not sure if Ghost Heat affects those, as well - but I can only imagine the steel-shearing potential of that mech once it gets within range.

Though the range of the ER meds might be a better bet in the end (if you could volley-fire correctly).

[Kanatta Jing]

I like this. Clan mechs are going to be glass cannons.

[Kell Morgan]

I greatly understand what your trying to do but I think a different way to go about it would have been make clan tech hard to get! Think of it a little differently. Think of this game more as a time waster like world of warcraft.

If you made the clan tech or heavier mechs rare or hard to come by I would be playing ALOT more! right now my rewards are cbills and experience..... ok? but wheres the challenge? I can just get out my best mech and simply farm for cbills?

Now if for instance there was a loot system that after a match there was a "roll" for different tiered loot (maybe influenced by performance) you could get good scrap for loot! Possibly use a few cbills to fix it back up.

You could still sell mechs for MC and some basic models for c bills. As long as everything is reasonably available in game with enough hard work most people wouldn't cry pay to win.

That being said the "epic loot or scrap" could and WOULD be more powerful than what you can buy with cbills. As long as we have the player base for it you could have match maker linked with a Battle value system so people with epic scrap aren't playing against stock varients.

I think I would be finding myself playing this game ALOT more often in that case! You would have something to work for other than cbills and XP. You could also please alot of the TT fans by keeping stock values for weapons. It would take some testing but as long as there was a battle value system and people who are playing "geared up" mechs are playing against each other and not a 2 SL locust.... I think you would be surprised at the different direction this game would turn to.

[ReXspec]

SEDKJGFHADF;LKGJHADFGV;LK,

What Mr. Inouye is not understanding is that yes, although certain weapons systems (I'm not saying all) in the inner sphere were made obsolete by Clan Tech, you can't make EVERY weapon system in the game viable competitively by mercilessly swinging the nerf bat around to every piece of clan tech! It's simply unrealistic!

If you REALLY want to balance Clan tech vs. inner-sphere tech, remove the convoluted ghost heat mechanics from the inner-sphere weapons, and place them on Clan weapons. Canonically speaking, clan weapons naturally run hotter then IS weapons, so, to deal with this, clan double heat sinks are used to MITIGATE this problem--not eliminate it altogether. In addition to the fact that Clan warriors are trained specifically in the intricacies of heat management. That and make clan tech more expensive is the easiest way I can see in balancing clan tech.

[Agent KI7KO]

Hi PGI.

Why can't you remove/install ferro/endo? I am ok with not being able to move them but not ok with not being able to install/remove them. Please don't screw with LRM-20 tonnage. I am not ok with not being able to move heatsinks. I am ok with not being able to change engines. I am okay with not being able to tweak armor.

Ghost heat is the worst idea ever. Please remove and use community's convergence idea instead. Fix LRMs and SRMs. Where is UI 2.0? Where is Community Warfare?

I will not pay anymore money or buy clan stuff until any of these in the previous paragraph are fixed.

Actually nevermind, I'm not playing anymore until those demands are met.

Edited by Afoxi, 14 December 2013 - 07:56 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

*sigh*

[Milocinia]

You do know that absolute EVERY suggestion you make about balancing clan tech will go unanswered. Paul Inouye will (as he has proven numerous times before) ONLY go with his own disastrous "balancing" and convoluted mechanics.

[GalaxyBluestar]

and what remains cannot be customized at all. These include:

• The engine type and rating
  
• The number and placement of a minimum number of heatsinks
  
• The amount and distribution of armor
  
• The armor type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Ferro-Fibrous
  
• The internal structure type and the location of any critical slots occupied by Endo Steel
  
• Enhancements such as MASC
  
• The occasional weapon or other piece of equipment (e.g. jump jets) that is included as part of the base configuration

thank you for totally screwing over clanners, not only are you nerfing their weapons, and nerfing omni modules by limiting them to varients available but they'll hardly be customisable AT ALL you know customisation. THE ENITRE SELL POINT OF THIS GIMCIKY TRAVISTY OF A BATTLETECH GAME!


you just burned you cash grab deal to ashes... have a nice day.

GG cloths

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 14 December 2013 - 07:57 PM.

[Devil Fox]

Kanatta Jing, on 14 December 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

I like this. Clan mechs are going to be glass cannons.

Until you're headshot by an Uller mounting a guass rifle from across the map...