242 replies to this topic

[xMintaka]

Myomes, on 02 January 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

Let me put it this way: The disadvantages of assault mechs can be completely nullified by good formation control and proper friendly covering. The advantages of medium mechs can be completely nullified by the other side having good formation control and proper friendly covering. In both cases, you're left with a superior firepower and armor force vs an inferior one.

You are completely correct here on both counts, but you neglect to mention a fundamental flaw in a 12 Assault drop.

They can't react fast enough to a correctly executed flank, nor can they cover their own base should a cap happen.

A well piloted Medium can also disrupt even the best formation in a PUG game. No one wants to take 30/50 point alpha's to the back, so they're turn round. Play it right and you can get three to four times the tonnage turning to face your Medium. Thus reducing the firepower facing your Heavy and Assault mechs, and. quite possibly, opening up their rear CT to your guns. A Light can do that, yes, and arguably more effectively. But the Medium can also return to bolster a firing line, should it be needed. The Light, not so much.


Granted, without weight balancing, you'd be better off in a 60 ton mech that moves at 100kph than a 50 tonner, but those of us that are masochistic enough to get our kicks out of running around in underpowered mechs shouldn't have to contend with people trying to force us to play the way they want.

You're here to have fun, I'm here to have fun. I might have fun running around in a Locust (I do). Would I be more effective in a Jenner? Yes, undoubtedly, the stats speak for themselves. But the Locust is more fun. Which is something I feel that not many people playing this game seem to understand.

With regards to your Flamer analogy, fine. Consider yourself down a mech from the start. Suck it up for one drop (maybe 10 minutes at most?) then move on.


As a final note, once weight balancing does come in, all you die-hard Carrylander and Fatlas pilots are going to start crying when you have to downsize your mech due to too much tonnage on the team. Let the Medium pilots practice, and maybe you'll be able to stay in your "ubermech of doom".


I can't believe this is even a discussion, truly. It's a game that we all play to relax and have fun with some buddies. If it was real and lives were at stake, then fine you have a reason to complain. But now? It's laughable.

[Myomes]

Like I said, proper formation. If you have 12 assaults in proper formation, they cant execute any flanks, but neither can you flank them. each cell of assaults can watch the right side of the one's they're following, and all three cells can then be responsible for 120 degrees of protection on the flank of the cell in front and to the left of them, thus you have assault level firepower protecting the flank at all times and being able to assist in forward attack as well.

[Voivode]

Pilot skill matters to a huge degree in this game. Piling on tonnage is a common way to cover for lack of skill.

Myomes, on 02 January 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Like I said, proper formation. If you have 12 assaults in proper formation, they cant execute any flanks, but neither can you flank them. each cell of assaults can watch the right side of the one's they're following, and all three cells can then be responsible for 120 degrees of protection on the flank of the cell in front and to the left of them, thus you have assault level firepower protecting the flank at all times and being able to assist in forward attack as well.

Queue the artillery strikes on that team.

[xMintaka]

Myomes, on 02 January 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Like I said, proper formation. If you have 12 assaults in proper formation, they cant execute any flanks, but neither can you flank them. each cell of assaults can watch the right side of the one's they're following, and all three cells can then be responsible for 120 degrees of protection on the flank of the cell in front and to the left of them, thus you have assault level firepower protecting the flank at all times and being able to assist in forward attack as well.

They can't cover behind themselves. It doesn't take long for a lance of 100kph mechs to get behind 50/60kph mechs. Strike, then run before they can turn to face you. Rinse and repeat.

Or, wait for them to get a decent way across the map, and rush their cap.

[NuclearPanda]

I'm just going to pop back in here again because I still disagree with you Myomes, even after a few more pages of ranting on both sides from multiple people.

I would say that in the current state of the game EVERY MECH HAS A CHANCE TO BE A BAD MECH.

What it boils down to is simple pilot skill. You can be an absolutely {Scrap} pilot and be in an assault mech with superior firepower and still be {Scrap}.

You can't really use "perfect world scenarios" in your arguments right now like you have been. What I mean by this is you can't take the idea of a 12 man Assault drop, all in perfect formation, all knowing perfectly how to use their weapons to max effectiveness (ranges, pinpoint damage, etc) and theoretically put them up against a 12 man Medium drop. It just will never happen that way.

I theorize however that in an "imperfect world scenario", like we have right now with every drop you will ever make within this game, that Mediums are an absolutely viable and dare I say vital resource.

This will only be solidified more with the incoming weight restrictions.

I would like you to acknowledge that your "perfect world scenario" is not realistic in any sense, and that a GOOD pilot currently in a Medium has a signifigant chance of doing a fantastic job and contributing much needed skills into each match.

If you will do that then I will acknowledge that placing a team of equally skilled Mediums against this mystical perfect formation of perfect pilots with perfect firepower along with perfect coordniation has a greater than 50% chance of losing to them.

Cheers.

[jper4]

Myomes, on 02 January 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

but you're putting them an assault mech short, to use your analogy. Which in itself is actively reducing your team's chances.

Since we've established that you think teamkilling is wrong, what about flamer boats? The most useless "for fun" mech design you can make. Sure, you'll be having fun, but you actively reduced your team's "serious/assault' mech possible limit. I have yet to hear any of you guys explain just how or why something with half the weapons and half the armor is as valuable or useable.
.

but if the person is a lousy assault pilot having an extra 50 tons on your side is neutralized by the fact the person behind the mech isn't using it effectively. but put that same person in a lighter mech that they are comfortable with and suddenly you have a productive teammate. how would a badly piloted assault mech be more useful/viable than a well piloted medium?

as for flamers, yes they aren't very effective at doing much BUT, they can blind the enemy pilot so he can't see the guy with actual weapons to shoot at until the flames go away, giving the flamer's teammate free shots at him.

to turn it back around, how about the heavy/assault pilot that strips their armor down to next to nothing so they can get the biggest alpha they can cram in, overheat, take forever to cool down and get picked apart in the meantime. that one shot crippling alpha might be fun (if they hit) but it hurts the team's chances of winning by not being able to keep up with the rest of the team (making you 11 vs 12 while they're trying to cool down unless the whole team waits for it making you sitting ducks for artillery or any enemy flanking movements) or resist any fire of the enemy all assault team (as we're talking assault vs. assault)

[Fang01]

Jody Von Jedi, on 31 December 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

I just did a drop with Myomes. He scored 300 and died in his Atlas. I scored 500 dmg and 2 kills and survived until the end of the match. We won and I was driving a Treb! Take that Myomes.

He likes his own posts too

[aakek]

Honestly there are so many factors which change how viable things are that this is hard to discuss. I have mastered every medium mech and I have seen a few different things.

- Mediums as a whole have lost part of their edge in mobility as many heavier mechs are able to reach higher speeds now.
- Mediums are pretty missile/laser heavy in general which impacts play in the current ACmeta
- I feel many maps are more balanced with 8 instead of the 12 we now have which makes it harder on mediums
- Weight Balancing I've seen games where it was 2 vs 8 assaults but that isn't always a deciding factor

One thing that has been discussed and would help many issues is revisiting repair and rearm. It does not have to be ludicrous amounts what was seen prior.

Your going to see widely varying results particularly as a medium based on WHEN and who you play with. This comes down to differences in regional play styles.

[DAYLEET]

Myomes, on 02 January 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Like I said, proper formation. If you have 12 assaults in proper formation, they cant execute any flanks, but neither can you flank them. each cell of assaults can watch the right side of the one's they're following, and all three cells can then be responsible for 120 degrees of protection on the flank of the cell in front and to the left of them, thus you have assault level firepower protecting the flank at all times and being able to assist in forward attack as well.

We will see how well your indestructible assault formation hold together when artillery and bombs start raining on your perimeter.

[Onlystolen]

Medium Mechs; God Darn Useless.......... More Useless then an Atlas DDC

[Barkem Squirrel]

I had not played mediums until the shadowhawk, griffon and the Wolverine. They all changed what I thought about mediums. They have the speed to get away, flank, and enough weapons to make an assault think twice about ignoring them. Now I am running the mediums a little over half the time. You still have those matches where it seems that the entire enemy team is there to greet you, but still you have those matches with 4 kills, many assists and over 500 damage.

I think the key with these is the speed. If they can not hit you, they can not harm you.

[NuclearPanda]

Barkem Squirrel, on 02 January 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

I think the key with these is the speed. If they can not hit you, they can not harm you.

Speed is definitely key in pretty much anything less than a Heavy. You're absolutely correct, and it's mostly about knowing your role.

Some of the most fun that I have is in my Wolverine, doing almost 120kph, and alphastriking 5xML's over and over without ever fearing overheating. The thing is a beast, so the Wolverine name is appropriate.

[Rekkless]

because shadowhawk!

[Fang01]

Seen Myomes today in a trenchbucket. He died first. Maybe trying to prove his point?

[Navy Sixes]

Myomes, on 02 January 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Like I said, proper formation. If you have 12 assaults in proper formation, they cant execute any flanks, but neither can you flank them. each cell of assaults can watch the right side of the one's they're following, and all three cells can then be responsible for 120 degrees of protection on the flank of the cell in front and to the left of them, thus you have assault level firepower protecting the flank at all times and being able to assist in forward attack as well.

You play parade drill and take the time to get a 12-assault solo PUG team to stand in "proper formation." Let alone move in proper formation. If there's a prem on your team add extra time arguing with them while they laugh at you and roll out. You'll be down two assaults and the timer will have run out (you lose!) by the time you are ready to fight.

[Void Angel]

Dazzer, on 27 December 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

Hello all,

Today while PUG-íng I was told at the start of the match that my Medium Mech (Hunchback 4P) was not welcome in the team. That I should play a heavy or assault or a light.

Then that my medium was in fact a liability to the team.

Has any one else had this please ? its was rather nasty.

Stupid people are often nasty. Deep down they feel their inadequacy in the face of ideas and thoughts that others absorb and manipulate with ease - this causes them shame, and so they project their own stupidity onto others so that they can rail against it. It's how they sleep at night.

I've seen high-end 12-man teams use mediums to great effect - and in PuG games I've often used Mediums myself. It's not uncommon to pull down 400-500 damage with multiple kills with my ShadowHawk, and my Hunchback SP is effective as well. People who are claiming that you can only be effective with other weight classs simply do not understand how to pilot their mediums.

In short, both their hostility and their opinion likely stem from their own inadequecies - they have little to do with you, and should be discounted appropriately. =)

[IraqiWalker]

Dazzer, on 27 December 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

Hello all,

Today while PUG-íng I was told at the start of the match that my Medium Mech (Hunchback 4P) was not welcome in the team. That I should play a heavy or assault or a light.

Then that my medium was in fact a liability to the team.

Has any one else had this please ? its was rather nasty.

I don't know how long you've been playing this game, but of all the mediums, the Hunchback is definitely the one that should be mocked the least. Those things are beasts combining great mobility with terrifying fire power. One of my friends plays nothing but hunchies. His average damage is 800 (better than many assault and heavy pilots) and usually walks off with about 4 kills or more under his belt. 1 Hunchie, wipes out an entire lance.

There are many mechs that can be optimized for one role or another, but in all honesty, I have yet to see a mech that is "bad" (not even the locust is bad) it's always the pilots.

If someone gives you that kind of attitude, I'd say screen cap it for the record, if they get nasty report them. If not, just prove them wrong. They picked the worst weight class to mess with. The mediums are the most versatile mechs in the entire game.

I know what I'm talking about, I've been playing this game since MW3 was new, and did Table top as well. As a light mech specialist I can safely say that the only weight class I have problems wrecking in my Commando is mediums. I'd rather face off against assaults and heavies instead of mediums.

[IraqiWalker]

Myomes, on 02 January 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Like I said, proper formation. If you have 12 assaults in proper formation, they cant execute any flanks, but neither can you flank them. each cell of assaults can watch the right side of the one's they're following, and all three cells can then be responsible for 120 degrees of protection on the flank of the cell in front and to the left of them, thus you have assault level firepower protecting the flank at all times and being able to assist in forward attack as well.

You won't need flanking maneuvers to annihilate a formation like that.

Do you know what I would need to completely annihilate that entire assault force? 5 commando 2Ds(any other variant can work, but I have a thing for ECM), and one LRM boat. Not even joking, each one with 1 arty,1 airstrike, and 1 UAV. the artys and airstrikes will pound your assaults fast for tons of damage, I can do over 120kph while strapping an ERPPC or ERLL to the lights and peel those mechs open like a banana without them catching me. Once the formation breaks because one or two of the assaults suffered critical existence failure from 5 ERPPCs (or LLs) to the face/CT. I will run one of the commandos in (don't care if they die at this point) launch a UAV that your assaults can hit because they don't bend that way, and watch the LRM boat roastify what's left.

1200 tons turned to scrap, by 185 tons (going with CAT A1 for LRM boat here) could upgrade to a Stalker or Battlemaster LRM boat and win faster. I won't even need good pilots for this, they don't need to hold a formation or anything like that. They don't even need teamspeak for this. The whole thing can be coordinated within the start screen. They just need to run and shoot, plus throwing an arty or airstrike every once in a while.

Also, keep in mind that assaults are really slow, by the time they get to the halfway point on the map it's already been 5 minutes. On the other hand, anything lighter than them can out-kite them and bring on the hurt with proper focused fire in a concave formation, while this spherical formation of yours struggles because they can only apply at max 30% of their firepower at any point in time.

Not forgetting that it's about 4 times harder for the assaults to hit a light mech, while it's about 4 times easier for the lights to hit an assault with surgical precision.

[Amsro]

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 03 January 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Seen Myomes today in a trenchbucket. He died first. Maybe trying to prove his point?

Hah can't even play a Trebuchet properly.

I'm still of the opinion that Myomes has created this new account.

Possibly because the old one was "too high" an Elo bracket. Can't be sure though.

Far too meta brainwashed to have only been here 3 weeks.

[ColdPsyker1]

Yeah, I am one of those "terrible at anything heavier than a medium"

Even on a bad game with my hunchback(s), I still do more damage/kills/assists than I do in my battlemasters/awesomes/thunderbolts.

Generally I run as backup to any lights that are on our team. I go slightly slower, but carry more firepower. Once the lights have engaged, I catch up and add 8 medium lasers to the firefight. A good game nets me in the 700+ damage range (haven't quite broken a 1000 yet)

And shadowhawks... Fear me if you see me in a shadowhawk