94 replies to this topic

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Some facts to consider:

-People whined about my formerly favourite mech the Catapult K2 so the devs neutered its torso twist and nerfed is two useful builds (dual ac/20 and dual gauss)
-People whined about the Catapult A1 so the devs nerfed it so many times (massively reduced twist, SRM ghost heat, giant arm hitboxes) such that it's now one of the worst mechs in the game
-People whined about Hunchbacks so the devs came up with the engine cap limit (not something I'm opposed to, but the point still stands) and later made the 9 ML hunchback suffer from ghost heat
-People whined about my Ravens so the devs screwed with their hitboxes and made the non-3L variants which I used to love absolutely useless
-People whined about Spiders so the devs mucked with them recently too (jury's still out on the effect)
-People whined about ECM so the devs nerfed the acceleration speed on the only good Cicada, the 3M. Formerly one of my favourite mechs, now pretty useless

So my question is, why is the newest cheese machine the Shadowhawk being allowed to run rampant as a complete package that usually scores near the top of every match? It is fast, has jump jets, very good (broken?) hit boxes and is able to carry every combo of weapons know to man.

Where are its balance nerfs in the sake of fairness?

Now I'm sure one of the first comments will be: "PGI should buff the other mechs, not nerf the ones that work". Fine. Let's start by un-nerfing all my old mechs above. I had the sense not to hand any more money over to PGI for Project Phoenix so I'd like to see my old stable of mechs regain their usefulness.

A similar comment will be: "But mediums need love!" Well the Shadowhawk is only 5 tons short of a heavy - it bearly even classifies as a medium. The Dragon and Quickdraw surely need a lot more love than the heavy mediums we've been getting. Where was people's concern for mediums when the Cicada 3M was nerfed?

For further proof of Shadowhawk superiority, just look at the new hero Hunchback which is completley outclassed by the Shadowhawk in every way save profile size (not much of a factor when jump jets allow the SH to continuously mess with hit detection, hence its legendary survivability).

Deep down everyone knows this mech is at least partly OP. It's why we frequently see premades running packs of 4 of them, especially in Conquest.

.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 09 January 2014 - 10:16 PM.

[Nauht]

I'm sure there's a scientific term for skewing legitimate problems into your false argument but I cbf trying to recall what it's called.

[FupDup]

Honestly, I think that the Shad is the first medium that actually lives up to what mediums *should* be. It has good durability, good maneuverability, and very versatile weapon options. It's the ultimate jack of all trades, but it still usually gets beaten by a well-built heavy or assault in direct fights.

A medium that isn't completely inferior to mechs 65 tons and over? In MY Mechwarrior? It's more likely than you think.

Edited by FupDup, 09 January 2014 - 10:15 PM.

[sokitumi]

Why are you even asking logical questions like this to team awesome anymore, here in 2014? [Redacted]

Edited by Niko Snow, 10 January 2014 - 07:58 AM.
Unconstructive Insults removed

[luxebo]

Instead of nerfing Shads, buff the rest of the mediums. They need help. Plus buff some of the lighter Heavies and the Awesome and the Locust and Commando and we've got a decent balance.

[Noesis]

I have to say this is just ..... *head goes boom*

Mediums have been the games pinata since the start of MWO with size, speed and other weapon related issues. This is still the case in today's game.

So MWO gets insurgent Mechs that can at least try and fill some kind of medium roles with the 55 tonners and now people simply want to nerf them?!

If anything they need improving with a reduced model size. And some of their weapon choices completely fixed. Then they will be in a "not so bad" place.

[Navy Sixes]

And now you (sorry if I missed the other threads, yours are the only complaints I've seen so far) are whining about the Shadowhawk, so it should be nerfed?

Show us on the paper doll where the bad shawk touched you.

[FupDup]

Tycho von Gagern, on 09 January 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

And now you (sorry if I missed the other threads, yours are the only complaints I've seen so far) are whining about the Shadowhawk, so it should be nerfed?

Show us on the paper doll where the bad shawk touched you.

*Points to rear center torso*

[Truesight]

Well, if all your old mechs would still be good, you do not need to buy new ones!

They just want to make money.

[Thorqemada]

Is the Shadow Hawk then an Assault Mech bcs it is as big?

[OneEyed Jack]

So..... you only play stuff that's FOTM-broken, because you know it's broken, and don't like when PGI finally cottons on and does something about it?

The SHawk is popular because it's versatile. One variant or another can fill almost any role someone would want to fill with a medium, but it doesn't do it by carrying game-breaking cheese loads, or having broken hit-boxes that ignore damage, or having a 360 arc of fire. In fact it doesn't do anything special at all. It just has the most versatility of one of the most popular tonnages for building mechs in the history of BT/MW.

I can see why you dislike it so much, though.... no I-WIN button.

[Rushin Roulette]

Umm... How the heck are the hitboxes broken for the Shadow Hawk?

OK. You can have some amazing rounds with them if you play smart and minimize damage or targeting exposure... but that Assault mech sizes torso with medium Mech armour is an Alpha magnet... I dont know how many times Ive been playing one with light yellow torso Armour only to be WTFlolled onto the Damage list screen with one of the torso sections including the complete internals exploded right into tomorrow within seconds of being in the crosshairs of any high alpha Heavy/Assault mech

Do you want to change the mech so that the armour fits to the size, or would you rather the size were changed to fit the armour rating?.

[Blurry]

luxebo, on 09 January 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Instead of nerfing Shads, buff the rest of the mediums. They need help. Plus buff some of the lighter Heavies and the Awesome and the Locust and Commando and we've got a decent balance.

How does fixing old mechs make PGI money? It doesnt. SO wait for new ones to be released and buy those. We all know the balance is around what is selling at that particular time so whatever is it will be made viable.

Remember - buy frequently and buy often
otherwise you just dont love the game and PGIGP.

[Joseph Mallan]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 09 January 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

Now I'm sure one of the first comments will be: "PGI should buff the other mechs, not nerf the ones that work". Fine. Let's start by un-nerfing all my old mechs above. I had the sense not to hand any more money over to PGI for Project Phoenix so I'd like to see my old stable of mechs regain their usefulness.

Yes, lets. I never had problems killing Pults in any flavor. The reason some of your older models are complained about is cause they had lots of HP (A1), and the K2 was players showing they could think outside the box, I for one applauded the thinking of ACs over PCs on the primarily Missile Chassis. It showed that ingenuity was not dead. I was personally upset with myself that I hadn't thought of them 28 years ago!

[Mystere]

Folks, you are probably being trolled.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I saw this well typed out message from the OP and all I can see is...

I don't like Shadowhawks so the devs should nerf them.

Really, Shadowhawks are cheese builds, REALLY? I'm starting to think some people wouldn't be happy unless MWO had one mech and one gun with one engine to choose from and no heat.

[Joseph Mallan]

MeiSooHaityu, on 10 January 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

I saw this well typed out message from the OP and all I can see is...

I don't like Shadowhawks so the devs should nerf them.

Really, Shadowhawks are cheese builds, REALLY? I'm starting to think some people wouldn't be happy unless MWO had one mech and one gun with one engine to choose from and no heat.

They'd still complain cause my Ride is Blue and they hate blue. Blue is OP so ban that color!

[MeiSooHaityu]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

They'd still complain cause my Ride is Blue and they hate blue. Blue is OP so ban that color!

I think I saw that in an upcoming patch note.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 10 January 2014 - 04:34 AM.

[Mechteric]

The shadow hawks already have terrible torso twist angle, I think this is another case of someone only looking at the symptom (lots of shadows hawks doing really well as jump snipers) versus the cause (brawlers aren't very good meta right now). I can almost guarantee that if SRMs were as good as they should be you'd be seeing a lot more of the other mechs that can mount a lot of them and go fast to close in to brawling range (wolverine, griffon, centurion, trebuchet, quickdraw)

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 10 January 2014 - 05:59 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

CapperDeluxe, on 10 January 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

The shadow hawks already have terrible torso twist angle, I think this is another case of someone only looking at the symptom (lots of shadows hawks doing really well as jump snipers) versus the cause (brawlers aren't very good meta right now). I can almost guarantee that if SRMs were as good as they should be you'd be seeing a lot more of the other mechs that can mount a lot of them and go fast to close in to brawling range (wolverine, griffon, centurion, trebuchet, quickdraw)

The thing that bugs me, I don't use my S-Hawk as a jump sniper. I typically run the 2D2 with UAC5, 2MLas and 4 Streaks. It's just flat out fun.

It's more of a brawler, and tends to do better again medium's and light's. But once again it's just fun.

I wish regular SRM's worked so I could swap out the Streaks for more punch.

But there is nothing at all wrong with this mech at all.