511 replies to this topic

[PanzerMagier]

Why are so many players arguing like a bunch of halfwit {Surat} in this thread?
Why can't we have BOTH?!

Make it a ******* OPTION to SELECT pug only game/pre-made only game.
if the MM takes too long find games, you can always just UNTICK the bloody option.

In no manner does this split the playerbase whatsoever, people can decide if they want to spend quality over quantity time in MWO.

MWO forums, stupidity and hubris united...

Edited by PanzerMagier, 03 February 2014 - 10:29 AM.

[Iskareot]

PanzerMagier, on 03 February 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

Why are so many players arguing like a bunch of halfwit {Surat} in this thread?
Why can't we have BOTH?!

Make it a ******* OPTION to SELECT pug only game/pre-made only game.
if the MM takes too long find games, you can always just UNTICK the bloody option.

In no manner does this split the playerbase whatsoever, people can decide if they want to spend quality over quantity time in MWO.

MWO forums, stupidity and hubris united...

Because sometimes using logic in this thread is not allowed. I agree 100%. No need to hate either offer both and see what happens. Now, if this goes wrong they can always change it but I have this real feeling that it is NOT what everyone thinks. If Solo players were given a choice to drop into a even match with other solo players something tells me they would. Now, this would do a few things.. One, it would anger the premade only people due to the fact they now realize not everyone wants to be part of that. They will also realize it may take a minute longer to be matched against other premade only with the optional filler from the solo que. In the end the truth would come out that people want to enjoy the game in either way and not be forced into one or the other. That alone could change the game sadly as we know it.

Imagine if 80% of the playerbase wanted to be solo most of the time? Oh man... that would screw this up. BUT then again what if people realized to play as a team they needed to work together as a premade group?

In the end I think it is very logical and wise for PGI to give a simple option vs continued forcing of solo into premades. Sooner or later they will lose enough people they will do it. I just don't see them keeping it this way forever.

[Sandpit]

PGI has made several adjustments to groups, elo, MM, and other things to cater to PUGs. At some point you can do no more. Stomps are going to exist. They're never going to be completely eradicated because it's simply not possible. It's not always a matter of premades, mm, elo, etc. sometimes it's just simply playing poorly.

Separate queues is obviously not in the cards (based on the fact that after several adjustments to other areas over the years and it still not being implemented) so it's time for people to come up with different ideas instead of posting a "new" thread discussing the "new" idea of separate queues.

Edited by Sandpit, 03 February 2014 - 12:04 PM.

[Iskareot]

Also thanks to everyone for the response on this thread... there is very good comments and let it be known it has been seen by many. I think there is room to grow and there is a lot of logic in this thread and not just - snide comments. I think it has been heard and from what I understand there is talk of some sort of system maybe. Not sure what that means though.

I think the important thing I wanted to stress was the fact people would like a choice... NOT forced gameplay type. At least attempt it. See how it plays out. Hey if no solo player wants to que in a solo drop then nothing is lost. BUT... if they do then well things will change for all players I would think.

[Iskareot]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

PGI has made several adjustments to groups, elo, MM, and other things to cater to PUGs. At some point you can do no more. Stomps are going to exist. They're never going to be completely eradicated because it's simply not possible. It's not always a matter of premades, mm, elo, etc. sometimes it's just simply playing poorly.

Separate queues is obviously not in the cards (based on the fact that after several adjustments to other areas over the years and it still not being implemented) so it's time for people to come up with different ideas instead of posting a "new" thread discussing the "new" idea of separate queues.

Thats like saying the player base this year was the same as last years... not to mention being in so called beta or even the new UI2.0. They will always be working on MM and ELO just based on the changes to game play, adding maps, changing weapons and how they work... so thats kinda a moot point.

As far as CHANGE coming to offer different ways to drop? No that can still happen make no mistake it can. Or this thread would have been deleted by now. I have gotton good response on this thread and actually see some good points and logic used. Just because change doesn't look good to you- does not mean it cannot happen. I still have hope... before we lose more solo players I do.

[Sandpit]

Iskareot, on 03 February 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

Thats like saying the player base this year was the same as last years... not to mention being in so called beta or even the new UI2.0. They will always be working on MM and ELO just based on the changes to game play, adding maps, changing weapons and how they work... so thats kinda a moot point.

As far as CHANGE coming to offer different ways to drop? No that can still happen make no mistake it can. Or this thread would have been deleted by now. I have gotton good response on this thread and actually see some good points and logic used. Just because change doesn't look good to you- does not mean it cannot happen. I still have hope... before we lose more solo players I do.

sigh

What I'm saying is how about come up with a new idea instead of starting threads rehashing the same old idea. A "new" thread talking about separating queues is not "new". What I suggested was think of ways to balance that OTHER than separating queues.
I've pointed out several examples of PGI making changes to help out PUGs. So they obviously are trying different things to help alleviate stomps in PUGs. They have not, at any time, mentioned separating queues, they have, however, mentioned a few times why that isn't feasible and haven't done so. So instead of trying the same key that didn't work 6 months ago, I'm suggesting switching to another key and trying that.

The other thing to consider is that no matter how much some may want to think so they aren't the only players in this game. That goes for both sides. In this case though, separate queues has never garnered much support other than the usual suspects on both sides gaining a few more supporters on both sides when a "new" thread pops up.

For whatever reason, PGI has not made this change. Whether that be player population, too much trouble, opinion of it being a bad idea, just not wanting to do it, etc. So don't you think it might be time to come up with some new ideas on how to help the situation instead of posting "separate queues" and arguing in circles with the same people on both sides over and over again? That's my point.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

sigh

What I'm saying is how about come up with a new idea instead of starting threads rehashing the same old idea.

I have an idea? If you don't like rehashing a subject just don't click on the thread. Its an open forum which means you have no say about content or placement. That' s what mods are for. Are you a mod? Or do you just desire to be one?

Many people here are sick of your little brigade acting like they ave some ownership and your constantly acting the role of bully in charge.

You make you point on a dozen threads a day. I think we all got it by now.

[Roadbeer]

Mudhutwarrior, on 03 February 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

I have an idea? If you don't like rehashing a subject just don't click on the thread. Its an open forum which means you have no say about content or placement. That' s what mods are for. Are you a mod? Or do you just desire to be one?

Many people here are sick of your little brigade acting like they ave some ownership and your constantly acting the role of bully in charge.

You make you point on a dozen threads a day. I think we all got it by now.

MAAAAAAAAAAAA
Bullies are making me feel bad again!

[Mudhutwarrior]

Poetic!

They will never get it but they do like to expose themselves a lot.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 January 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Perception is reality.

You obviously have no clue how stupid that sounds. You were caught flat out running your mouth about something you had not read, and just don't want to admit it. Instead you want to shift the blame. Kind of like when you lose in MWO.....

Mudhutwarrior, on 31 January 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

Again Joe, How is it a team oriented game when you can only drop as four and cant readily communicate with the rest?

Only teams are in 12 mans. the rest are Mobs. Some gang bangers and some pugs.

At some point you have to reason this out.

Same to you. It's a team based based game. The fact that you can "only" chat via txt doesn't change that you win or lose as a team. Therefore it's a team based game.

At some you have to reason this out. Actually, you don't. Unfortunately it isn't painful to hold the wrong belief since you seem to be immune to shame.

Khobai, on 01 February 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

Everyone who pugs would choose that option. The only people who dont want that are the ones abusing 4mans.



Exactly. Its an advantage premades have that pugs dont have. If we had in-voice chat and the ability to see eachothers loadouts it would be a non-issue.

Yes its a team game. But allowing certain players to play like a team while denying that same ability to other players is just unfair. Its also one of the major reasons ELO doesnt actually work. If you have a 4-man on TS vs 4 PUGs, even if they have similar ELO, the 4-man on TS is going to win most of the time by virtue of being able to play better as a team.

PGI needs to level the playing field. Either get rid of premades entirely or give pugs the same advantages premades have.

Wrong.

First off you can't speak for everyone. Second, there are more than two groups of people who play this game. I solo and group drop as well as occasionally 12 man.

I don't group to stomp PUGs. I do it for the fun of hanging with cool people (no jerks allowed in the DHB). I solo because sometimes I am not in the mood to talk, or i know I only have time for one or two games etc.

So right there you statement is patently false.

I also take exception with the premise that everyone that group drops is a pathetic loser who gets off on stomping. Should I assume you are a pathetic loser with no friends and so poverty stricken that you can't afford a $15 headset to get on TS?

Mudhutwarrior, on 03 February 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

Poetic!

They will never get it but they do like to expose themselves a lot.

Yet you are the one who won't respond to direct questions and waffles and changes the subject when caught flat out lying about a mistake.

You are more immature than some of the minors we have in DHB. That's sad since we have a 10 year old recruit.

[Roadbeer]

Mudhutwarrior, on 03 February 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

Poetic!

They will never get it but they do like to expose themselves a lot.

Aren't you allegedly a grown man?
Grown men don't use the term bully (at least no grown man who was born before the Reagan administration)
Grown men don't use scapegoats "Premades ate my baby" when in reality, you got out played.
Grown men don't rely on others to "Create" a level playing field (integrated VoIP), the level the playing field themselves (TS).

Do everyone a favor and refrain from posting until your stones drop.

[Roland]

Khobai, on 01 February 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

Everyone who pugs would choose that option. The only people who dont want that are the ones abusing 4mans.

I think this is patently false.

I, for instance, would likely drop in the group queue, even when pugging.

Why? Because you're much more likely to get put with players who actually have some idea of what is going on, and understand how to play on at least some rudimentary level.

Just like in CoD, I'll choose the regular queue over the mercenary queue.... because the games are better when you're playing with folks who actually know how to play.

And yet, at the same time, I really have no problem at all with them creating a solo queue... because if folks WANT to play like a bunch of lone wolves, I see no reason to try and force them to do otherwise.. because really, you won't succeed in forcing them.

Getting those folks out of the real queue will benefit both themselves AND those playing in the real queue.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 03 February 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

I have an idea? If you don't like rehashing a subject just don't click on the thread. Its an open forum which means you have no say about content or placement. That' s what mods are for. Are you a mod? Or do you just desire to be one?

Ahhhhhh ok, I get it now. Finally.

I should be the one who follows the rules but you and those you agree with or support your ideologies should be allowed to disregard the CoC of the forums but anyone who doesn't agree with you should be required to follow the rules. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[RG Notch]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

Ahhhhhh ok, I get it now. Finally.

I should be the one who follows the rules but you and those you agree with or support your ideologies should be allowed to disregard the CoC of the forums but anyone who doesn't agree with you should be required to follow the rules. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

That's kind of funny because I see you and your pals in the exact same light, pot meet kettle. Oh wait you're in the right because.....

[Sandpit]

RG Notch, on 03 February 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

That's kind of funny because I see you and your pals in the exact same light, pot meet kettle. Oh wait you're in the right because.....

Because we point out that this "new" thread isn't "new" and we get tired of having to dig through 20 duplicate posts just to find threads and information that doesn't involve the latest bandwagon?

[wanderer]

Quote

Grown men don't use scapegoats "Premades ate my baby" when in reality, you got out played.
Grown men don't rely on others to "Create" a level playing field (integrated VoIP), the level the playing field themselves (TS).

Again, please show me the TS server I can go on that puts the other 11 members of my PUG on VOIP with me?

No?

Then the team with even partial VOIP has an advantage over the other one. Saying anything else is doing a meat helicopter just below the belly button while talking about "outplaying" the opponent.

You want "even", go drop in the random pool and get into the stomp cycle with the rest of the PUGs. No voice comms, real men tie one hand behind their backs when the other guy has theirs tied too. No having predictable comrades, just whatever the MM tosses your way. Just like everyone else.

If you're doing anything else in PUGs, you're not "even" with the rest of the pack. Got a premade? You've stacked the deck with three cards you know will be in with you. VOIP? You have a reaction advantage over everyone without it.

[Sandpit]

The ONLY thing I ever "complain" about are duplicate threads. It's called your rights ending where mine begin. Have a thread and talk about all the evil premades you want. Rant and rage against PGI, MM, Ballistics, ECM, LRMs, Lights, Assaults, Heavies, etc. but do it in one thread so I don't have to weed through people disregarding the rules and posting 20 duplicate threads on the exact same subject.

wanderer, on 03 February 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Again, please show me the TS server I can go on that puts the other 11 members of my PUG on VOIP with me?

No?

Then the team with even partial VOIP has an advantage over the other one. Saying anything else is doing a meat helicopter just below the belly button while talking about "outplaying" the opponent.

You want "even", go drop in the random pool and get into the stomp cycle with the rest of the PUGs. No voice comms, real men tie one hand behind their backs when the other guy has theirs tied too. No having predictable comrades, just whatever the MM tosses your way. Just like everyone else.

If you're doing anything else in PUGs, you're not "even" with the rest of the pack. Got a premade? You've stacked the deck with three cards you know will be in with you. VOIP? You have a reaction advantage over everyone without it.

lol

Want to know why this is completely invalid and untrue? Well because we get stomped just as often as pugs. We ARE part of the cycle. So please, tell me again how dropping in a 4man makes you immune to anything a solo player faces? Explain to me how dropping in a 4man prevents you from getting stomped because I'd really like to know the secret to this one.
I'd love to not be involved in stomps so if you have some secret code that prevents it by dropping in 4mans I'm all ears

[Nick Makiaveli]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

lol

Want to know why this is completely invalid and untrue? Well because we get stomped just as often as pugs. We ARE part of the cycle. So please, tell me again how dropping in a 4man makes you immune to anything a solo player faces? Explain to me how dropping in a 4man prevents you from getting stomped because I'd really like to know the secret to this one.
I'd love to not be involved in stomps so if you have some secret code that prevents it by dropping in 4mans I'm all ears

This. When we drop casually, we get stomped on occasion. The reason we have a higher win/loss ratio when grouping is when we see the match is pretty much lost, ie 4-0 etc, we make a coordinated rush to the base.

And yes, we let the rest of the team know so if they are so inclined they can try to hold the line so we can pull a win out of the jaws of a stomp. Love getting a win when the score is 2-10 or so

[Sug]

Why the hell can't we see our Elo scores?

[wanderer]

Quote

Want to know why this is completely invalid and untrue? Well because we get stomped just as often as pugs. We ARE part of the cycle. So please, tell me again how dropping in a 4man makes you immune to anything a solo player faces? Explain to me how dropping in a 4man prevents you from getting stomped because I'd really like to know the secret to this one.
I'd love to not be involved in stomps so if you have some secret code that prevents it by dropping in 4mans I'm all ears

Strange how that is, my record in premades is, if pen and paper hashmarks make a decent keeper around 66% wins, vs. a bit less than 50% without. That's 4-mans, Sandpit. I usually pick up 0-2 kills PUGing, 1-4 in premades per match.

Premade isn't all-powerful, but it IS better than what I'm doing in straight PUG play...and that's even with me being unable to speak up for fear of ticking off the roomie who's trying to sleep. It's an advantage my opponents often don't have. Y'know, like the last game I was in. Walked around a corner. Backshot someone to death. The rest of the PUG lance didn't notice

Shot the next one in the back. Ducked behind cover. Came back out. He was still standing in place. Shot again. Kill #2.

PUGger> WWWWAAAAAADDD (I'm assuming he was trying to say something in team chat, but lol deathchat)

I was already shooting up #3. VOIP, and I'd have had three of them on me five seconds after I backshot the first one dead. Goodness knows that's what happened when I could use VOIP in a premade- what I saw, the team knew as fast as I got my mouth open. "Flanker on our back, G3, just got me with mediums.". Instead, the ones in front were deaf to anything save "XXX died".

It's a real-time game. The side with real-time communication has a powerful tool vs. the one that does not.