540 replies to this topic

[Nick Makiaveli]

wwiiogre, on 26 January 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

You really are not reading what I said. 75% of games are ending lopsided. Meaning not coming down to 1v1 or 2v3 near the end. but 8v2, 10v1.

In a game usually one side loses. So every game has 50% of its players lose. I do a lot of solo dropping. or 2man dropping, but I don't put those numbers in my comments or I would qualify them. In the 2man games I dropped last night and today we were about 50% win/loss. but we dropped assaults only. When we switched to light/mediums we lost about 66%.

The only reason I started posting on this topic again, was that Paul keeps updating ELO in the command chair section and says all is well things are working as expected.

I say to that, horseshart unless you like roflstomps and mismatches. I don't need to post finish screens here. You can look on the forum and find many that have between 300-450 ton mismatches and if you play enough you can look at those screen shots and see that there are 4mans on oneside and not the other in addition to the tonnage mismatch.

No some of you are claiming that tonnage is used in the elo equation and I call ******** on that. Your win/loss elo is based on your mech class. But what you drop is not matched on the other team. Merely your elo score. Meaning, if you have a high elo score in your commando, you can and will be matched up against an Atlas with the same elo score. And the proof is in all the post match screen shots showing just that.

Chris

I did misread that, but the point holds. Are you familiar with the phrase "combat loss groupings"? In short, in any fight with ablative armor etc etc, the losses will grow exponentially. So in the first minute or two, you may have no losses. Then lose 1 in the next minute, but 3 the minute after that and so on.

This happens in almost every single MWO match. Both sides lose a mech or two, then one side loses another, followed by another, then it snowballs. One team has more mechs, so the wounded ones pull back and snipe. The battle is still not even as both may have 5 mechs on the line, but one side has 2 more sniping, so it quickly becomes 7v4, then 7v3, then 6v2 finally 6v0. Now if one team has a couple of mechs than wander off solo and get ganked, followed by a pair that charges and dies, then suddenly you have a 12v8 match and yes that will likely end a score of 12-2.

That isn't the fault of the MM, it's the fault of the folks who ran off. And the ones who charged (or the ones who failed to push with those guys when there was an opening).

The point is sometimes your team sucks. Or makes mistakes. Or has griefers. Or has some people who are having a bad day, or you get someone with family aggro in the middle of the match.

Quit whining and launch a new match. If you aren't having fun playing the game, why are you playing? I think the problem is many of you are spoiled brats (and yes some are 12 and some are 42) and if you aren't winning you aren't having fun.

The solution isn't to screw up the game with nerfs and simplifications.

One last thing, if the game sucks so ******* much, why do you keep spending money?

[Zordicron]

I just want to add:

Setting game mode to "any" does seem to help a little with matchmaker. If you want to run only skirmish, better run at least a heavy. in my XP, trying to force matchmaker to put your medium or light into skirmish makes it go haywire. If you end up with a skirmish game while set to "any" the game usually isnt that harsh.

At least thats how it has been working out for me lately.

As for the "MM makes you lose" well sort of. As you win your Elo thoeretically goes up. One would think you would then get matched with other slightly higher Elo players, but in reality the game then uses your slightly higher Elo to average out with trial mech guy to try to keep the two teams even. So then if you and Joe Blow have high Elo, you might see 6 of your team get under 50 dmg at end of match and you lose even if you pull 5 kills and 900 dmg.

Because in the end, Elo wants you to be 1:1 W/L anyway, thats the entire concept behind a matchmaker anyway. Because if you are at 1:1, it is supposed to mean you are in close matches.


Too bad the MM uses team averages to try to make a match, where your high score pairs with someone elses crappy score to match the other team. And then you dont have equals on a team making the match feel like your team was at least on the same page, you get these matches where it feels like PUG LOTTO.

But ahh well. Tough it out, new stuff is coming. And if it doesnt come soon, or work, well it wont matter because the game will fail if they dont figure it out by next fall.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Mystere, on 26 January 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

The exaggerations on the forums are astounding.

Indeed...I keep losing, I keep dying, this game sucks, as it certainly cannot be me that is bad.

[KharnZor]

Such is life in the steering wheel underhive.

[wanderer]

I can pretty much put it down in terms of stats.

I go into a premade, my wins are better than 2 out of 3, my KDR is 3+, and games are usually 4:1 of us killing them and them killing 3 or less of us. That's 3 of the entire team we're on.

I PUG and my KDR drops to .5 and wins are barely 50% if that, and the majority of THOSE are 0-3/12 games, whichever way it goes.

Yeah, premades have -no- effect on PUG battles. No significant one whatsoever. Not having reliable team-mates is totally overrated, or a steady comm link to same. Right.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I think sometimes we need to define a Stomp here.. My idea of a stomp is a 12/0-12/2 in under 3 to 4 minutes depending on the size of the map. Maybe longer if its a lrm/ecm deathball that lets only missiles fly for a while or hides right until the push.
I also discount just plain terribad pugs in a match. It don't count if your terrible.

Not much else to say except pugging you see a lot of them depending on when you play during the day.

A lot of times I feel pugs just get a bad beating and call it a stomp. I just like a good fight win or lose so the whole you losing so don't take it bad is just bunk. A good fight is just that, a good fight. Someone always loses but its still glorious all the same.

[Nightcrept]

Sandpit, on 26 January 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

No they don't.
OP title is wrong. How do I know? Well because every game I play isn't a stomp. Stuff like that title is what gets ideas and such dismissed. Not all games are stomps. it's simply untrue.

I've noticed much closer games since MM tweaks lately. That must mean all games are close solid games! (or that could jsut be my individual perception based on my small sliver of the entire population, imagine that)


Then it becomes voip, weapon balance, PGI, arty, ecm, etc. the list goes on and on and on. They'll find something to blame. The easiest thing is just not participate in threads like this anymore. There's tons of existing threads that discuss this. There's also plenty of reasons why the savior that is pugs only queues won't really work. just stop feeding them.

The pug only mode did work when pgi ran it for a few months remember?

What didn't work was the the pre-made only game mode. Not enough pre-made players and the pre-mades got upset.

Mudhutwarrior, on 26 January 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

I think sometimes we need to define a Stomp here.. My idea of a stomp is a 12/0-12/2 in under 3 to 4 minutes depending on the size of the map. Maybe longer if its a lrm/ecm deathball that lets only missiles fly for a while or hides right until the push.
I also discount just plain terribad pugs in a match. It don't count if your terrible.

Not much else to say except pugging you see a lot of them depending on when you play during the day.

A lot of times I feel pugs just get a bad beating and call it a stomp. I just like a good fight win or lose so the whole you losing so don't take it bad is just bunk. A good fight is just that, a good fight. Someone always loses but its still glorious all the same.

My definition is 12-6 or worse.

[Lightfoot]

Most times all it takes in a PUG is to tell your teammates to form up. If they split in two you get stomped, unless the other team split in three. If both teams stay grouped together you get some Last Mech Standing matches sometimes or it's close.

Just tell your team to form up, if the other team doesn't and you stomp them, oh well.

[wanderer]

Nightcrept, on 26 January 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

The pug only mode did work when pgi ran it for a few months remember?

What didn't work was the the pre-made only game mode. Not enough pre-made players and the pre-mades got upset.

My definition is 12-6 or worse.

Eh, virtually every game would be a stomp then. I figure any match where you're losing 3 of yours for every 1 of theirs, you're being stomped. 2:1 means you put up a fight at least, 3:1 or worse means your opponents rolled you like a cheap cigar.

[lsp]

Someone already cried about this, it's you. Doesn't happen to me, I don't just get stomped over and over again.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Nightcrept, on 26 January 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

My definition is 12-6 or worse.

If i took that view I would probably be assassinated here. We should view "Stomps" on the narrowest of terms. Maybe others could post their defintions.

[wanderer]

lsp, on 26 January 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

Someone already cried about this, it's you. Doesn't happen to me, I don't just get stomped over and over again.

Are you in a unit? Are you doing premades? Then more often than not, you're stomping a PUG. From the unit tag on your sig, I'd guess the answer to both is "yes", but please, clarify. Do you PUG or premade?

[MischiefSC]

Just had 3 matches back to back to back where my team made some poor tactical choices and was down between 3 and 6 mechs early on but 2 or 3 skilled pilots and a well chosen regroup position turned the whole match around.

I've also found a Battlemaster 1G build that doesn't suck. It's pretty much the antithesis of what the Battlemaster should be and the 1G is horribly, ridiculously gimped for reasons beyond mortal ken, but this one build it's that bad. It's no Victor, but it's not bad.

I don't get a lot of stomps though. Sometimes, but not often.

[wanderer]

MischiefSC, on 26 January 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

I've also found a Battlemaster 1G build that doesn't suck. It's pretty much the antithesis of what the Battlemaster should be and the 1G is horribly, ridiculously gimped for reasons beyond mortal ken, but this one build it's that bad. It's no Victor, but it's not bad.

Amusingly, swapping the main guns to dual AC/2's is terrifyingly good. Go go ballistics, it's tremendous for suppressive fire.

[IceCase88]

It is not matchmaker or ELO. It is the vast majority of people in the game or devoid of any semblance of military tactics. Ideas of taking, and holding, advantageous territory, cover, concealment, covering fire, dynamically taking territory, etc are lost on most of the players. They usually see the first red blip on the screen and 3/4, or more, of your team is chasing it down to get the kill. Many times hitting each other as much as they are hitting the enemy. Then they are way out of position and giving the opposing force the advantage.

[MischiefSC]

wanderer, on 26 January 2014 - 06:35 PM, said:

Amusingly, swapping the main guns to dual AC/2's is terrifyingly good. Go go ballistics, it's tremendous for suppressive fire.

It's alright but that fat torso and only 60 degrees of base torso twist means you literally can not twist to protect your CT or side torsos. It's only good as a sniper, that's it.

Torso width of an Awesome, miserable twisting radius of a Stalker.... and does so 20% slower. The only way to make a 2xAC2 setup work is to stay outside of any other weapons range.

[Corvus Antaka]

today was beyond brutal. roll after roll, one way or another. lack of tonnage limits is making for ridiculous unwinnable games, no 2 spiders can cut through 8+ assaults while supported by mediums & a few heavies.

whatever happened to elo the past few days has not been so great for the game. jumpsniping & minmaxing is also getting worse and worse, I hope PGI has some balancing planned for the future.

splitting the blob up is still a big problem, ECM, lack of radar and 1 dimensional gameplay/guns is getting worse and worse lately.

all the gamemodes have been destroyed to cater to slow assault mechs, conquest takes forever to cap so fatlas can retake his bases without massive QQ, assault is actually not bad, but every gamemode is filtering through massive amounts of 733C's, victors, jesters & anything else that can jumpsnipe, huddled up with some ECM behind cover, and every match I seem to get 3-4 champion mech newb tag-alongs that can't pilot out of a toilet.

It's disturbing to do over 1000 dmg in a match and lose 12-1 because 8 guys on your team cant do damage, or to have your 4 man lance do 11 of 12 kills and 3500 dmg basically taking out the entire enemy team while your 8 other bodies are little more than cannon fodder.

[KhanHeir]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 26 January 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

today was beyond brutal. roll after roll, one way or another. lack of tonnage limits is making for ridiculous unwinnable games, no 2 spiders can cut through 8+ assaults while supported by mediums & a few heavies.

whatever happened to elo the past few days has not been so great for the game. jumpsniping & minmaxing is also getting worse and worse, I hope PGI has some balancing planned for the future.

splitting the blob up is still a big problem, ECM, lack of radar and 1 dimensional gameplay/guns is getting worse and worse lately.

all the gamemodes have been destroyed to cater to slow assault mechs, conquest takes forever to cap so fatlas can retake his bases without massive QQ, assault is actually not bad, but every gamemode is filtering through massive amounts of 733C's, victors, jesters & anything else that can jumpsnipe, huddled up with some ECM behind cover, and every match I seem to get 3-4 champion mech newb tag-alongs that can't pilot out of a toilet.

It's disturbing to do over 1000 dmg in a match and lose 12-1 because 8 guys on your team cant do damage, or to have your 4 man lance do 11 of 12 kills and 3500 dmg basically taking out the entire enemy team while your 8 other bodies are little more than cannon fodder.

Irony is the best treat.

Get good, this is revenge for all those carry victims while you played in an atlas with small lasers or something stupid.

Honestly what do you expect when the player pops spiral like this? Did you think you could play in your rose tinted world forever?

Things are going to get worse, come the 12 v 1 drops soon..............the return of the pub ghetto.

[Khobai]

1) deathballing occurs because killing the other team is usually easier than completing the objective. Focus fire is the fastest way to kill enemies and deathballing is the result of that. We need respawn gamemodes to shift some of the focus off killing and back on the objectives.

2) ecm also feeds into deathballing by encouraging mechs to bunch up. ecm stealth bubble needs to be removed. lrms should be balanced independently of ecm.

3) poor map design also causes deathballing. maps like crimson straits are the worst because they funnel both teams into the same exact spot every single game. We need more "open" maps like alpine and caustic and less maps like crimson straits.

Quote

I hope PGI has some balancing planned for the future.

Expect more autocannon nerfs coming down the pipeline. Also expect a meta shift back to dual gauss as a direct result.

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2014 - 08:19 PM.

[Jman5]

There are a couple things PGI has planned that I think are going to reduce the number of unfair matches. Weight parity is a big one, but they are also working on ways to allow players to reconnect after a disconnect or crash.

Still, don't delude yourself that we will ever have a game where the average match is close in kills. It wont happen because the nature of snowballing advantages. You would need respawning to change that.

Edited by Jman5, 26 January 2014 - 08:29 PM.