540 replies to this topic

[KhanHeir]

Jman5, on 26 January 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

There are a couple things PGI has planned that I think are going to reduce the number of unfair matches. Weight parity is a big one, but they are also working on ways to allow players to reconnect after a disconnect or crash.

Still, don't delude yourself that we will ever have a game where the average match is close in kills. It wont happen because the nature of snowballing advantages. You would need respawning to change that.

Until the system either can't find the right tonnage to meet the gap or it fails entirely.

OR the system requires players to agree, which they won't leading to more vitriol on team makeup.

[Sandpit]

Nightcrept, on 26 January 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

The pug only mode did work when pgi ran it for a few months remember?


My definition is 12-6 or worse.

When did they ever run a pug only mode? and if you're talking about back in beta when they originally nerfed groups? No, it didn't work, people were STILL wailing and flailing against premades who touched them.

12-6 is a stomp??? Well I think we're understanding a little more about why people "think" they're getting stomped....

[Jman5]

KhanHeir, on 26 January 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

Until the system either can't find the right tonnage to meet the gap or it fails entirely.

OR the system requires players to agree, which they won't leading to more vitriol on team makeup.

You are not going to have trouble finding the right tonnage because the new system is creating caps for what you can bring to a match (60 ton average per person). So you're not going to be able to drop as 4 atlas and then wait in the queue for a century while it looks for 8 lights to pair you with.

Of course private matches you can bring your 1200 ton team.

[Craig Steele]

Poor OP,

expresses a personal opinion that is affecting his desire to spend time / money on the game and gets smashed.

Nice one community, PGI set the standard I suppose. They have made it clear it's their game and their doing it their way and if you don't like what they're doing when they do it you can shove off.

Hard to fault the sheep for following the leader.

Edited by Craig Steele, 27 January 2014 - 03:42 AM.

[Steel Claws]

You'll notice he's only been signed up since November. Two months of casual play isn't going to get him anywhere vs most of the die hards here. Eventually he may get there.

[Craig Steele]

Steel Claws, on 27 January 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

You'll notice he's only been signed up since November. Two months of casual play isn't going to get him anywhere vs most of the die hards here. Eventually he may get there.

Isn't that the shame of it, after 2 months of entertainment from a game he'd probably have dropped a wad of cash on the game if he hadn't already and stuck around because he enjoyed it.

But whats his story, apparently two months of fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu and a Dev / Community that says toughen up princess or go play marbles. Don't let the door hit you in **** on the way.

Such a shame, but fully sanctioned by the powers that be, so it is what it is.

[NextGame]

Quote

Isn't that the shame of it, after 2 months of entertainment from a game he'd probably have dropped a wad of cash on the game if he hadn't already and stuck around because he enjoyed it.

But whats his story, apparently two months of fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu and a Dev / Community that says toughen up princess or go play marbles. Don't let the door hit you in **** on the way.

Such a shame, but fully sanctioned by the powers that be, so it is what it is.

So why don't you go and hold his hand then and show him how to play? Nothing stopping you or others who might feel that newer players are somehow particularly hard done by?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Steel Claws, on 27 January 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

You'll notice he's only been signed up since November. Two months of casual play isn't going to get him anywhere vs most of the die hards here. Eventually he may get there.

Many have played a long time and never signed on. One guy i see in drops regularly has never signed on since dec 2012.

Poor idea to use his login.

[Joseph Mallan]

MischiefSC, on 26 January 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Weight limits should help, for one thing.

Theoretically, after UI 2.0, some more effective matchmaking can be applied. Accounting for how well someone performs with a given mech rather than roughly for a weight class, matching to a range with more tolerance for high Elo outliers and not sandbagging teams for having a ringer on them.... a few things.

There are not nothing but stomps though. I see a few but as someone who actually tracks their matches I can say they're about 1 in 5 matches. Slightly over 20%, over the last ~200.

A significant thing lately has been all the Phoenix Pack mechs. They were largely terrible. The Shawk isn't bad but you had team half full of Battlemasters and Thunderbolts. That's literally exactly the same as having your team half full of Awesomes and Dragons. Then you've got the other team playing competitive chassis like Highlanders, Victors, Jags and Stalkers.

Still though I feel your frustration. While I think you're exaggerating or taking a brief anecdotal slice of games and saying it's 'ALL THE TIME', you're not happy with the matchmaking lately.

Fair enough. All we can do is wait for UI 2.0 and hope that it's as magical as people hope.

Weight limits will not help. If you are getting stomped now, you will continue to be stomped with less weight. The better team always wins.

[Craig Steele]

NextGame, on 27 January 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

So why don't you go and hold his hand then and show him how to play? Nothing stopping you or others who might feel that newer players are somehow particularly hard done by?

Thanks, good idea, but kinda irrelevant to the point I was making.

Nice way of deflecting ownership though. Or did you already send him friend request? If so I apologise.

@ Joseph, absolutely. Weight Limits is a terrible idea. Weight balancing is what is required. Let people pick whatever mech they want, but have MM put the teams together so the overall tonnage is roughly equal.

[Nightcrept]

Sandpit, on 26 January 2014 - 08:42 PM, said:

When did they ever run a pug only mode? and if you're talking about back in beta when they originally nerfed groups? No, it didn't work, people were STILL wailing and flailing against premades who touched them.

12-6 is a stomp??? Well I think we're understanding a little more about why people "think" they're getting stomped....

It worked fine for pugs. Whither that fits your narrative and you want to admit it is another matter all together.

Pre-mades were the ones who screamed bloody murder about it. Pgi then quickly allowed small groups of pre-mades back into pug games and pugs screamed about being rolled again.

But your premise that pug only games will fail is not true. Truth is that pre-mades need fillers and easy practice targets.

The only old issue with pug only games was that one or two experienced players could at times cause a roll in game. That issue should be fixed by the elo system.


And yes to me generally games worse then 12-6 have usually been bad or frustrating games.

[Joseph Mallan]

Craig Steele, on 27 January 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

Thanks, good idea, but kinda irrelevant to the point I was making.

Nice way of deflecting ownership though. Or did you already send him friend request? If so I apologise.

@ Joseph, absolutely. Weight Limits is a terrible idea. Weight balancing is what is required. Let people pick whatever mech they want, but have MM put the teams together so the overall tonnage is roughly equal.

That won't stop the stomps though and the crying will continue.

[KhanHeir]

Jman5, on 26 January 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

You are not going to have trouble finding the right tonnage because the new system is creating caps for what you can bring to a match (60 ton average per person). So you're not going to be able to drop as 4 atlas and then wait in the queue for a century while it looks for 8 lights to pair you with.

Of course private matches you can bring your 1200 ton team.

So then you'll never be able to bring the mech you want or your team will be stranded in matchmaking, fantastic.

[Craig Steele]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 January 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

That won't stop the stomps though and the crying will continue.

Yes and no, I think half the frustration comes from a lack of information. People see a lopsided scoreline and they see a slanting of tonnage and either feel hard done by or (if they were lower weight) that the other guys were no challenge. Either way it not a sense of satisfaction / entertainment.

If the weights were roughly balanced it takes away one source of frustration.

If they posted (this someone elses brilliant idea imo) mech effectiveness at the close of battle screen, wipes out another source of frustration.

If I lose 12 - 2 against 8 assault mechs I feel let down by the game. If I lose 12 - 2 against 8 assault mechs and see that we were close to taking out 5 more, my mind says 12 - 7 with a bit of luck, damn. And its not a stomp.

Bottom line is, there will be some frustration cause there will still be unbalanced games, (and imo, thats a good thing. I'm not against the vagracies of war) but more often than not players should be challenged and entertained and come away from their game with a desire to press launch again. Some would say the game is far from providing that atm.

Edited by Craig Steele, 27 January 2014 - 06:14 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 January 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

That won't stop the stomps though and the crying will continue.

No it wont stop stomps but it will reduce frequency. Crying will always continue. The issue is if the crying is valid. Nerfing stuff is not the answer but seems to be the alley PGI is going down. The answer is giving everyone the same tools from the game itself and giving them a fair chance. Voice comms overpowered by a mile over the keyboard and premade team familiarity come next. Cant nerf them but bring them to a near equal footing. I drop with enough pugs I see everyday and we tend to understand our play. It will balance out in the log run if ingame voip comes and if the base will support split ques. I am on the fence on splitting for the reasons that I dont have good information to go on. Just give me the tools to counter op comms and you wont hear from me.

[anonymous161]

I've never played with a group but never really needed to. I typically do quite well and we stomp if the other team are just plain bad not ever avoiding our missiles or just letting me run around in circles shooting many many lasers and machine guns at them. They are shocked when they realize that medium lasers do terrific damage if they continually and accurately hit them!

[Joseph Mallan]

I don't see it that way though.

We are entering ourselves into a random match generator.
With multiple variables.
So if I lose to 8 Assaults and 4 heavies in a mixed weight team, well the military axiom is Military Intelligence... isn't! We want to play a fighting game that is supposed to be LIKE military combat. It's got a fair amount of random in it, and I like it like that. I don't wanna know my enemy is hand picked to be an even fight for me! Where is the WOW factor in that?

Because we think we are meant to have a 50/50 chance of winning many get mad when success does not come their way, cause the deck was randomly stacked against them. What are they going to do when they want to attack a planet the Law is protecting and we don't play nice cause we don't want to give them a chance to win it from us?

Seriously, why do we have to give you a chance to take our stuff?

[C E Dwyer]

Team A 6 assaults not sure the rest of the make up

Team B 1 assault, the rest of team comprising mostly of mediums shadowhawks trebs and hunchies.

If the ELO is WAI then what chance is there if the MM keep screwing the weights so badly..this should not be an issue this shouldn't need a weight restriction put on players the MM should simply have the computing power to say wow ...this isn't fair i'll wait another 30 seconds...

programme it properly please, or get someone that can perhaps..

[NextGame]

Craig Steele, on 27 January 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

Thanks, good idea, but kinda irrelevant to the point I was making.

Nice way of deflecting ownership though. Or did you already send him friend request? If so I apologise.

No ownership assumed on my part. I prefer it when people work out how to play games for themselves, rather than get spoon fed. But if others want to show people how to play, then they can go for it as far as I'm concerned.

The point was: *You* are complaining about people being unhelpful towards the OP. How does this assist anyone or address the issue? Some players are probably still going to be {Scrap}, and lose every match, and whine about their own lack of ability. People are going to continue to be bored by this.

The nature of the game modes will not change, certainly not in the short/medium term at least, and a map where a team is 3+ mechs down will generally continue to snowball into a stomp, especially a team where there's 1 disconnect, an afk'er, and some other twit hiding at the back in an assault afraid to take any damage/contribute to the team, making everyone wonder why they bothered dropping in the first place.

No meddling with ELO/Matchmaker/Whatever is going to resolve the issue for the worst players in the game. It is something that they can only address for themselves.

"Man up & play better" is the only reasonable advice that can be given, as that is what everyone else playing the game has to do in order to avoid being "stomped". Think Jump sniping is OP? Use it. Think LRMs are OP? Use them. Think teamwork and premades are OP? Join in.

Edited by NextGame, 27 January 2014 - 06:47 AM.

[Nightcrept]

NextGame, on 27 January 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

No ownership assumed on my part. I prefer it when people work out how to play games for themselves, rather than get spoon fed. But if others want to show people how to play, then they can go for it as far as I'm concerned.

The point was: *You* are complaining about people being unhelpful towards the OP. How does this assist anyone or address the issue? Some players are probably still going to be {Scrap}, and lose every match, and whine about their own lack of ability. People are going to continue to be bored by this.

The nature of the game modes will not change, certainly not in the short/medium term at least, and a map where a team is 3+ mechs down will continue to snowball into a stomp.

No meddling with ELO/Matchmaker/Whatever is going to resolve the issue for the worst players in the game. It is something that they can only address for themselves.

"Man up & play better" is the only reasonable advice that can be given, as that is what everyone else playing the game has to do in order to avoid being "stomped".

NO that is not reasonable advise. That's a good way to lose players.

Some people are not as good as others and never will be. That is the purpose of elo and other methods of matchmaking.
To just throw all players together would be to tell all but the top 20% or so of the player base to quit.