227 replies to this topic

[Stonefalcon]

Anybody can make a pie chart, as shown below I've made a chart based on possibly fake statistics.


I like pie charts, mmmmm pie.

Edited by Stonefalcon, 11 March 2014 - 07:27 PM.

[Lightfoot]

Just support your lances. Nothing else matters as much.

[Davers]

Roland, on 07 March 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

I think most companies that attempt an online competitive game like this actually would have a statistician on staff.

Analyzing data is not easy.

http://www.gamasutra...ires_Online.php

The interesting about this speech was how the company completely interpreted their game data wrong and what they thought was great was actually very bad.

Bhael Fire, on 11 March 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

I don't think anyone with even modicum of rationality would say all 12-0 wipes are the result of premades, but to deny the fact that they account for a good portion of them is just silly.

4% of group drops are responsible for 50% of pug stomps? How could they cause more pug stomps than the matches they are in? Are the 8% 2 man groups stomping everyone too?

[Bhael Fire]

Davers, on 11 March 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

4% of group drops are responsible for 50% of pug stomps?

If you say so.

[Davers]

Bhael Fire, on 11 March 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

If you say so.

I don't want to put words (or numbers) in your mouth. When you say 'a good portion' of pugstomps, what does that mean? And if the premades are all stomping pugs, why isn't their Elo changing so they are not fighting each other?

[Kaldor]

Stonefalcon, on 11 March 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

Anybody can make a pie chart, as shown below I've made a chart based on possibly fake statistics.


I like pie charts, mmmmm pie.

Pie is always good. A good cake is OK as well. But having a good cup of coffee to go with either is important.

Can you make a pie chart to reflect this?

Lets not even get into other baked goods such as cookies and brownies...

[Joseph Mallan]

I've always liked Cake better.

[Kaldor]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 March 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

I've always liked Cake better.

But do you like milk or coffee with your cake? This could potentially skew the "pie" chart even more?

Just a lesson in fuzzy statistics here showing that data can be skewed any direction they want it to be...

[Joseph Mallan]

Kaldor, on 12 March 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

But do you like milk or coffee with your cake? This could potentially skew the "pie" chart even more?

Just a lesson in fuzzy statistics here showing that data can be skewed any direction they want it to be...

I have drank 4 cups of coffee in 48 years. I go through 4 gallons of Milk a week. You decide!

[Kaldor]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 March 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

I have drank 4 cups of coffee in 48 years. I go through 4 gallons of Milk a week. You decide!

So milk for Joe.

Im about 50/50. Milk is good when I sit down for a meal, but coffee is a must. I bring a large thermos of coffee to work with me every day, doesnt matter the temperature outside. I even drink coffee later in the evening, but I tend to "irish" it up a little bit.

I wonder how that would skew the "pie" chart?

OK, enough nonsense. Fact is, the data that they have is probably good, but the way they are interpreting is bad. They look at it like group play is not important, when in fact it is the cornerstone of the game. Every successful multiplayer game in the last 15 years has catered to the groups of players, doesnt matter what genre it is, MMO, FPS, etc. Any multiplayer game that did not cater to the groups of players has pretty much died off in a short period of time.

[Davers]

Kaldor, on 12 March 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

OK, enough nonsense. Fact is, the data that they have is probably good, but the way they are interpreting is bad. They look at it like group play is not important, when in fact it is the cornerstone of the game. Every successful multiplayer game in the last 15 years has catered to the groups of players, doesnt matter what genre it is, MMO, FPS, etc. Any multiplayer game that did not cater to the groups of players has pretty much died off in a short period of time.

I can't help but believe that a player who drops in groups spends more money than one who is playing casually. Groups create immersion, which causes the player to invest more. I can honestly say that if I hadn't started dropping with Marik (or some other group, I was very nearly a Liao!) I would not be still playing this game.

[Prezimonto]

Stonefalcon, on 11 March 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

Anybody can make a pie chart, as shown below I've made a chart based on possibly fake statistics.


I like pie charts, mmmmm pie.

This is another point, pie charts are bad and anyone using them to convey quantitative data should feel bad.

Joseph Mallan, on 12 March 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

I have drank 4 cups of coffee in 48 years. I go through 4 gallons of Milk a week. You decide!

Coffee smells wonderful and tastes like rear end. I don't quite understand how I can love beer so much and and never have enjoyed coffee, but it makes me happy to find other people who can't bear to drink it. I also don't drink much milk though, water please.

Edited by Prezimonto, 12 March 2014 - 08:36 AM.

[Prezimonto]

Kaldor, on 12 March 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

OK, enough nonsense. Fact is, the data that they have is probably good, but the way they are interpreting is bad. They look at it like group play is not important, when in fact it is the cornerstone of the game. Every successful multiplayer game in the last 15 years has catered to the groups of players, doesnt matter what genre it is, MMO, FPS, etc. Any multiplayer game that did not cater to the groups of players has pretty much died off in a short period of time.

I'm still not even convinced their data is appropriate. But I will point out that games like CoD come out with new versions every year or two, which is the only way to deal with a largely solo crowd. A game that's out for the long haul needs to cater to communities as they're they provide a sense of place that keeps players around for much longer.

[Joseph Mallan]

Prezimonto, on 12 March 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

Coffee smells wonderful and tastes like rear end. I don't quite understand how I can love beer so much and and never have enjoyed coffee, but it makes me happy to find other people who can't bear to drink it. I also don't drink much milk though, water please.

For me the answer is easy... Beer makes you drunk and Coffee wakes you up! Beer>Coffee.

[Roadbeer]

Prezimonto, on 12 March 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

I'm still not even convinced their data is appropriate. But I will point out that games like CoD come out with new versions every year or two, which is the only way to deal with a largely solo crowd. A game that's out for the long haul needs to cater to communities as they're they provide a sense of place that keeps players around for much longer.

Can't like this enough.

[Bhael Fire]

Prezimonto, on 12 March 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

I'm still not even convinced their data is appropriate. But I will point out that games like CoD come out with new versions every year or two, which is the only way to deal with a largely solo crowd. A game that's out for the long haul needs to cater to communities as they're they provide a sense of place that keeps players around for much longer.

I guess I'm seeing something completely different; by and large solo players are the cornerstone of any game. The reason games like CoD publish titles every couple of years is because they follow the "$60 box" model instead of F2P. They HAVE to release new titles in order to stay in business. This has nothing to do with solo vs groups.


Whether or not a player plays solo or in groups has no bearing on the overall "community" of the game. I mainly play solo and I like to think of myself as being very active in this community.

[Roadbeer]

Bhael Fire, on 12 March 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

Whether or not a player plays solo or in groups has no bearing on the overall "community" of the game. I mainly play solo and I like to think of myself as being very active in this community.

He said "Communities", these are the communities that sprout up around a game. Guilds, Clans, etc (Or to use the vernacular of this game, Houses, Clans and Merc Corps). Many of these have several hundred active members and are working towards a common "goal".

In these "communities", bonds are formed, "friends" are made and are an additional tie to the game, that in many cases, keeps people playing and paying long after they normally would have.

[Bhael Fire]

Roadbeer, on 12 March 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

He said "Communities", these are the communities that sprout up around a game. Guilds, Clans, etc (Or to use the vernacular of this game, Houses, Clans and Merc Corps). Many of these have several hundred active members and are working towards a common "goal".

In these "communities", bonds are formed, "friends" are made and are an additional tie to the game, that in many cases, keeps people playing and paying long after they normally would have.

But in the bigger picture, these "communities" are small potatoes compared to the masses of solo players. It's foolish to shut these people out to cater only to a smaller portion of the game's fan base.

In other words, in order to stay in business, they can not ostracize players that have no interest in forming "social clubs" and satellite cliques around the game. The majority of their money comes from the solo contingent.

These communities are very important, I agree. But they must not build the game around them. The communities are built around the game....not the other way around.

[Roadbeer]

Bhael Fire, on 12 March 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

But in the bigger picture, these "communities" are small potatoes compared to the masses of solo players. It's foolish to shut these people out to cater only to a smaller portion of the game's fan base.

In other words, in order to stay in business, they can not ostracize players that have no interest in forming "social clubs" and satellite cliques around the game. The majority of their money comes from the solo contingent.

These communities are very important, I agree. But they must not build the game around them. The communities are built around the game....not the other way around.

http://www.slideshar...ion-europe-2013
Slide 43

Quote

Guild members spend 10x-20x more than non-guild members

Taking that data, a small guild of 10 members is likely to have a monetization value of 100 - 200 solo players. Larger communities like House Marik with a couple hundred active members is likely to spend the same as up to 2000 solo players.

Quote

Strong correlation as guilds improve retention and monetization with late stage players

That is to say that members of Guilds are likely to stay longer in the game, compounding the monetization potential over non-guild members.

[Bhael Fire]

Roadbeer, on 12 March 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Taking that data, a small guild of 10 members is likely to have a monetization value of 100 - 200 solo players.

I'm am not arguing about the value of guilds and communities; there's not doubt they are good for a game's continued health.

What I am saying is that they cannot completely sustain a game. In order for a game to stay afloat, they must have the support of the masses. In order to do that, the game can not shut out those masses by catering only to a smaller portion of the community.