271 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

Jon Phoenix, on 17 March 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

I've been trying to get new players into this game for the last 2-3 months. UI2.0 has made that almost an impossible task. Even getting them on teamspeak and talking them through steps is such a turnoff to almost everyone I invite. The learning curve is even worse with 2.0 than 1.5. When I show them smurfy, the response is universally along the lines of, "Wait. I have to go to a third party site to learn this game?" I've had very little success with getting new players to stick with the game. It's really unfortunate, since I play with a group and we would love to be able to field a 12 man team.

Welcome to the island.

Fortunately for PGI a huge number of random people that pug all day seem to be keeping the coffers plum full despite all of our complaining.

[Amsro]

Roadbeer, on 17 March 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

Ummm, which benefits? I get to pay for the privilege to drop with my friends, but receive none of the benefits necessary to 'advance' in the game, and if I wan't to, say buy a new module, I have to go farm the poor downtrodden PUGS? Plus all the 'benifits' of premium time are to be negated in this queue (Cbill, XP bonuses)
And it sounds like I'll either have to know people forming groups to drop against, and jump through another handful of hoops before I can push the launch button.
Forming a 12 man is a big enough pain in the ass, everything described sounds even worse if you're less than 12.


Large groups were 'temporarily' removed over 480 days ago, and according to the interview, it's not likely to be seen in 2014. How is that 'short term'?
Chat system hasn't adequately worked since day one of this game, you want me to pin my hopes of organizing a drop using that?

One more post and this fish is done for! The Roadbeer Bear is hungry, and the fish are just jumping in!

Edited by Amsro, 17 March 2014 - 10:28 AM.

[Jon Phoenix]

Heffay, on 17 March 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Other games also have third party sites where you have to go to learn what an effective build is. For example: World of Warcraft.

"What do you mean I'm better off using a non tier piece in this field? I shouldn't have taken improved concussive shot? But Snake Trap is best trap!!!"

True, but you can play those games without doing so. Those sites are more about meta builds and improving play. MWO is lost on new players without smurfy, unfortunately, unless they stay in trial mechs. But there isn't much fun in that and people will lose interest quickly.

[WarHippy]

Rebas Kradd, on 17 March 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Or maybe the game's not finished yet.

Of course it isn't finished. It is pretty clear that this is nothing more than a demo as you can see by all the partially complete/missing features. I'm having flash backs to the late 90s early 2000s buying a copy of PC Gamer to check out the demos on the CD, but at least those demos didn't have the audacity to ask for money until the game was ready for full release.

[RG Notch]

It's always funny to see certain folk compare MWO to show how other games also have issues or bad features, but try to compare MWO to games that have better features or solved issues and ......

[Heffay]

Jon Phoenix, on 17 March 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

True, but you can play those games without doing so. Those sites are more about meta builds and improving play.

So... exactly the same as MWO then? Good to know.

[AlmightyAeng]

Heffay, on 17 March 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Other games also have third party sites where you have to go to learn what an effective build is. For example: World of Warcraft.

"What do you mean I'm better off using a non tier piece in this field? I shouldn't have taken improved concussive shot? But Snake Trap is best trap!!!"

That's not the point being made. In WoW, while they may put together a SHITE build...they can easily see what they're building. In an easily viewable, low-click screen.

MWO no longer has that. It has hidden charts and a frustratingly long build-time for mech changes...even for vets.

[Jon Phoenix]

Heffay, on 17 March 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

So... exactly the same as MWO then? Good to know.

You build mechs in UI2.0 without touching smurfy? That's like typing with one hand. You can do it, but why?

-Jon (thinks it's clear that smurfy is essential)

Ghost Badger, on 17 March 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

That's not the point being made. In WoW, while they may put together a SHITE build...they can easily see what they're building. In an easily viewable, low-click screen.

MWO no longer has that. It has hidden charts and a frustratingly long build-time for mech changes...even for vets.

Right. UI2.0 is unnecessarily clunky, vague, and time consuming. I figured we had a concensus here that building in smurfy and then transfering the build to UI2.0 was the way to go.

Edited by Jon Phoenix, 17 March 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[Roadbeer]

RG Notch, on 17 March 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

It's always funny to see certain folk compare MWO to show how other games also have issues or bad features, but try to compare MWO to games that have better features or solved issues and ......

I've never liked anyone using those analogies because it's really an apples and truck tires kind of thing. Mostly because they never put things on equal footing, team size, budget, life of development, etc. so, none of them ever seem to work.

The thing that drive me up the wall here are
1. The hubris from on high, "We know fun better than you"
2. The abysmal communication skills.
Every interview with Russ or Bryan will inevitably start a shitstorm because when they try to explain things, it comes off like this.

[Heffay]

Jon Phoenix, on 17 March 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

That's like typing with one hand. You can do it, but why?

Hehehe... there is a very good reason to be able to type one handed.

And I can build a mech without referencing Smurfy because I'm not a complete idiot.

[Deathlike]

Roadbeer, on 17 March 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

I've never liked anyone using those analogies because it's really an apples and truck tires kind of thing. Mostly because they never put things on equal footing, team size, budget, life of development, etc. so, none of them ever seem to work.

The thing that drive me up the wall here are
1. The hubris from on high, "We know fun better than you"
2. The abysmal communication skills.
Every interview with Russ or Bryan will inevitably start a shitstorm because when they try to explain things, it comes off like this.

The closest person that Russ or Bryan reminds me of... is Joe Biden. DO NOT LET THEM SPEAK OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR MONEY.

[RG Notch]

Roadbeer, on 17 March 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

I've never liked anyone using those analogies because it's really an apples and truck tires kind of thing. Mostly because they never put things on equal footing, team size, budget, life of development, etc. so, none of them ever seem to work.

The thing that drive me up the wall here are
1. The hubris from on high, "We know fun better than you"
2. The abysmal communication skills.
Every interview with Russ or Bryan will inevitably start a shitstorm because when they try to explain things, it comes off like this.

I agree that the comparisons are often not like to like, I am just entertained how, again certain parties, will trot out examples of other games doing dumb stuff as justifying why MWO does dumb stuff, but if you use a comparison to say why game X does smart stuff and MWO doesn't....all you get are crickets or they suddenly realize that you aren't comparing like to like. Well it's gotta be tough trying to remain logically consistent and defend the boobs running this show.
I also don't know why anyone questions the expertise of the people in charge. They've been in the "industry" for years. I mean making grade ZZZ shovel ware shooters and console hunting and fishing games should give them the expertise for running a MMO F2P game with a storied IP. Right? Plus looking over the enormous break out success this game has been so far would show you just how much they know.

[Deathlike]

Heffay, on 17 March 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

Hehehe... there is a very good reason to be able to type one handed.

And I can build a mech without referencing Smurfy because I'm not a complete idiot.

You must be "special" then.

I'm sure almost 60 pages of UI 2.0 feedback must be wrong, somehow.

[Jon Phoenix]

Heffay, on 17 March 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

Hehehe... there is a very good reason to be able to type one handed.

And I can build a mech without referencing Smurfy because I'm not a complete idiot.

So you're going to insult new players? Or is that a jab at me? I really don't care if it's directed at me, but it's not cool to rip noobs like that.

You ignored my question above. Do you not use smurfy at all? I would have trouble believing that, since it's easier to use it. Why handicap oneself unnecessarily by not using smurfy? That makes no sense at all.

-Jon (has built mechs in UI2.0 and realized he was being an idiot for wasting his time that way)

Edited by Jon Phoenix, 17 March 2014 - 10:47 AM.

[Davers]

Heffay, on 17 March 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

In Arena? That's interesting, when did that happen?

I wonder if they used any sort of matchmaking for the Arena as well. You would think that some sort of Elo matchmaking would be useful for the competitive side of the game...

I was talking about all the different in game chat channels and the looking for group que, even though there were some bad wait times for popular classes. As for Arena specifically? My interest waned after they pug battlegrounds in, I preferred the 'world' PVP, fighting over Stranglethorn and such. I think I let my account expire before Cataclysm.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Amsro, on 17 March 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

LOLwut?

http://www.reddit.co...ing_a_deadline/

Only in the past Month and a half have they made any reasonable deadlines. Also the little detail of these features missing there previous 2 deadlines by nearly a year combined.

A glimmer of hope in recent times. But their stance on the basic functionality of the game and user interface is just astounding, and the reasoning compounds this to near lunacy.

84% of solo drops due to terrible team limits means people like to drop solo. They aren't even come close to having analyzed the data enough. Nevermind showing us the data of launches BEFORE the 4 man limit was in place. Not like that comparison would be VERY useful.

only in the past month in a half? wout about december and january?this is where you lose me, you site rediti? when they released a roadmap for 2013 and it had late 2012 but instead of using the state post you use redit? are you serious? my word.

Dec 17^th – This patch you’re quite familiar with but it’s a pretty good one and the best in a while. New Skirmish game mode, release of Sabre `Mechs and the release of the Moon map HPG Manifold. I hope this will give players some interest during the holiday break.

Jan 21^st – Cockpit Glass.

Feb 4^th – UI 2.0 released. It will be a complete rework of the existing UI along with some new screens with the store and some others. A lot of feedback has been implemented to improve MechLab and future releases will include a lot of user feedback integration. Overall UI 2.0 on February 4^th is an absolutely MASSIVE feature release, bigger than anything to date. I don’t say that purely based on functionality that UI 2.0 will introduce to MWO. The reason it is considered in my mind the biggest feature release to date is because of the bottlenecks it removes. Everything relied on its release and back end architecture to build off of.

Feb 4^th – Tier 1 weapon modules – Further explanation forthcoming in a Command Chair post later this week.

Feb 4^th – Assault mode refresh/improvements – Includes new Base model to replace the resource collector for a Forward Operating Base truck with the additions of turrets. Helps differentiate it from other modes like Conquest.

March 4^th – DX11 – it has been complete essentially since the last Public test but we have waited to get the Christmas break and UI 2.0 behind us before releasing. Some further exploration into FPS concerns before release. It is possible upon release some will use DX 11 where others will stick with DX9 for frame rate concerns while we continue to optimize it.

March 18^th – Achievement System.-------------------------------all those deadline they hit, right on the nose with no delay. Its fair to argue that some of them were lacking, that cant be helped but it is also fair to say russ said that even tho these are coming out they still need to be worked on. and updates were soon to follow. Does nobody care he said that(nitpickers). like i said before any argument falls flat if you cannot acknowledge your opposition.

[BLOOD WOLF]

The little things in between those landmarks are game play balances which are very important and i dont devalue their impact. At the same time, balance takes a while to achieve and dev time must be manage to get the things they said they were gonna get out done with. Estimates are different than set dates so i'm curious to where this source information comes from, I'm talking about after the state of the IS post. to be fair i guess i cant discredit redit but i weigh the thoughts based on a purely argumentative standpoint and not a biased one. Doesnt it stand to mention and russ always mentioned on the last podcast that the current smurfy wasn't going to be the full one and just the first step, and the reaction was as if they never intended to make a interactive in the first place, when russ clearly said that a better one was one the way(this is a repeated take on an issue but im looking for new thoughts)

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 17 March 2014 - 11:37 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Deathlike, on 17 March 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

The closest person that Russ or Bryan reminds me of... is Joe Biden.

You don't need a Large Pulse Laser, Just get an LBX-10. I told my wife to stand on the Citadel and fire 2 LBX-10 shots into the air and that'll deter the Locusts.

Edited by Roadbeer, 17 March 2014 - 11:35 AM.

[Amsro]

BLOOD WOLF, on 17 March 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

only in the past month in a half? wout about december and january?this is where you lose me, you site rediti? when they released a roadmap for 2013 and it had late 2012 but instead of using the state post you use redit? are you serious? my word.

Dec 17^th – This patch you’re quite familiar with but it’s a pretty good one and the best in a while. New Skirmish game mode, release of Sabre `Mechs and the release of the Moon map HPG Manifold. I hope this will give players some interest during the holiday break.

Skirmish game mode required removing bases from a game mode. That was done on a Tuesday. Still waiting on Caustic Valley alternate that was announced before HPG. Alternates much be far simpler to complete, we should have 2 versions of every map by now. Saber Mechs were complete months before along with Phoenix Mechs. That's an easy deadline to make, its already done.

Jan 21^st – Cockpit Glass.

You mean the feature that was taken out then re-added.
Feb 4^th – UI 2.0 released. It will be a complete rework of the existing UI along with some new screens with the store and some others. A lot of feedback has been implemented to improve MechLab and future releases will include a lot of user feedback integration. Overall UI 2.0 on February 4^th is an absolutely MASSIVE feature release, bigger than anything to date. I don’t say that purely based on functionality that UI 2.0 will introduce to MWO. The reason it is considered in my mind the biggest feature release to date is because of the bottlenecks it removes. Everything relied on its release and back end architecture to build off of.

You mean it was an INcomplete rework, user feedback was ignored during 2 comically short test sessions. Hense the terrible reception and mass confusion the mechlab has created. As far as Bottlenecks the new UI freed up, nothing overly BIG has made its way in yet. See what tomorrow brings.

Feb 4^th – Tier 1 weapon modules – Further explanation forthcoming in a Command Chair post later this week.

Mostly the modules are useless and expensive. See what tier 5 offers, might become useful?
Feb 4^th – Assault mode refresh/improvements – Includes new Base model to replace the resource collector for a Forward Operating Base truck with the additions of turrets. Helps differentiate it from other modes like Conquest.

Assault mode is still 2 base conquest, now it includes turrets. Typically that forces the map to shrink and becomes a mini Skirmish, I will admit that it is a VERY different game mode, but not "assault". That would require ONE base and ONE attacking team.
March 4^th – DX11 – it has been complete essentially since the last Public test but we have waited to get the Christmas break and UI 2.0 behind us before releasing. Some further exploration into FPS concerns before release. It is possible upon release some will use DX 11 where others will stick with DX9 for frame rate concerns while we continue to optimize it.

DX11 is long overdue, FAR from complete and typically users experience less performance even with a DX11 PC. Needs many updates to be come stable and a bonus. (to be fair they did say this a while ago) I'm still waiting for better performance before using it. DX9 still for me.
March 18^th – Achievement System.-------------------------------all those deadline they hit, right on the nose with no delay. Its fair to argue that some of them were lacking, that cant be helped but it is also fair to say russ said that even tho these are coming out they still need to be worked on. and updates were soon to follow. Does nobody care he said that(nitpickers). like i said before any argument falls flat if you cannot acknowledge your opposition.

The stat reset makes this one controversial why can't they just add them in with out resetting your stats. Meh. Hope this helps with new player retention, I for one need not achievements, group tournaments and a use for my mechs would be nice.

<sup>The deadlines for the items you have listed were not previously scheduled, instead they now have a new system wherein they Tweet what is being patched mere weeks before hand, not what I would call making deadlines.

So yes only in the past little while, 2014 have they been announcing then patching without delay, but this is because the announcement period has been reeled in.</sup>

[Amsro]

BLOOD WOLF, on 17 March 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

The little things in between those landmarks are game play balances which are very important and i dont devalue their impact. At the same time, balance takes a while to achieve and dev time must be manage to get the things they said they were gonna get out done with. Estimates are different than set dates so i'm curious to where this source information comes from, I'm talking about after the state of the IS post. to be fair i guess i cant discredit redit but i weigh the thoughts based on a purely argumentative standpoint and not a biased one.

They can't balance what they broke at the start and fail/refuse to fix.

I've lost the post now, but basically MWO is backwards world where clans are inferior and IS mechs are OMNI and heat cap is High and Heat dissipation is low.

I can't keep up and I'm not even die hard BattleTech. I'm sure they have all flown out of the coo-coo house. Once you research the disparity between MechWarrior and this game you realized how much the names are becoming more and more all that is left.

I'm not sure this game would have left Beta if it was called, Bryan and Russ Battle Armor Online! Kinda makes you wonder.