271 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

BLOOD WOLF, on 17 March 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

Dec 17^th – This patch you’re quite familiar with but it’s a pretty good one and the best in a while. New Skirmish game mode, release of Sabre `Mechs and the release of the Moon map HPG Manifold. I hope this will give players some interest during the holiday break.

It's literally Assault minus Turrets and Bases. For reference, Conquest was released 1 year prior to the release of Skirmish. 1 year for 1 new mode! That's breakneck speed in progress!

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Jan 21^st – Cockpit Glass.

Useless and hampering my vision needlessly in all the weirdest ways.

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Feb 4^th – UI 2.0 released. It will be a complete rework of the existing UI along with some new screens with the store and some others. A lot of feedback has been implemented to improve MechLab and future releases will include a lot of user feedback integration. Overall UI 2.0 on February 4^th is an absolutely MASSIVE feature release, bigger than anything to date. I don’t say that purely based on functionality that UI 2.0 will introduce to MWO. The reason it is considered in my mind the biggest feature release to date is because of the bottlenecks it removes. Everything relied on its release and back end architecture to build off of.

Only notable "improvements", the heavily requested "rename mech function" and eventually the "strip mech" function. Both of these could have been implemented in UI 1.5, w/o much fuss, even if it slows down other stuff, but whatever.

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Feb 4^th – Tier 1 weapon modules – Further explanation forthcoming in a Command Chair post later this week.

Mostly useless. I didn't even bother with it due to what they actually did.

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Feb 4^th – Assault mode refresh/improvements – Includes new Base model to replace the resource collector for a Forward Operating Base truck with the additions of turrets. Helps differentiate it from other modes like Conquest.

Oooh, changing the objects on the field. Finally, something heavily requested in Open Beta (1 year ago).

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March 4^th – DX11 – it has been complete essentially since the last Public test but we have waited to get the Christmas break and UI 2.0 behind us before releasing. Some further exploration into FPS concerns before release. It is possible upon release some will use DX 11 where others will stick with DX9 for frame rate concerns while we continue to optimize it.

As of right now, it does't work the way it should (unlikely performance increase, and indirectly affecting DX9 with some of the changes, where it shouldn't be happening).

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March 18^th – Achievement System.-------------------------------all those deadline they hit, right on the nose with no delay. Its fair to argue that some of them were lacking, that cant be helped but it is also fair to say russ said that even tho these are coming out they still need to be worked on. and updates were soon to follow. Does nobody care he said that(nitpickers). like i said before any argument falls flat if you cannot acknowledge your opposition.

Although the Achievement System was kinda in demand, at this point in development, it's primarily pointless filler. Even asking for desired smurfy's mechlab type is far more desired than Achievements (especially when it sounds it it gives a lot of "stuff") but nothing seriously useful for those that have collected all the C-Bills, GXP, and whatnot already.

Yea... if progress is effectively "passing in your homework", despite not completing the entire assignment, then PGI is very successful at that.

[Roadbeer]

Deathlike, on 17 March 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

Yea... if progress is effectively "passing in your homework", despite not completing the entire assignment, then PGI is very successful at that.

I blame Common Core (or whatever Canada's version of it is) where it's more important to show your work, even if it's wrong.

[WarHippy]

Roadbeer, on 17 March 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

You don't need a Large Pulse Laser, Just get an LBX-10. I told my wife to stand on the Citadel and fire 2 LBX-10 shots into the air and that'll deter the Locusts.

I am very glad they keep us IT folks locked away in the basement or it would have been rather embarrassing when this made me laugh out loud suddenly.

[Kenyon Burguess]

NGNG needs to stop with the gentle hand holding of Russ as they sip tea and ask questions. flip some table, and interrogate him dammit.

[Deathlike]

Roadbeer, on 17 March 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

I blame Common Core (or whatever Canada's version of it is) where it's more important to show your work, even if it's wrong.

I was always taught in math, that showing your work was important. So when the teacher "corrected" your test, they could at least see what went wrong in the process... whether you should have added instead of subtracted or forgot to "borrow" or "carry" the 1. At least when you made errors, it would not be considered a catastrophic error, and you'd get partial credit for the process.

In the case of PGI, not only was the process going in the wrong direction (as in, wrong formula for the wrong application/usage), it's being used to justify everything done previously. Thus, gaps in logic are prevalent here... as Russ thinks that having a smurfy-like mechlab is "not as important" as the other things in the mechlab that are seemingly "more important" like worrying about "low resolutions" like 1024x768, which likely a small minority use for this game compared to a game like MW4 where 800x600 did pretty much "everything you needed to or wanted to" in a extremely convenient fashion. I'm not sure what generation Russ is pandering to, but it's not the elite "guy with Core i7 with 24"+ HDTV hooked up to the screen", despite them getting a 4K monitor (which shows how poorly UI 2.0 scales with to boot).

Yea... brilliant?

Edited by Deathlike, 17 March 2014 - 11:57 AM.

[Amsro]

Roadbeer, on 17 March 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

You don't need a Large Pulse Laser, Just get an LBX-10. I told my wife to stand on the Citadel and fire 2 LBX-10 shots into the air and that'll deter the Locusts.

Successful bear is successful.

[wanderer]

Rebas Kradd, on 17 March 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Or maybe the game's not finished yet.

I'm unsure the beta is finished yet at this point. Never mind a "finished game", that much would be obvious to all but the most truly ignorant observer.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Roadbeer, on 17 March 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

I blame Common Core (or whatever Canada's version of it is) where it's more important to show your work, even if it's wrong.

hmm, good point their, i still love how SC showed that in depth look into the making of the game. at the same time anybody who understands how to make a game knows that modeling and rigging can take up a good amount of time. Dev work is timed in months and can take years. some things take weeks or creativity small time, it all depends. Modders i highly resepct, that dev the republic at war mod will tell you the amount of time it takes. I will also tell you all this, when the RAW mod was making the mod and the wait was 5+years just about. the community exploded in rage, so much negativity was geared towards the staff that they almost pulled the plug, they had it.

Poeple were going as far to say, that the team was just hogging the mod for themselves and they never plan to release it and all sorts of negativity. Those were some of the nicest guys i knew, who loved nothing more than to create a new game and so everyone can experience their hard work.

I dont mean to be so defensive, i am doing exactly here what i did for the people on the Moddb RAW page. its just that negativity is not key but being constructive is. I will however say that during the podcast I noticed that Russ, seemed to be obsessed with getting things out. the problem now happens to be if they get things out fast is that a trade-off for quality?. hmm. i think PGI is trying to get things out fast but that gives the idea to give now fix later mentality. I wouldnt go as far as to say that, the have no concern. I wonder?

[N a p e s]

I listenned to what Russ had to say about the first smurfy's build and it doesn't sound quite as bad as it could be. From what I understand you'll be able to click on your mech's right arm which will lead to the UI2.0 view of the right arm. After having completed the mods of said section it brings you back to the smurfy`s view...

It sounds like it accomplishes the job of letting a player see the mech's entire loadout as well as navigating to the proper section of the mech that you want to work on. Is it still more complicated than it has to/should be? Yea... probably. Is it at the very least an improvement on the current system? I believe so.

[BLOOD WOLF]

wanderer, on 17 March 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

I'm unsure the beta is finished yet at this point. Never mind a "finished game", that much would be obvious to all but the most truly ignorant observer.

I wouldnt say beta, i know its wikepeida but i checked multiple sources and its clean. Although MWO didn't have a feature the core game was constructed. in other words what was needed to make sure the game would run sucesfully. Otherwise, you can say all game never truly leave beta because most games are buggy, and always contain errors that are either left alone or fixed later down the road. its open for different takes tho, but keep in mind the stages and try to apply that concept to MWO as if you were there from the beginning.
http://en.wikipedia....ease_life_cycle

[Alex Wolfe]

Thanks for the summary, Peiper. Comedy gold.

[Amsro]

BLOOD WOLF, on 17 March 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

hmm, good point their, i still love how SC showed that in depth look into the making of the game. at the same time anybody who understands how to make a game knows that modeling and rigging can take up a good amount of time. Dev work is timed in months and can take years. some things take weeks or creativity small time, it all depends. Modders i highly resepct, that dev the republic at war mod will tell you the amount of time it takes. I will also tell you all this, when the RAW mod was making the mod and the wait was 5+years just about. the community exploded in rage, so much negativity was geared towards the staff that they almost pulled the plug, they had it.

Poeple were going as far to say, that the team was just hogging the mod for themselves and they never plan to release it and all sorts of negativity. Those were some of the nicest guys i knew, who loved nothing more than to create a new game and so everyone can experience their hard work.

I dont mean to be so defensive, i am doing exactly here what i did for the people on the Moddb RAW page. its just that negativity is not key but being constructive is. I will however say that during the podcast I noticed that Russ, seemed to be obsessed with getting things out. the problem now happens to be if they get things out fast is that a trade-off for quality?. hmm. i think PGI is trying to get things out fast but that gives the idea to give now fix later mentality. I wouldnt go as far as to say that, the have no concern. I wonder?

But they, PGI, haven't been listening to constructive idea's. They ignore the outside ideas until they are finished and then attempt a fix later, burning away precious development time to fix the very foundation they have been building.

I do still have moments of fun in this game, but the enthusiasm and optimism decreases with every botched update/plan/new idea. Especially the ones that contradict the very ideas they came up with.

3PV to help simulate.. wait what?
Ghost Heat to stop you from using all of that High Heat Cap
2-4 max groups To stop Min/Maxers from stomping solo pugs(so the story goes)

None of those things are needed for the MechWarrior experience.

Instead it should be,

1ST person only
Low Heat Cap, High Dissipation (kiss method)
2-12 groups with good game balance this will be less of a boon.

The lack of game balance is getting out of hand, they will be overwhelmed soon I think, unless they fix the core dynamics.

I truly hope the clans won't be the final nail.

[wanderer]

BLOOD WOLF, on 17 March 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

I wouldnt say beta, i know its wikepeida but i checked multiple sources and its clean. Although MWO didn't have a feature the core game was constructed. in other words what was needed to make sure the game would run sucesfully. Otherwise, you can say all game never truly leave beta because most games are buggy, and always contain errors that are either left alone or fixed later down the road. its open for different takes tho, but keep in mind the stages and try to apply that concept to MWO as if you were there from the beginning.
http://en.wikipedia....ease_life_cycle

I pretty much was here from the beginning. The game still isn't running successfully, although it's semi-functional in many ways.

A third-party programmer can build a better Mechlab than the devs did. In less time. That'd be Smurfy.
Group play has repeatedly been revamped in a series of complaintfests. It's still less functional than it should be years into a game, by far. And to their "surprise", group play under a dysfunctional matchmaker system declined!
CW does not exist, despite being described as an essential portion of the game. (Hint: You could even do the most basic form of CW with the -existing matchmaker-, that being faction-based matchups. My sig, *cough cough*)

I see more "graphical updates" than anything else, and frankly- fresh coats of paint don't improve the core of a game. In the case of said paint on one's cockpit glass, I would even call it retrogressive development. We've had portions of the game so "rusty" under the paint that they've fallen apart (DX9) from old age. We've had "balance" actions that took months to alter a simple XML file's numbers,a process an intern could have likely managed in 15 minutes or so with basic competency.

This, too is disappointing and underperforming. If PGI was under Microsoft or another big company, I would be in serious consideration that they'd end up having MWO canned for spending too much time in development hell as it is.

[Roadbeer]

Now I've got that damn "Fire two blasts" song stuck in my head.

[Pyrrho]

So I remember a glorious world full of PUGs and a smorgasbord of multiplayer, competitive games to play:



Different areas (Lobbies!) for different game types. Everyone had a little badge that represented who they were in the lobby and if you clicked on the badge you could see what games that person wanted to play, as well as send them a message or invite to a particular game. You could even select multiple badges at once and group invite other members all at once!

This mystical world was called The Sierra Network (later The Imagination Network) and it was up an running without any significant headaches to the end user for many years.

This was out in 1991. Even if we had just a sliver of that functionality, the community could take care of everything else.

[Roadbeer]

Pyrrho, on 17 March 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

This was out in 1991. Even if we had just a sliver of that functionality, the community could take care of everything else.

Lostech

(sorry Deathlike, I got here first)

Also Lostech

Edited by Roadbeer, 17 March 2014 - 02:34 PM.

[Rebas Kradd]

wanderer, on 17 March 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

We've had portions of the game so "rusty" under the paint that they've fallen apart (DX9) from old age. We've had "balance" actions that took months to alter a simple XML file's numbers,a process an intern could have likely managed in 15 minutes or so with basic competency.

Anybody who expects weapons balance to be a 15-minute process, conveniently removed of all planning/vetting/testing, loses all credibility.

[Pacifist]

I could be mistaken as to which balance issue he refers to but for example the PPC.

At the end of closed beta the PPC was relatively balanced. Then a coding change in the game caused it not to register sometimes.

To make up for that until they fixed it they reduced the amount of heat it created. Then they fixed the hit registration issue without increasing the heat generated. They then made the Gauss Rifle round the same speed as the PPC projectile. This led to the great era of 4x PPC 1x Gauss builds. Which finally ended with ghost heat a undocumented system composed entirely of overcomplicated ideas. This led to the Era of 2x PPC 1 Guass. Which ended with the charge up system.

All of which could have been avoided easily by a edit to an XML file.

Edited by DarwinsDisciple, 17 March 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[AntharPrime]

wanderer, on 17 March 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

I pretty much was here from the beginning. The game still isn't running successfully, although it's semi-functional in many ways.

Actually the correct term is "minimally viable:.

wanderer, on 17 March 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

A third-party programmer can build a better Mechlab than the devs did. In less time. That'd be Smurfy.

Which essentially is just a slightly more efficient mechlab than in previous MW titles.

wanderer, on 17 March 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

Group play has repeatedly been revamped in a series of complaintfests. It's still less functional than it should be years into a game, by far. And to their "surprise", group play under a dysfunctional matchmaker system declined!
CW does not exist, despite being described as an essential portion of the game. (Hint: You could even do the most basic form of CW with the -existing matchmaker-, that being faction-based matchups. My sig, *cough cough*)

I have never understood why they haven't done this. All this would require is the addition of a few lines of code to accomplish.

wanderer, on 17 March 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

I see more "graphical updates" than anything else, and frankly- fresh coats of paint don't improve the core of a game. In the case of said paint on one's cockpit glass, I would even call it retrogressive development. We've had portions of the game so "rusty" under the paint that they've fallen apart (DX9) from old age. We've had "balance" actions that took months to alter a simple XML file's numbers,a process an intern could have likely managed in 15 minutes or so with basic competency.

I remember that the graphics were beautiful and clear, then they added the haze, then they added the brown tint, then they added the glare and now we have hazzy cockpit glass. It should be called Glaucomawarrior Online.

wanderer, on 17 March 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

This, too is disappointing and underperforming. If PGI was under Microsoft or another big company, I would be in serious consideration that they'd end up having MWO canned for spending too much time in development hell as it is.

Game developers used to be canned if they were a couple of months late and projects were given a different devoper in the past.

[Peiper]

miSs, on 17 March 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

To whom it may concern:

Out of respect for the OP, who takes the time to do these nice transcripts, could you pretty please avoid insulting each other and spamming the thread with images and videos? I know you guys are capable of debating with respect...

Thanks in advance ™

You are my hero! I like a lively debate, but this is like watching two cartoons clowns popping out of holes and taking turns bashing each other over the head with gigantic wooden mallets. Though I am guilty of returning to a thread to argue or defend my points from time to time, I am astounded by the repetition from a few of the people involved here. Then again, wars are avoided because diplomats won't shut up enough to let the warlords declare war! Today is St. Patrick's Day. Have a shot o' Whiskey or a pint o' stout and take a night off from bashing each other with giant mallets. Oy!

Geist Null, on 17 March 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

NGNG needs to stop with the gentle hand holding of Russ as they sip tea and ask questions. flip some table, and interrogate him dammit.

I picture an internal debate over this going on at NGNG all the time. Well, we want PGI guys as guests so we can help keep the community in the know, so we have to be nice to him and pre-screen all the questions. But, I'm sure there are a few guys who are just as frustrated over there because they have to stick to certain questions. I know that with the podcast I was involved with, we had to pass questions to the guest for approval before the show started. It's just the way it is. But, yeah, I'd like to flip some tables too!

Edited by Peiper, 17 March 2014 - 03:47 PM.