75 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

How many people run
Ferro-Fibrous Armor- just curious

[TercieI]

Anyone who owns lights?

I run it wherever it helps: most lights, AC/20 and some other mediums (Streaktaro comes to mind), a few heavies. I don't think I have any assaults with it, but there are a few possible builds (though less since JJ nerf). This isn't a question about players, but about specific mech designs, at least if they're competently designed.

[BLOOD WOLF]

yea, that's some buddies said, and i admit that i put it on my locust but i decided that i will run it on my banshee.

I know endo is preferred because it frees up tonnage but FF provides extra protection.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 20 March 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Lol...I came here fully expecting to find a rant on "Friendly Fire."

Because Ferro and Endo cost the same number of slots, but Endo gives you more tonnage, you rarely see Ferro. There ARE some builds (mainly lights) that benefit from the increased tonnage and have more slots than they can use...

But the bigger the mech, the less often it's worth the tradeoff to use Ferro AND Endo.

[Fut]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

yea, that's some buddies said, and i admit that i put it on my locust but i decided that i will run it on my banshee.

I know endo is preferred because it frees up tonnage but FF provides extra protection.

This is a common misconception, right?
From what I've read, FF provides no extra protection at all. It simply makes your armor weigh less while taking up more room on your Mech.

Kind of wish it did allow for more Armor to be applied to the Mech using it though.

Anyhow... Can somebody who's not as lazy as I am confirm this?

[Zerberus]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

yea, that's some buddies said, and i admit that i put it on my locust but i decided that i will run it on my banshee.

I know endo is preferred because it frees up tonnage but FF provides extra protection.

No, it doesn`t, and I can`t believe people still believe this 1,5 yeears after CB ended....

All it does is make your armor lighter and bulkier. Yopu do not get to spend more armor points than before.

So yes, it offers more protection "per ton", but it does not allow you to somehow increase your protection beyond maximum. 400 points is 400 points, no matter what they`re made of. Even 400 points of paper armor is still 400 points of armor, not 401 or more.

If you can`t reach max armor values due to weight, endo is still recommended, because it frees up much more tonnage which allows you to apply significantly more armor thatn switching to FF does in comparison.

Edited by Zerberus, 20 March 2014 - 07:15 AM.

[Turist0AT]

No never, need them slots.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Guys do your research, FF does give more protection. Use sarna or whatever other resource

[AlmightyAeng]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

Guys do your research, FF does give more protection. Use sarna or whatever other resource

This is incorrect. Sarna relates to the board game. MWO is not the board game.

In MWO Ferro Fibrous armor makes the SAME armor values lighter while taking up more slots.

If you max armor on Standard and Ferro your protection is IDENTICAL. Go to the mechlab. Look at your armor values with Standard, and with Ferro. Nothing changes.

The one situation where I can see this being confusing is where you are FULL on tonnage, do NOT have armor maxed out, and 14 slots available. In that case, you can take Ferro and use the small gain in tonnage to add more armor...but the maximum possible armor values do NOT increase compared to Standard.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 20 March 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Its differnt in the BT universe as FF provides 12%better protection as the clans is better by a small percentage but As for MWO heres a link http://mwo.gamepedia...o_Fibrous_Armor

[Prezimonto]

Ghost Badger, on 20 March 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

Lol...I came here fully expecting to find a rant on "Friendly Fire."

Because Ferro and Endo cost the same number of slots, but Endo gives you more tonnage, you rarely see Ferro. There ARE some builds (mainly lights) that benefit from the increased tonnage and have more slots than they can use...

But the bigger the mech, the less often it's worth the tradeoff to use Ferro AND Endo.

It's not even all that useful on all lights, as the freed tonnage is pretty small, and some lights still need the slots for extra DHS or JJ.

Really it needs to be remade into an honest defensive upgrade, rather than the crappier brother of Endosteel.

Imagine if FF actually increased the number of points of armor you can pack onto your mech, or if it allowed you to bias the armor numbers towards the torsos.

[AlmightyAeng]

Prezimonto, on 20 March 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

It's not even all that useful on all lights, as the freed tonnage is pretty small, and some lights still need the slots for extra DHS or JJ.

Really it needs to be remade into an honest defensive upgrade, rather than the crappier brother of Endosteel.

Imagine if FF actually increased the number of points of armor you can pack onto your mech, or if it allowed you to bias the armor numbers towards the torsos.

That would turn it into a thoughtful choice...rather than an automatic preference

[Zerberus]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

Guys do your research, FF does give more protection. Use sarna or whatever other resource

Research you say?

How about hands on extensive testing since the first time some misinformed dolt brought this notion up almost 2 years ago?

How about reading the archived dev posts on the matter from that timeframe (you`ve been here long enough, you know where to look)?

In 2 years + I have not oince seen a mech "take" mor damage than his points of armor would allow.

So, I challenge you to present non anecdotal proof.

Where is your 12,x% damage reductiuon that people still think is there because the passage on sarna is badly worded?

Where are the atlases with 150points of CT armor or the equivalent thereof?

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

Its differnt in the BT universe as FF provides 12%better protection as the clans is better by a small percentage but As for MWO heres a link http://mwo.gamepedia...o_Fibrous_Armor

And EVEN HERE it says you`RE misinformed, and I quote:

Quote

Ferro-Fibrous Armor (FF) is an advanced armor technology. Utilizing a weave of ferro-steel, ferro-titanium and diamond weave fibers (which boosts the tensile strength of the plating) it provides more protection per ton than Standard Armor. With the same amount of protection, the material is lighter, but larger, and therefore takes up more space on the mounted vessel.

• Ferro-Fibrous Armor provides 12% more armor per ton, but consumes 14 Critical Slots.

Let`s read that again, out loud:

With the same amount of protection, the material is lighter, but larger, and therefore takes up more space on the mounted vessel.

You were saying?

Edited by Zerberus, 20 March 2014 - 07:27 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

Its differnt in the BT universe as FF provides 12%better protection as the clans is better by a small percentage but As for MWO heres a link http://mwo.gamepedia...o_Fibrous_Armor

Bloodwolf, thank you for confirming exactly what I've said.

"Ferro-Fibrous Armor (FF) is an advanced armor technology. Utilizing a weave of ferro-steel, ferro-titanium and diamond weave fibers (which boosts the tensile strength of the plating) it provides more protection per ton than Standard Armor. With the same amount of protection, the material is lighter, but larger, and therefore takes up more space on the mounted vessel.
Ferro-Fibrous Armor provides 12% more armor per ton, but consumes 14 Critical Slots."

So, go into the mechlab. Set your armor values at full using Standard armor. Take note of your tonnage.

Switch to Ferro-Fibrous. Look at your armor values. They are identical. But you've gained tonnage! That extra tonnage is 12% of the weight your Standard armor was using.

If your tonnage stayed the same and your armor values increased, THEN it would be doing what you think it does.

However, it DOESN'T. Those armor values are static.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 20 March 2014 - 07:25 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Zerberus, on 20 March 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

Research you say?

How about hands on extensive testing since the first time some misinformed dolt brought this notion up almost 2 years ago?

How about reading the archived dev posts on the matter from that timeframe (you`ve been here long enough, you know where to look)?

In 2 years + I have not oince seen a mech "take" mor damage than his points of armor would allow.

So, I challenge you to present non anecdotal proof.

Where is your 12,x% damage reductiuon that people still think is there because the passage on sarna is badly worded?

Where are the atlases with 150points of CT armor or the equivalent thereof?

okay man, okay. by all acounts it adds protection

[Prezimonto]

Ghost Badger, on 20 March 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

That would turn it into a thoughtful choice...rather than an automatic preference

That should be the goal in adapting this game from table top. We don't have a setting to actually differentiate the two, and because choices for defense in the game are so limited and accuracy to high compared to table top, everyone packs full armor nor nearly full armor.

FF is at least as common as Endo (all by itself) because it's the easier upgrade to pack on the mech... techs can handle the job on sight, and Endo needs to be done in a factory. Here none of the matters, and so FF is just worse.

[AlmightyAeng]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

okay man, okay. by all acounts it adds protection

Wrong. It makes the same amount of protection lighter (you gain tonnage) but bulkier (takes up 14 slots). The actual protective value remains CONSTANT.

[EyeOne]

Zerberus, on 20 March 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

No, it doesn`t, and I can`t believe people still believe this 1,5 yeears after CB ended....

I can understand why it's confusing. It can be hard to explain without making it confusing. A simple note that it doesn't allow for armor above your mech's maximum would solve it. But it DOES offer more protection per ton, but in reality it's no different than the extra protection that Endo offers (just freeing up more weight for armor if you choose).

But in the end, Endo, Ferro and XLs are just trading weight for slots. It's that simple.

Edited by EyeOne, 20 March 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Ghost Badger, on 20 March 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

Wrong. It makes the same amount of protection lighter (you gain tonnage) but bulkier (takes up 14 slots). The actual protective value remains CONSTANT.

FF is supposed to make the plating stronger at the same time lighten the mech

[AlmightyAeng]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 March 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

FF is supposed to make the plating stronger at the same time lighten the mech

You can certainly have an opinion on what it SHOULD do.

I'm telling you what it DOES in MWO, the way PGI has coded it.

Hell, there are ENDLESS threads about people discussing how PGI has implemented things differently from how they work in BattleTech:

ECM
BAP
JJ
Ferro Fibrous Armor
Armor Values
Laser beam duration
Firing Rate of All Weapons
Internal Structure Points
Gauss Rifle Charging
GHOST HEAT
Etc
Etc
Etc

In translating the game into an FPS, they've made LOTS of changes to how things work...some people hate it, some people don't care. I'm not arguing the positive or negative effect of how PGI has chosen to code things...I'm just trying to help you understand the way it currently works in MechWarrior Online.

Cheers.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 20 March 2014 - 07:37 AM.