150 replies to this topic

[Too Much Love]

Maybe it's not LRM-apocalypse that used to be, but game balance is spoiled.

Now it is less brawling, less mobility, more hiding and more standing in one place under your team's single DDC.

[No Guts No Glory]

drunkblackstar, on 22 March 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Maybe it's not LRM-apocalypse that used to be, but game balance is spoiled.

Now it is less brawling, less mobility, more hiding and more standing in one place under your team's single DDC.

And from the matches I've been in, it's been the exact opposite. Except for that one match on alpine where it was a team of AC/PPC snipers on the mountain, and my team of the same, which proceeded to not move from behind cover for 15 minutes, because, that was totally more engaging then anything else.

[Ajantise]

No Guts No Glory, on 22 March 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

And from the matches I've been in, it's been the exact opposite. Except for that one match on alpine where it was a team of AC/PPC snipers on the mountain, and my team of the same, which proceeded to not move from behind cover for 15 minutes, because, that was totally more engaging then anything else.

From the matches I've been in, it's been the exact opposite of what you write now....
The start all are in the group under the ECM, then ligths move in with the tags and narcs. 60% of both teams are crippled by LRMs , then a few leftovers fight in the cover and then who wins kills the LRM boats... Not fun, not fun at all..... More like badly broken balance of the game. It is very annoying to have to prove something that obvious? Are people that stupid?

[Kaeb Odellas]

drunkblackstar, on 22 March 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Maybe it's not LRM-apocalypse that used to be, but game balance is spoiled.

Now it is less brawling, less mobility, more hiding and more standing in one place under your team's single DDC.

At what point since the Highlander was introduced was brawling strong? It's been poptart hell for almost a year now. At least now brawlers have lrm boats to kill, instead of just pinpoint PPC+ballistic builds that are dangerous at all ranges.

[No Guts No Glory]

So essentially, the team that played better won.

LRMs supported the brawlers.

Brawlers were smart enough to fight within cover.

One sides brawlers lost.

Remaining LRM mechs get owned by remaining brawlers.

LRMs without support get killed.

My god you're right! They really are broken, you can't use any loadout or tactic other than LRM spam!

[Mcgral18]

Ajantise, on 22 March 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

So 10 TAG lasers and 500 LRMs flying is fine? Hiding 90% of the time is fine? Are you blind?
If they made AC100 what would you say then? I get killed in one shoot 90% of the time , but is FINE?

Well, we have a 14 ton AC70, and a 6 ton AC40....so we're not that far off actually.

Aside from that, perhaps you should learn to play in a game where you can't laugh at LRMs. They are still a shadow of their former self, but you can't even handle that. Imagine when SRMs register more than 60% of the time, the tears...

[Rex Budman]

Eddrick, on 22 March 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

What?! If you are running around in the open (regardless of Mech). You were/are not only LRM bait. But also, Sniper bait. Don't run in the open.

So sit in cover for the entire match?

What about if you get tagged behind cover? You do realize proper cover is only available to some maps, and then some spawn points?

People like you just troll thinking you are a superior player; spouting crap about cover. We all know about cover - we already use it. But when a light mech cannot do its job, something is extremely wrong.

AMS sucks ECM bubbles LRMs hit way too fast way too hard and way too many of them to counter. Where's your argument now? Oh I can gather it; "Play better". Not exactly worthy of listening to.

Mcgral18, on 22 March 2014 - 09:47 PM, said:

Well, we have a 14 ton AC70, and a 6 ton AC40....so we're not that far off actually.

Aside from that, perhaps you should learn to play in a game where you can't laugh at LRMs. They are still a shadow of their former self, but you can't even handle that. Imagine when SRMs register more than 60% of the time, the tears...

Shadow of their former self? Which rendition? The changes they made that had to be reverted and nerfed, or are you saying that pre-patch was as powerful as it is now?

What garbage are you spewing out today Mcgral

[Mcgral18]

Rex Budman, on 22 March 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

So sit in cover for the entire match?

What about if you get tagged behind cover? You do realize proper cover is only available to some maps, and then some spawn points?

People like you just troll thinking you are a superior player; spouting crap about cover. We all know about cover - we already use it. But when a light mech cannot do its job, something is extremely wrong.

AMS sucks ECM bubbles LRMs hit way too fast way too hard and way too many of them to counter. Where's your argument now? Oh I can gather it; "Play better". Not exactly worthy of listening to.



Shadow of their former self? Which rendition? The changes they made that had to be reverted and nerfed, or are you saying that pre-patch was as powerful as it is now?

What garbage are you spewing out today Mcgral

Did LRMs not use to go 250 M/s, while doing 1.5 damage per missile? Ours seem pretty pathetic compared to that. Even without broken splash.

Also, play better.

[Rex Budman]

Mcgral18, on 22 March 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

Did LRMs not use to go 250 M/s, while doing 1.5 damage per missile? Ours seem pretty pathetic compared to that. Even without broken splash.

Also, play better.

Man you must spend more time in forums waiting to troll then actually playing MWO.

The game is off balance. Can you please define "Better"? Do you need to consult the Richard Dawkins website?

[Sephlock]

Bone Mutilator, on 22 March 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

Now it's a fire support standoff game. Did PGI decide brawling was too violent? Nowadays when I get into a brawl, it feels like a rare exception.

Correction: Now the lower ELOs are getting a taste of what it's like up top.

[Mcgral18]

Rex Budman, on 22 March 2014 - 09:59 PM, said:

Man you must spend more time in forums waiting to troll then actually playing MWO.

The game is off balance. Can you please define "Better"? Do you need to consult the Richard Dawkins website?

Well, I only played a handful of matches today, but I had a dozen 12 man drops the other night, those were pretty fun. 22 tube Shawdowhawk most of the time, with mediocre results.

The only thing that needs balance is the players. Apparently some are smart enough to stay in cover, while others rush into the open and die horribly...due to the "super duper OP LRMs" which deal spread damage over the entire mech.

Better would be using cover and patience, tactics and cunning, or just using arty+FLD effectively. The LRMs would never hit you under the right circumstances.

Play better was also a jab at your quote, since while there are many members who offered to help you, you told them to go and NARC themselves. And you apparently keep dying to balanced weaponry.

Perhaps you need to play the game a tad more.

[Rex Budman]

Mcgral18, on 22 March 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

Well, I only played a handful of matches today, but I had a dozen 12 man drops the other night, those were pretty fun. 22 tube Shawdowhawk most of the time, with mediocre results.

The only thing that needs balance is the players. Apparently some are smart enough to stay in cover, while others rush into the open and die horribly...due to the "super duper OP LRMs" which deal spread damage over the entire mech.

Better would be using cover and patience, tactics and cunning, or just using arty+FLD effectively. The LRMs would never hit you under the right circumstances.

Play better was also a jab at your quote, since while there are many members who offered to help you, you told them to go and NARC themselves. And you apparently keep dying to balanced weaponry.

Perhaps you need to play the game a tad more.

You assume I am dieing, or my KD is off or lower due to the LRMs. Is it possible, perhaps, that my observations are not based on my being pummeled constantly by LRM fire? No of-course not, since you are the mater of the mech.

The fact that you give the same old garbage advice ie. Cover and patience, just goes to show that the game has indeed changed, rendering the brawler class useless. Patience? you have a 15 minute timer, 50 percent of the match is spent under the tallest cover available. The rest of the map is a no mans land. Assaults, brawlers; they all sit in a big fat drum circle smoking a doobie passed to the left hand side.

Is this the future of MWO? OP LRMs keeping us stand-offish behind the LIMITED amount of cover the maps offer?

Those players CAn go NARC themselves because it's troll advice. You cannot, in all reason and rationality genuinely consider the state of affairs as balanced, and accommodating to the initial intention of the classes offered.

[Mcgral18]

Rex Budman, on 22 March 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

Those players CAn go NARC themselves because it's troll advice. You cannot, in all reason and rationality genuinely consider the state of affairs as balanced, and accommodating to the initial intention of the classes offered.

I certainly can, I'm enjoying this LRM spam much more than the PPC AC spam of last week, but now it's about 50/50. People are discovering that pinpoint frontloaded is better than slow speed, spread all over damage.

But, having more than just FLD weapons be effective is indeed a good thing. Why you cannot see that, I understand.

At any rate, my SRMs still have a hard time working, so I am still pretty disappointed. But at least I can get under 200M missing only an arm or two and sandblasted armor, instead of a missing torso.

[Kjudoon]

Ace Selin, on 22 March 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

LRMs were a support weapon, meant to keep mechs under some cover, ward them away, they still got plenty kills. Now LRMs are the uber killing weapons. So overpowered, so little effort, so little risk.

Tonight I played in a match with 12 other LRM mechs versus an AC meta deck with 3DDCs, 6 CTF and 3ECM Spiders. We lost. We had to use turrets to kill the last two CTF, and that left me standing trying to fight with a DDC atlas and 1 MPL. Needless to say, even the 2 remaining turrets could not turn the tide and we lost. It was a test to see how OP the LRMs had become. Result after 2 matches. one ending 12-11, and the other a solid 12-4 loss is LRMs need a bigger buff to become on par with the LRM jump snipe/brawl meta build that currently rules competative play, and by extension PUG play.

What does this mean? Good players with big slow mechs can and do counter the LRM enhancements (Even when running 4 narced out scouts which really did enhance things much for us, are not going to beat good players who know how to work together, use cover, and smart tactics. It came down to a huge brawl at the end, and that's what they did. Took their lumps and were down 3-0 before starting to roll our LRM team. In the end it was the turrets that are seriously OP that turned the tide.

I ended up the last man standing and still got 2 kills 7 assists and 600+ damage. That was a good match.

LRMs are not OP. I see no evidence of it. Bad players are the issue. Adapt or ragequit.

[Rex Budman]

Mcgral18, on 22 March 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

I certainly can, I'm enjoying this LRM spam much more than the PPC AC spam of last week, but now it's about 50/50. People are discovering that pinpoint frontloaded is better than slow speed, spread all over damage.

But, having more than just FLD weapons be effective is indeed a good thing. Why you cannot see that, I understand.

At any rate, my SRMs still have a hard time working, so I am still pretty disappointed. But at least I can get under 200M missing only an arm or two and sandblasted armor, instead of a missing torso.

Huh? You're kidding, right? No you're not, I know - no need to answer that.

They hit VERY hard, Mcgral. They hit hard and fast - they are following Zap Brannigan's law. With a 180 meter threshold, they might as well be direct fire weapons. All it took to take me down in my last match was one TAG, and an LRM cat.

In fact, I ran into cover, got out of LOS, and my lock remained, and they kept hitting me long after I was dead.

You didn't really answer my question though, you tip toed around it something fierce.

They're beyond effective, Mcgral, theyre over effective and supported by other weaponry. They require no aim, have little travel time, and hit very hard. No way you can compare that to PPC or AC. Both hit direct, but have a cooldown, require AIM (this magical thing that seems to be a lost idea) and only inflict minor damage. Ten points for a PPC is nice, but its no where near as effective as you make it out to be.

In fact I have the right mind to say that if you honestly found PPC to be that bothersom, maybe you should learn to Torso-twist to mitigate to other parts of your mech? PPC's such donkey balls! I took them off my Jester for Large LAsers instead!

[No Guts No Glory]

Rex Budman, on 22 March 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

The fact that you give the same old garbage advice ie. Cover and patience...

If cover and patience is garbage advice, I'm sorry but the problem isn't the LRMs. It's you.

The open areas of the map is no mans land? It was like that during the AC/PPC meta too.

You do realize, the shorter the missiles travel, the flatter their trajectory right? Get close enough and even the short buildings on frostcovered city eat them for you.

Get better. LRMs are fine. If you didn't whine about the AC/PPC meta, there is no reason to whine about a more easily countered weapon system.

[Mcgral18]

Rex Budman, on 22 March 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

Huh? You're kidding, right? No you're not, I know - no need to answer that.

They hit VERY hard, Mcgral. They hit hard and fast - they are following Zap Brannigan's law. With a 180 meter threshold, they might as well be direct fire weapons. All it took to take me down in my last match was one TAG, and an LRM cat.

In fact, I ran into cover, got out of LOS, and my lock remained, and they kept hitting me long after I was dead.

You didn't really answer my question though, you tip toed around it something fierce.

They're beyond effective, Mcgral, theyre over effective and supported by other weaponry. They require no aim, have little travel time, and hit very hard. No way you can compare that to PPC or AC. Both hit direct, but have a cooldown, require AIM (this magical thing that seems to be a lost idea) and only inflict minor damage. Ten points for a PPC is nice, but its no where near as effective as you make it out to be.

In fact I have the right mind to say that if you honestly found PPC to be that bothersom, maybe you should learn to Torso-twist to mitigate to other parts of your mech? PPC's such donkey balls! I took them off my Jester for Large LAsers instead!

You see, at 1.1 damage per missile, they really don't do much. You can twist the damage since it's neither frontloaded, nor pinpoint. PPCs and ACs on the other hand, with massed pinpoint alphas ranging from 20-45 cannot even be twisted, since they inflict all their damage instantly. Impossible to twist, only to offer a sacrificial limb and hope the shooter is less skilled, and will take the shot rather than wait and kill your torso.

30-40 damage instantly applied where you want is more effective than 25-70 damage applied over 5 different components, if they even all hit.

The skill it takes to aim is minimal, just the same as it takes to keep a lock. Both methods will kill you given enough time and a sliver of skill.

The pinpoint FLD is much more imbalanced than the 60+ LRM boats, but they both kill each other, so that makes them have some sort of balance. Now if only all weapons could do such a thing....

[Rex Budman]

No Guts No Glory, on 22 March 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

If cover and patience is garbage advice, I'm sorry but the problem isn't the LRMs. It's you.

The open areas of the map is no mans land? It was like that during the AC/PPC meta too.

You do realize, the shorter the missiles travel, the flatter their trajectory right? Get close enough and even the short buildings on frostcovered city eat them for you.

Get better. LRMs are fine. If you didn't whine about the AC/PPC meta, there is no reason to whine about a more easily countered weapon system.

Roflmao - if you can't manage to dodge or mitigate a PPC that inflicts 10dmg direct, then you really need help. They need aim - even AC's have shell drop physics in place, roflmao. It was more than possible to mitigate and run across to another form of cover. PPC's are weak as piss roflmao oh my god - and you have the nerve to say I'm the reason LRM's are too effective? Oh dear god someone get me a beer!

[Too Much Love]

Everybody is telling their own story. I can only tell what I see and what I feel about that.

Previously, the game was almost perfectly balanced. After they tweaked the jump jets and buffed pulses the only problem was Gauss. But the rest was OK.

In that meta I could brawl, use LRMs, jump sniping - and I did it all effectively.

Now I don't use LRMs, I can kill and win without them, but it feels that they were buffed too much and it affects the game in the negative way. As I said, there are less mobility, more hiding and it is not fun.

Edited by drunkblackstar, 22 March 2014 - 10:31 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Rex Budman, on 22 March 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

Roflmao - if you can't manage to dodge or mitigate a PPC that inflicts 10dmg direct, then you really need help. They need aim - even AC's have shell drop physics in place, roflmao. It was more than possible to mitigate and run across to another form of cover. PPC's are weak as piss roflmao oh my god - and you have the nerve to say I'm the reason LRM's are too effective? Oh dear god someone get me a beer!

And here the scrub comes out. No, it's not a single PPC, just like it isn't a single LRM10. It's 2 PPCs plus your choice of dakka, for a pinpoint frontloaded alpha of 25-45. Which cripples anything under 60 tons in a single shot, let alone the following alphas in under 10 seconds.

Please, stop being such a ***********.