150 replies to this topic

[topgun505]

The main point of contention is that right now it is TOO effective in that role. And there's the rub. Making them effective in one respect without making them overpowered in the other (regarding using them in a direct vs indirect role).

Although, to be honest, while they don't do pinpoint in a direct role ... they seem to be perfectly effective to me when used direct. They just don't kill you in 2 shots like the pinpoint meta does (but again, that's yet another thread). heh.

Mcgral18, on 22 March 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

Indirect fire is one of the few advantages LRMs have over it.

[Odins Fist]

Mazzyplz, on 22 March 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

so what flavor of the month did i take?

Did I say you made a FOTM build..?? Nope.

Did I say that you have changed your loadouts to deal with them or adapt..?? Yes

Odins Fist, on 22 March 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

B: I think we both know that a large number of people do not run builds that are going to get ruined by what the popular builds are at the time, they are going to die a lot at first, then they switch over to some degree, we have seen this time and time again as weapons balance happens, it goes hand and hand. Just a fact.

C: So you have never switched your loadout a little to help deal with what's the flavor of the month.
I doubt that highly, more then highly. Don't try to sell me that you run all the exact same builds from closed beta, i'm not buying it.

Edited by Odins Fist, 22 March 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[3rdworld]

I don't think they are too fast.

I think locks are too easy to get, and maintain too long after LoS is broken.

[Mazzyplz]

Odins Fist, on 22 March 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

So you have never switched your loadout a little to help deal with what's the flavor of the month.

but that's the thing, i didn't "switch my loadout a little".
i plain gave up on a loadout and kept the ones that weren't completely screwed. so still, no.

edit: oh and it didn't have anything to do with the flavor of the month like you said, it was direct response to a nerf on my weaps.
i still dont care what the enemy is bringing

Edited by Mazzyplz, 22 March 2014 - 09:36 AM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

SundayElite, on 22 March 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

It is no longer fun. Period.

Saturday night. Just finished a 12 hour day and looking forward to some rounds with mates. Start working through the 2xXP bonuses on all my Hero mechs. 6 games and the drawn out standoffish lrm infested games are grating. Screw this, early night for me. Another long day tomorrow anyways.

I'm a farmer. I spend all my time working, but up until Wednesday I've enjoyed a few hours a night playing MWO. I've spent a shit load on this game as I spend my time making RL money. Some might call me a whale and a noob. I am neither. What I am is not playing again until lrms are fixed. Hell they werent even broken. They are a support weapon.

Thoroughly PISSED OFF.

What a perfectly special little snowflake. Nothing new to say, but creates a whole new thread to cry about LRMs.

They are better....everyone is testing them, so get over it.

Or you could, you know, grow a pair and learn to deal with them. Change your tactics and builds. Or go play Roblox...lots of shooter games full of kids you can gank and feel special.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mavairo, on 22 March 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Yeah, but most people don't want to use stuff like AMS, my lance and I ran 4 deep most the night and 8/12 drops we were the only ones packing AMS. Not so coincidentally, we were also the least phased by LRM fire, while we moved cover to cover and opened up the LRM carriers, with our can openers. People have gotten lazy with the old meta. They figure soft rolling hills will protect them.

I run AMS on virtually nothing. HAven't died and only been rarely significantly damaged by LRMs yet. So I don't find AMS as essential, except possible on the big boys, who can't grab cover as easy. I also own no ECM mechs.

But I really don't care if people don't want to carry AMS. I don't want the 1.5 ton tax to have to mount BAP if I want to use SSRMs to any effectiveness, but I do it, because that is what the current "balance" requires.

[Zerberus]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

I run AMS on virtually nothing. HAven't died and only been rarely significantly damaged by LRMs yet. So I don't find AMS as essential, except possible on the big boys, who can't grab cover as easy. I also own no ECM mechs.

But I really don't care if people don't want to carry AMS. I don't want the 1.5 ton tax to have to mount BAP if I want to use SSRMs to any effectiveness, but I do it, because that is what the current "balance" requires.

The problem, as usual, is people having their own personal set in stone vision of what MWO should be and completely refusing to deviate from or modify that.

As a direct result, they stay oblivious to numerous other possibilities which they just might find equally if not more entertaining. Not to mention that they deprive themselves the chance to improve as a player by never trying domething different.

But hey, if people wish to continue to suck, I`m all for it, more kills and c-bills for us.

Edited by Zerberus, 22 March 2014 - 09:43 AM.

[Odins Fist]

Zerberus, on 22 March 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

The problem, as usual, is people having their own personal set in stone vision of what MWO should be and completely refusing to deviate from or modify that.

I agree mostly, but an ever changing weapons balance dance has many people wishing it would be set, and then left alone.
You know instead of every couple of months forcing them to adapt.
I think that's the main issue that people forget to look at.

[Mystere]

Mad Porthos, on 22 March 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

You know, I hope this passes. The screaming, whining and rage. The other side of it, too, the L2play responses. It's a game, we take it too seriously. I CAN take it seriously, but I choose not to. Why? Because taking it "seriously" makes it become less fun...

Which is why I find the whiny portion of the player base absolutely f*****g hilarious. MWO does not give out any medals that matter. There are no cash awards of any significance. There is no real-world acclaim that makes people stop and stare. It's just a freaking fighting game involving giant walking machines of death (which of course is really cool!).

Boys, boys, boys. Don't take things so seriously. It's just a video game meant to allow people to have fun. If you are not having fun, the proverbial door is just over there.

Get some sunshine (if Down Under) or ski some slopes (if up high or up north). Roll some dice. Drink some booze. Get laid. Do something else if you are not having fun.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odins Fist, on 22 March 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

I agree mostly, but an ever changing weapons balance dance has many people wishing it would be set, and then left alone.
You know instead of every couple of months forcing them to adapt.
I think that's an issue that people forget to look at.

FTFY

the main issues are pinpoint convergence and a broken mechlab that rewards minmax and boating. Everything else is pretty much just symptoms of those 2 problems.

When Paul and company ever finally realize that the relatively heavy , but one time fix to those would solve their constant headache of balance issues, then we might finally see progress on your complaint.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 March 2014 - 09:59 AM.

[Sandpit]

Sandpit, on 22 March 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

yea because this topic needed a "new" thread

http://mwomercs.com/...is-game-for-me/
http://mwomercs.com/...81-lrms-broken/
http://mwomercs.com/...83-fixing-lrms/
http://mwomercs.com/...ly-lrms-batman/
http://mwomercs.com/...nd/page__st__60
http://mwomercs.com/...nic-as-streaks/

[Steel Claws]

The only people who are saying LRMs are fine are the ones that I see setting back with 40+ tubes. AMS and use terrain doesn't cut it. Unless you want to spend the whole drop hiding behind a ridge (that most of the time won't protect you because the LRMs are coming from several different directions) there is no point venturing out. I've had several drops with a fully armored Banshee that is equipped with AMS that I couldn't get 40 meters before the waves of LRMs stripped it down - and thats trying to spread the damage. This is not fun. I know several long time players that just through up their hands and quit. Then there are the maps with no terrain details to hide behind. Lets see you use terrain effectively as shield on Caustic. Anyone who thinks this is viable I want to stick in an Atlas D and have them try to defend against just me in a LRM boat.

There was nothing wrong with LRMs before this patch. There was almost always several LRM boats in a drop. They were effective before this un needed buff - and yes I used them and could turn in scores of 400 - 1200 damage without breaking a sweat. I could turn 400s easy in a mech using just 25 tubes. They worked and were balanced ... but working isn't enough for some people. They always want their favorite weapons buffed and got it. And no it isn't the shiny new toy - it' just people wanting to beef up their stats with weapons that are over the top.

And don't even start comparing LRMs and direct fire weapons. The guy with PPCs or ACs or lasers has to be able to see you to hit you - and has less range to boot. They cannot be compared the same.

Edited by Steel Claws, 22 March 2014 - 10:20 AM.

[Gyrok]

I remember LRMageddon...seeing 2k match score from missle boats abusing splash damage. Just because it is currently NOT that bad, does NOT mean that it is not OP.

It is ridiculous currently...LRMs were fine before, now they are not. You could do 1k damage with LRMs before if you were skilled and had a good match. Now, if you do not get close to 1k damage running LRMs, then you are incompetent.

People complain about AC/PPC mechs, but reality is, you could hit 1k damage with both loadouts reasonably well. Sure, NARC being useful is nice, it seems a bit OP to be honest, I think the timer for the duration could be dialed back to...say...20 seconds instead of 30. Though it is more useful now. This game has turned into LRM fest everywhere. Thank heavens the die hards that run competitive 12 mans MOSTLY hate LRMs as much as my clan does...the sentiment among the actual competitive segment is that LRMs take no skill, so their current state is OP due to the fact that newbies in trial stalkers can put 800 damage...hop in their cockpit and watch them fire LRMs at lights finding them (FINALLY) while the lights chase them with impunity at 90-100m or less.

This is the idiocy in the game currently...something that requires no learning curve should not be this powerful.

My thoughts on the matter.

Edited by Gyrok, 22 March 2014 - 10:22 AM.

[Mavairo]

Steel Claws, on 22 March 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

The only people who are saying LRMs are fine are the ones that I see setting back with 40+ tubes. AMS and use terrain doesn't cut it. Unless you want to spend the whole drop hiding behind a ridge (that most of the time won't protect you because the LRMs are coming from several different directions) there is no point venturing out. I've had several drops with a fully armored Banshee that is equipped with AMS that I couldn't get 40 meters before the waves of LRMs stripped it down - and thats trying to spread the damage. This is not fun. I know several long time players that just through up their hands and quit. Then there are the maps with no terrain details to hide behind. Lets see you use terrain effectively as shield on Caustic. Anyone who thinks this is viable I want to stick in an Atlas D and have them try to defend against just me in a LRM boat.

There was nothing wrong with LRMs before this patch. There was almost always several LRM boats in a drop. They were effective before this un needed buff - and yes I used them and could turn in scores of 400 - 1200 damage without breaking a sweat. I could turn 400s easy in a mech using just 25 tubes. They worked and were balanced ... but working isn't enough for some people. They always want their favorite weapons buffed and got it. And no it isn't the shiny new toy - it' just people wanting to beef up their stats with weapons that are over the top.

The only LRM boat I have is a C1 Founders Cat with 2 LRM15s.
And it hasn't seen use since official release of the game.

LRMS are fine. Quit trying to play static warfare and you won't lose to LRMs it's that simple.

[Odins Fist]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

FTFY

Nah, I think the MAIN issue with weapons balancing is that it keeps happening, keeps changing, and some players just get sick of it.

It's not a deal breaker for me unless it never stops, at some point they (PGI) are going to have to settle on an overall weapons balance and stick to it.

I think the question that gets missed or asked the least is this "When will weapons balancing be done?"
But looking at everything else in terms of what finished and what's not with MWO, it's a question that may never have an answer, and that isn't good.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odins Fist, on 22 March 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

Nah, I think the MAIN issue with weapons balancing is that it keeps happening, keeps changing, and some players just get sick of it.

It's not a deal breaker for me unless it never stops, at some point they (PGI) are going to have to settle on an overall weapons balance and stick to it.

I think the question that gets missed or asked the least is this "When will weapons balancing be done?"
But looking at everything else in terms of what finished and what's not with MWO, it's a question that may never have an answer, and that isn't good.

the point is that your main issue is a symptom, and one that will not stop because the main issues, the open customization, and pinpoint convergence are not being addressed.

[Mcgral18]

Steel Claws, on 22 March 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

The only people who are saying LRMs are fine are the ones that I see setting back with 40+ tubes. AMS and use terrain doesn't cut it. Unless you want to spend the whole drop hiding behind a ridge (that most of the time won't protect you because the LRMs are coming from several different directions) there is no point venturing out. I've had several drops with a fully armored Banshee that is equipped with AMS that I couldn't get 40 meters before the waves of LRMs stripped it down - and thats trying to spread the damage. This is not fun. I know several long time players that just through up their hands and quit. Then there are the maps with no terrain details to hide behind. Lets see you use terrain effectively as shield on Caustic. Anyone who thinks this is viable I want to stick in an Atlas D and have them try to defend against just me in a LRM boat.

There was nothing wrong with LRMs before this patch. There was almost always several LRM boats in a drop. They were effective before this un needed buff - and yes I used them and could turn in scores of 400 - 1200 damage without breaking a sweat. I could turn 400s easy in a mech using just 25 tubes. They worked and were balanced ... but working isn't enough for some people. They always want their favorite weapons buffed and got it. And no it isn't the shiny new toy - it' just people wanting to beef up their stats with weapons that are over the top.

And don't even start comparing LRMs and direct fire weapons. The guy with PPCs or ACs or lasers has to be able to see you to hit you - and has less range to boot. They cannot be compared the same.

I think they're fine, and I only use 25 tubes. Although I do love it when banshees wander into open ground, NARC them then hide behind the hill while destroying them, 25 missiles at a time. You have to punish the players who do silly things.

As for the second point, no, they were terrible. So slow even an atlas could REVERSE sideways and be safe. Perhaps 150 M/s would have been a better decision, but they needed something for sure.
They didn't want their favourite weapon buffed, they wanted it to work. Now it does.

Adapt or die.

Edited by Mcgral18, 22 March 2014 - 10:34 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Steel Claws, on 22 March 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

The only people who are saying LRMs are fine are the ones that I see setting back with 40+ tubes. AMS and use terrain doesn't cut it. Unless you want to spend the whole drop hiding behind a ridge (that most of the time won't protect you because the LRMs are coming from several different directions) there is no point venturing out. I've had several drops with a fully armored Banshee that is equipped with AMS that I couldn't get 40 meters before the waves of LRMs stripped it down - and thats trying to spread the damage. This is not fun. I know several long time players that just through up their hands and quit. Then there are the maps with no terrain details to hide behind. Lets see you use terrain effectively as shield on Caustic. Anyone who thinks this is viable I want to stick in an Atlas D and have them try to defend against just me in a LRM boat.

There was nothing wrong with LRMs before this patch. There was almost always several LRM boats in a drop. They were effective before this un needed buff - and yes I used them and could turn in scores of 400 - 1200 damage without breaking a sweat. I could turn 400s easy in a mech using just 25 tubes. They worked and were balanced ... but working isn't enough for some people. They always want their favorite weapons buffed and got it. And no it isn't the shiny new toy - it' just people wanting to beef up their stats with weapons that are over the top.

And don't even start comparing LRMs and direct fire weapons. The guy with PPCs or ACs or lasers has to be able to see you to hit you - and has less range to boot. They cannot be compared the same.

Funny. I'm running a Griffin with 15 tubes. And no AMS. and am doing fine. Most of my other mechs don't have LRMs at all. Or ECM, or AMS. And are all doing pretty fine. But then, i don't run a slow assault mech, and stray from ecm and cover. I prefer faster mechs. My only mechs with AMS, actually, are my assaults, and my FS9-S Firestarter. (and it only because it comes with 2 mounts, so to make it different, why not?)

I guess I could turn this argument around, and make a blanket, generally inaccurate statement of my own, and say the only people QQing about LRMs are people who either are used to Lights having carte blanche, People who prefer fat assaults and poptarts, and other people who don't understand tactics and cover?

Seems a little condescending, don't it?

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Ok, lets make the whiners happy. Get PGI to make LRM's direct fire only. Of course they need to up the velocity then to equate with other leet sklilz direct fire weapons, I suggest 500 m/sec to start with. What with the bonuses from TAG, Artemis etc they should be great.
This would suit me as I hardly ever fire them at long range or indirectly anyway. Ballistics could do with some company.

[Odins Fist]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

the point is that your main issue is a symptom, and one that will not stop because the main issues, the open customization, and pinpoint convergence are not being addressed.

I'm addressing weapons balance as a whole in terms of what weapons do for damage.

Yeah weapons convergence is something to be looked at, but by the year 3050 I would think targeting systems would be developed to at least make it possible to hit the same section on a mech (not the same hole).

Customization may not be TT spec, but MWO wouldn't make it if certain amounts of customization weren't allowed, or even worse, what if they decided to take away customization YIKES..!! I think if they did that, then certain Hero Mechs would be sold that would have a distinct advantage, maybe.

As far as weapons balancing is concerned, I would like to see PGI come up with a set number for each weapon in relation to it's range/speed/damage output, and stick to it, if that's even possible.. The other issues might never be changed, i'm not sure exactly what would have to be done to change them.

Question: Do you think they will limit the customization EVERY player has been able to use now, and do you think convergence is actually going to be changed, and if you do think convergence can be changed for the btter, please explain how.