775 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Lorgarn, on 29 March 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Let me count how many roofs I finde on the maps.....

Off the top of my head:
Tunnel on both Forest maps.
Tunnel on both Frozen City maps
Tunnel on both River Cities
There's a helipad on both Caustic and both River Cities.
Tunnel on Crimson Strait.
And then there's HPG, that both have a roofed-over central peak, and lots and lots of tunnels.

In fact, of all the maps I think only Alpine lacks at least one spot with overhead protection.

[wanderer]

El Bandito, on 28 March 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

As I said in a previous thread, LRM boating is already shrinking as people are going back to the direct fire meta build, since it is much more effective than LRMs.

This. People learned how to deal with the change and I'm usually seeing...folks in a few Trial Stalkers.

Or 1-2 LRM carriers per PUG. As Paul noted, the high ELO players never "adapted" to LRMs- because at high ELOs, LRMs still aren't meta. Just more effective than they were, which is to say the AC/PPC is still king. Which the calm ones realized ages ago.



The advice most of the people who did should have taken- instead of just griping that suddenly, they were bad against another weapon system that made them feel better because it was nearly useless pre-patch.

[Mujinn]

News flash for all the morons who like to say adapt or die... well people are using cover and so much so that people stay in cover instead of trying to find and locate the lrms, because right now if you poke your head out for a second you get 8 lrm boats locking on to you, firing and before you can get back to your cover, half if not all your armor is gone, if you are in a light or medium mech possible a dead mech.

Once one team has the other pin down for fear of being LRMed to death their light and medium mechs move in and start picking you off 1 by 1 or pop their air strike/artillery strikes on all the clustered mechs hiding in cover. So now they have to move or get mass strikes on them and when they do the lrm boats feast.

Before this lrm boast people were actually playing a mech battle now they are playing mech hide and seek. A speed change is needed, I will agree before this patch lrms were a tad too slow but now they are a bit too fast. I would suggest next time to a gradual speed increase of 10 or 15 increments not 40+.

[Kjudoon]

stjobe, on 29 March 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

Off the top of my head:
Tunnel on both Forest maps.
Tunnel on both Frozen City maps
Tunnel on both River Cities
There's a helipad on both Caustic and both River Cities.
Tunnel on Crimson Strait.
And then there's HPG, that both have a roofed-over central peak, and lots and lots of tunnels.

In fact, of all the maps I think only Alpine lacks at least one spot with overhead protection.

Tourmaline has lots of overhead cover.
Canyon Network has 3 bridges on the south end, PLUS natural rock bridges and caprocks on the north end.
Under the Citadel and 2 bridges and cranes and one building in River City
Sleight overhangs in the PUG Zapper in Terra Therma.
Crimson Straits is loaded with bridges, elevated rail lines, helipads, the dock area, cranes and scaffolding
The dock on Frozen City
HPG is strictly under the dish and in "The Basement".

Alpine is the only one without any overhead cover, but has lots of sheer rock walls and steep hills that work as well.

[Kjudoon]

Mujinn, on 29 March 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

News flash for all the morons who like to say adapt or die... well people are using cover and so much so that people stay in cover instead of trying to find and locate the lrms, because right now if you poke your head out for a second you get 8 lrm boats locking on to you, firing and before you can get back to your cover, half if not all your armor is gone, if you are in a light or medium mech possible a dead mech.

Once one team has the other pin down for fear of being LRMed to death their light and medium mechs move in and start picking you off 1 by 1 or pop their air strike/artillery strikes on all the clustered mechs hiding in cover. So now they have to move or get mass strikes on them and when they do the lrm boats feast.

Before this lrm boast people were actually playing a mech battle now they are playing mech hide and seek. A speed change is needed, I will agree before this patch lrms were a tad too slow but now they are a bit too fast. I would suggest next time to a gradual speed increase of 10 or 15 increments not 40+.

the fact that the trial stalker is an LRMboat does not make the speed tweak wrong. Remove it from rotation and the amount of LRMboats will be halved. I rarely see more than 4 on a team in a match and me and my teammates are usually the ones bringing them.

What's worse are the selfish jerks who won't target enemies because they want to be all passive aggressive LRMhatorz. But I get it. Too many don't want a 'thinking man's shooter' as PGI is trying to make, so they QQrage till PGI nerfs it back to Mech of Doody or some other no think twitchfest because having effective, less twitch weapons is unfair to the players who don't care beyond mech smash.

[Wolfways]

I hope PGI are looking at the replies in this thread and comparing ELO's with opinions. Maybe there's a pattern...

[wanderer]

Mujinn, on 29 March 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

News flash for all the morons who like to say adapt or die... well people are using cover and so much so that people stay in cover instead of trying to find and locate the lrms, because right now if you poke your head out for a second you get 8 lrm boats locking on to you, firing and before you can get back to your cover, half if not all your armor is gone, if you are in a light or medium mech possible a dead mech.

Actually, most of those folks are just breaking LOS. That's "concealment", which is helpful but won't stop an LRM coming in if someone else has LOS from a different angle. And if they don't move, they're just pinned in place and effectively neutralized.

The edge of the caldera in Caustic? Concealment. The under dock in Crimson? Cover. Ducking behind a low hill in Forest Colony? Concealment. The tunnel? Cover.

People equate "I can't see people" with "I am safe from LRMs". This is a fatal newbie mistake.

Quote

Once one team has the other pin down for fear of being LRMed to death their light and medium mechs move in and start picking you off 1 by 1 or pop their air strike/artillery strikes on all the clustered mechs hiding in cover. So now they have to move or get mass strikes on them and when they do the lrm boats feast.

Which is why as an LRM carrier, when I see the other side stop moving, I'm winning, even if I barely hit you. You're afraid and paralyzed, which means my front-liners who aren't will snap you up a bite at a time. Teams that actually know better don't end up in those situations- they know that concealment is temporary and the only way to really stop me is to stuff an AC barrel up my nose and blow my 'Mech to Kingdom Come.

Less experienced players flinch,freeze, and die. More experienced ones learn, close, and if the LRM boat has no defensive screen, kill easily. This is what I see, game after game, hour after hour, play after play.

Learn. To. Play.

Quote

Before this lrm boast people were actually playing a mech battle now they are playing mech hide and seek. A speed change is needed, I will agree before this patch lrms were a tad too slow but now they are a bit too fast. I would suggest next time to a gradual speed increase of 10 or 15 increments not 40+.

Before this, people were playing Poptarts Online. Heck, they still are in higher ELO play.

[Kjudoon]

Wolfways, on 29 March 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

I hope PGI are looking at the replies in this thread and comparing ELO's with opinions. Maybe there's a pattern...

Actually, I doubt they read this much at all because of all the hate and vitriol. I know if I had a project I was working on where all the comment boards were bashing me... I'd be very unlikely to visit or pay attention to what they had to say.

Yes I include my own wild fluctuations in this. I'm only so big a hypocrite.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

Less experienced players flinch,freeze, and die. More experienced ones learn, close, and if the LRM boat has no defensive screen, kill easily. This is what I see, game after game, hour after hour, play after play.

Learn. To. Play.

Good post BTW.

I will say this also, as it has become a regular problem for LRMhatorz who like to charge good (well, smarter) LRMboat pilots like me: we often are on teamspeak with friends waiting for you to get tunnel vision on my tasty tasty porkchop, and blow you apart from behind. Today, 2 embers tried this. They got shredded faster than the time they took to blow off 1 arm. Then ran for it. Unfortunately for them, I gunned one of them down later, and another teammate took the other one. Could they have killed me? Easily, if I was alone. But, I wasn't. I was smart and stayed near the group. But they wanted me bad, and lost because of it.

So go ahead. charge the LRMboat. But be warned... we're sometimes putting ourselves out there as the tasty tasty porkchop for you rabid pitbulls to end up getting gunned down like dogs by the other hunters with me.

LRMFTW!

[Tw1stedMonkey]

https://onedrive.liv...nt=photo%2c.jpg
This is my problem with lrms, i'm hugging a rock that is clreayly taller than my banshee yet the lrms were still able to hit me from behind another even taller rock.

Kjudoon, on 29 March 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

Good post BTW.

I will say this also, as it has become a regular problem for LRMhatorz who like to charge good (well, smarter) LRMboat pilots like me: we often are on teamspeak with friends waiting for you to get tunnel vision on my tasty tasty porkchop, and blow you apart from behind. Today, 2 embers tried this. They got shredded faster than the time they took to blow off 1 arm. Then ran for it. Unfortunately for them, I gunned one of them down later, and another teammate took the other one. Could they have killed me? Easily, if I was alone. But, I wasn't. I was smart and stayed near the group. But they wanted me bad, and lost because of it.

So go ahead. charge the LRMboat. But be warned... we're sometimes putting ourselves out there as the tasty tasty porkchop for you rabid pitbulls to end up getting gunned down like dogs by the other hunters with me.

LRMFTW!

Also this is exactly while lrms can be too powerful when playe din a group. It is very easy to defend an assault lrm boat from anything but a 3+mech charge and those mechs will likely take a beating from his team in the process.

Edited by Tw1stedMonkey, 29 March 2014 - 04:28 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 29 March 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

https://onedrive.liv...nt=photo%2c.jpg
This is my problem with lrms, i'm hugging a rock that is clreayly taller than my banshee yet the lrms were still able to hit me from behind another even taller rock.

Reasons it can do this:

1. There's a spotter giving your position away and allowing a higher arc. Yes it does this.
2. You are lower than the shooter giving it more ability to arc.
3. You're at long range (+750m) which often has missiles arc very high.

sometimes I've seen this happen.

4. High mounted missle hard points combined with having to fire up at the target with a spotter causes a greater arc. It's rare.

Many times I've been able to get (and receive) almost a completely vertical drop on a target. It is situational apparently governed by factors I've no clue on at times. Thing is, this is the advantage of indirect fire. I call it a fair trade off for nerfing speed to the slow 120-175m/s range as compared to the slowest ballistic at 750m/s. This is not a guidance issue, but indirect fire issue.

I'm all for having indirect ballistic fire with mech mortars and howitzers as lore has them. A Mech Mortar 8pack? Awesome1

Edited by Kjudoon, 29 March 2014 - 04:31 PM.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Kjudoon, on 29 March 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

Reasons it can do this:

1. There's a spotter giving your position away and allowing a higher arc. Yes it does this.
2. You are lower than the shooter giving it more ability to arc.
3. You're at long range (+750m) which often has missiles arc very high.

sometimes I've seen this happen.

4. High mounted missle hard points combined with having to fire up at the target with a spotter causes a greater arc. It's rare.

Many times I've been able to get (and receive) almost a completely vertical drop on a target. It is situational apparently governed by factors I've no clue on at times. Thing is, this is the advantage of indirect fire. I call it a fair trade off for nerfing speed to the slow 120-175m/s range as compared to the slowest ballistic at 750m/s. This is not a guidance issue, but indirect fire issue.

I'm all for having indirect ballistic fire with mech mortars and howitzers as lore has them. A Mech Mortar 8pack? Awesome1

Not fun, I am sick of coverhumpOnline. Just because ballistics are too good doesn't mean other weapon systems deserve to be too good. I am hopeful of the upcoming ballistic nerfs, but skeptical that PGI will do it in a remotely intelligent way. High pinpoint damage that is possible while exposing the mech for a <1 sec period is the problem. That, JJ being too good for combat, and the low-heat synergy of ACs with PPCs. I want all of them to be nerfed, srms need a fix/buff, and signifcantly longer lock-on time for lrms+lower angle of attack such that being close enough to cover that you can't aim your torso mounted weapons over the cover is sufficient to block lrms.

[GreenHell]

I'm a poor light pilot without the money to purchase a mech with ecm. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to be out there in my JR7-O and the moment I get spotted I die. I can't scout if poking my head out for a moment means death by missles to the CT (and no damage anywhere else btw... stupid missles).

Everyone has it in their heads that LRMs are OP right now so "I gotta run that". OR, they think that LRMs are OP right now so "I gotta run ecm Atlas". I've seen a team today composed of 5 LRM-boats, 5 DD-Cs, and two ecm scouts. They shouldn't have won, but we had a disco and two "I'm obviously very new, watch me shoot the floor" pilots.

The sad part is that I can't even say that the LRMs are OP because I don't use them, and I've been able to get free kills on squishy LRM-boats as well. Yes they are "stronger", but I can't say that they're "OP" like a lot of people do. There are just SO MANY OF THEM right now that you can't afford to be seen, otherwise you get LRM'd to death. It's the proliferation of LRM-boats in PUGs that makes them seem OP (personal opinion of course).

TLDR: There needs to be weight limits to prevent this sort of thing from happening. Weight limits would fix this (in my opinion).

[wanderer]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 29 March 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

Also this is exactly while lrms can be too powerful when playe din a group. It is very easy to defend an assault lrm boat from anything but a 3+mech charge and those mechs will likely take a beating from his team in the process.

>group
>too powerful

I'm sorry, I think I heard you just found out that teamwork is OP.

[MUDDD]

To all of those who are saying hide from the LRMs. That is not what i come into this game to do. I don't intend to hang out for half the match with nothing to do. That's ridiculous. The LRMs where fine right where they where for everybody but the players that just want to set in the back and push a button on their LRM boat to get points and they do this because they cant really pilot the mech sufficiently to play the game otherwise. The devs seem to nerf everything but the LRMs. Just the other day that idiot said he was going to nerf the ACs. I got a better idea for the people who think ACs are to powerful. Try hiding from them just like you are telling everybody else to do from LRMs. At least with the AC the PILOT has to aim. It doesn't get done for him like it does for LRM spammers. Don't get me wrong. I think this WAS a great game but the devs are listening to the wrong people. Remember devs whiners are usually only 1% of the population. Let me know when they come to their senses and fix it so it is Mech Warrior again instead of LRM Warrior and I might reload the game and try it again.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

wanderer, on 29 March 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

>group
>too powerful

I'm sorry, I think I heard you just found out that teamwork is OP.

Sorry, but **** off. A vast majority of the drops in this game are solo so balancing to make the game such that your only shot at a fair chance is in a 4 man is about as stupid a move as one could possibly make. Sorry I have to be the one to tell you this, but you and people like you that drop a majority of the time in 4 man groups, and the whole 12 man queue combined are a statistically insignificant group and listening to you over the majority of players is a great way to kill a game.

Teamwork can be an advantage without being basically an auto-win you know... but then i guess you wouldn't get to win as much now huh?

[DocBach]

Indeed, some matches have become about as fun as hiding out in a mortar bunker in Iraq waiting for the indirect fire alert to signal all clear.

[Aluminumfoiled]

Fut, on 28 March 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

And here I was, thinking that TAG had to be held on target for the entire flight of the missiles.
Silly me.

I used it to break through ECM first and foremost. And an added benefit was it added 1 sec to lock on time. Pre buff I could hold a lock a very long time. Jump tag with a medium or heavy. All it takes is to graze the target while locked on to get that TAG benefit. With tgt decay you see where this is going-Rainy Days and Mondays

[Kjudoon]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 29 March 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

Not fun, I am sick of coverhumpOnline. Just because ballistics are too good doesn't mean other weapon systems deserve to be too good. I am hopeful of the upcoming ballistic nerfs, but skeptical that PGI will do it in a remotely intelligent way. High pinpoint damage that is possible while exposing the mech for a <1 sec period is the problem. That, JJ being too good for combat, and the low-heat synergy of ACs with PPCs. I want all of them to be nerfed, srms need a fix/buff, and signifcantly longer lock-on time for lrms+lower angle of attack such that being close enough to cover that you can't aim your torso mounted weapons over the cover is sufficient to block lrms.

I see. So all weapon systems should suck, we should sit in a colluseum at 70 meters doing circles of death? Everything effective must be too good so nerf it all!

[wanderer]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 29 March 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

Sorry, but **** off. A vast majority of the drops in this game are solo so balancing to make the game such that your only shot at a fair chance is in a 4 man is about as stupid a move as one could possibly make. Sorry I have to be the one to tell you this, but you and people like you that drop a majority of the time in 4 man groups, and the whole 12 man queue combined are a statistically insignificant group and listening to you over the majority of players is a great way to kill a game.

Teamwork can be an advantage without being basically an auto-win you know... but then i guess you wouldn't get to win as much now huh?

I haven't dropped in a team for more than an hour since the stat reset. I'd say maybe 6 hours or so out of the last six months I've been on a team- most of the people I knew don't even play now. Because in part, they castrated the ability to drop in groups, even against other groups.

So "you people" fails. But the truth hurts- PUGs are inferior to 4-mans, 4-mans are inferior to sync drops, and if we could, a 12-man would roflstomp just about everyone. LRMs encourage teamwork behavior. That's why PUGs with plenty of missile boats tend to stomp other PUGs.LRMs naturally cause PUGs to mimic team-oriented behaviours.

We need more things like it, not "OMG, weapons that encourage people to work together are BROKEN NERF THEM NOW QQ QQ QQ". They are, temporarily, effectively upping people's virtual skill levels.