71 replies to this topic

[ProphetMatt]

So earlier to day i was playing a skirmish match, During the match i was severly damaged and ran off and hid, A player who turned out to be a moderator here started claiming I was breaking some "delay of game rule" Is that a rule? Cause the only thing on it I found was here http://mwomercs.com/...h/page__st__140 which seems to say its allowed.......so im a little confused, then a member of my own team put my location out in general chat which the moderator seemed to approve of so again im confused on the rules.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Turned out to be a moderator?
Do you remember who specifically?

As far as those rules go - if you were hiding than for no other reason than to not die - that can get you in trouble.
If you were hiding to potentially ambush people - there is almost no reason not to do that if you think you could pull it off.
IE: get them to split up some or other valid tactics.



-------------------------

Ranty Edit: important notice: unfortunately you have stumbled into the biggest can of worms there is in Skirmish mode.
People were warned that others would hide (regardless of what the rules said - or how the game "should" be played because people totally play Conquest by focusing on the caps....)
They promised not to throw fits if/when it happened.

Fits are being thrown.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 25 March 2014 - 09:03 PM.

[TygerLily]

Just go out in a blaze of glory man...don't hide...

Edited by TygerLily, 25 March 2014 - 09:02 PM.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Hiding to live is frowned on.

But hiding for a bit so you can pick off a weak one or two is perfectly acceptable and very well done when I see it pulled off. Just make sure and tell your team that so they do not give you away.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 25 March 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[Koniving]

Until there is a repair and rearm restored or another 'out' for either win or surrender is applied, unfortunately hiding is an unnecessary game delay that keeps people from moving on.

If you are able to fight, it is fine to pull back and set the fight up on your terms but only if there is a real chance you can win. If your damage was severe and you know you are going to die it is perhaps better to simply accept it or at best take someone down with you.

[ProphetMatt]

I know exactly who the moderator is, I have screenshots. i had hid for all of 30 seconds when he started threatening me. Im honestly not asking it its frowned on or looked down on, I just want to know if its against the rules. I wouldnt normally hide, but i was for a short time cause it was a light mech and im still getting used to it. Its just the moderator went straight to threats and said i was gonna get in trouble, which if its not against the rules then I would say that moderator should read up on them a bit.

Edited by ProphetMatt, 25 March 2014 - 09:12 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

ProphetMatt, on 25 March 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

I just want to know if its against the rules.

Whether it is actually against the rules or not is a large part of the nature of the can of worms - due to the ambush issue they cannot just claim that hiding is wrong - but neither can the just let people run off and hide.

[Craig Steele]

ProphetMatt, on 25 March 2014 - 08:54 PM, said:

So earlier to day i was playing a skirmish match, During the match i was severly damaged and ran off and hid, A player who turned out to be a moderator here started claiming I was breaking some "delay of game rule" Is that a rule? Cause the only thing on it I found was here http://mwomercs.com/...h/page__st__140 which seems to say its allowed.......so im a little confused, then a member of my own team put my location out in general chat which the moderator seemed to approve of so again im confused on the rules.

I doubt very much it was a moderator.

From what you have described, you have acted within the Code of Conduct and no Moderator should be concerned by your actions.

In any game mode, as long as you participate in the battle you may withdraw and "shut down' , hide or whichever you like without breaching the Code of Conduct.

There are many players (I know one suckered me once) that shut down in a camo'd up mech and wait for a numpty (like me) to walk by before letting rip and they are entitled to execute this legitimate tactic at the beginning or end of the match.

If I'm in a light and Last Man Standing I don't go running into the pack, I skirt the edges looking for a pick off. Entirely legitimate tactic at the beginning or end of a match.

Unless the Code of Conduct has changed OR you never participated, then I don't know why they would be getting upset.

EDIT: On reflection, maybe you shoudl send your screenshots to support and ask them. If the mod has it wrong they will no doubt pass it along. If you have it wrong, I am sure they will explain why.

Edited by Craig Steele, 25 March 2014 - 09:20 PM.

[Commander Binz]

Skirmish mode is generally seen as unsportsmanlike, because you waste everyones time. One extra death is really not going to make much difference to you, but annoying 23 other people for 5 mins will make a difference to them.

Conquest or Assault, its not as big a deal, since they can just walk off and go cap.

Can you say why you wanted to hide? The intention is really the key here.

Also - rules wise, im 99% sure but you ARE allowed to power off and hide, you ARE NOT allowed to tell the enemy team where your team mates are.

[Koniving]

Quote

Non-Participation
Any MechWarrior who willfully or repeatedly-

• Fails to engage the enemy or mission objectives; or
  
• Disconnects their BattleMech during combat;

Is guilty of Absence without ‘Mech and shall be moderated.

Falls under failure to engage the enemy or mission objectives. However, it's whether you decided to do it for the rest of the match or just a brief period of time while setting up your next strike that comes into question. 30 seconds is hardly enough time to have even started searching.

This one under combat conditions I'm guilty of.

Quote

Self-Destruction
Any MechWarrior who willfully or repeatedly-

• Overheats their BattleMech to destruction; or
  
• Is removed from battle by leaving the battlefield boundaries;

Is guilty of BattleMech Desertion and shall be moderated.

In one instance I was in a one versus 5 and they blew off my leg while I was overheated. With a largely energy based mech the choice was either let them chew me apart while I cooled off and maybe get off a few shots or jam override and fire everything over and over and over and pop... I died.

When you have no concern for ghost heat, an AC/20, 3 PPCs, and 5 Medium Lasers you're bound to have that 'way out' when you know you can't win. But I took two with me.

It's important to note the context of the rules which weren't given. For example, overheating and exploding is in fact a normal mechanic intent on punishing you for firing too much too fast repeatedly. To do it so that you do not have to participate in combat is the intention of the rule. Whether or not it's a 'crime' to do it as a last ditch heroic effort to do as much damage as you can before you die which, in turn, typically robs them of their reasonably earned kill, is questionable as it can be seen either way.

So in the original poster's case, within 30 seconds the person is harassed about hiding. What if the original poster was lining up a headshot with 3 Gauss Rifles and the perfect shot didn't come until 55 seconds after the death of his last ally? What if there the player was stuck on a map glitch; certainly not his fault right?

Technically hiding the entire match or absolutely refusing to fight in a match where the team might wait and inconsiderate amount of time (example 12 minutes) for you to just die or time out is simply non-participation even if you did participate before the 'injury'.
The page the OP quoted basically says it's also wrong for other allies to call out your position.
Basically it's whether or not you intended to do something aside from briefly hiding to isolate an enemy in a favorable fighting condition.

Edited by Koniving, 25 March 2014 - 09:33 PM.

[Craig Steele]

Koniving, on 25 March 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

Falls under failure to engage the enemy or mission objectives. However, it's whether you decided to do it for the rest of the match or just a brief period of time while setting up your next strike that comes into question. 30 seconds is hardly enough time to have even started searching.

If he has been shot up he has "engaged the enemy", how can he get pinged for not doing so?

(I am assuming here he shot back, a suicide run through was not the description of the OP)

Isn't it an acceptable tactic to engage, disengage and re engage on favourable terrain?

[ProphetMatt]

Yes, I had fought the enemy, was hiding and while i decided what to do, even asking my team for their thoughts the "moderator" started threatening to report me. The screenshot I do have is of him claiming some delay of game rule in the TOS and putting a "smiley face " after a guy posted my coordinates in chat.

[Modo44]

This was explained many times. Non-participation would be running off before a fight. Hiding after getting crippled is within the rules. It does waste your time as much as the enemies', though. Team mates telling where the last player is is still team treason, i.e. reportable.

Edited by Modo44, 25 March 2014 - 09:32 PM.

[ProphetMatt]

Modo44, on 25 March 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

This was explained many times. Non-participation would be running off before a fight. Hiding after getting crippled is within the rules. It does waste your time as much as the enemies', though. Team mates telling where the last player is is still team treason, i.e. reportable.

Thats what thought but then this guy goes off on me.....I would post the screenshot and name him but im sure that would be against some rule....but He is a moderator for sure.

[Koniving]

Craig Steele, on 25 March 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

If he has been shot up he has "engaged the enemy", how can he get pinged for not doing so?
Explained better in the edit.

Isn't it an acceptable tactic to engage, disengage and re engage on favourable terrain?
Yes. As better explained in the edit. Under the condition that he does, indeed, have said intention. That's where it gets tricky.

Edited by Koniving, 25 March 2014 - 09:35 PM.

[Craig Steele]

ProphetMatt, on 25 March 2014 - 09:30 PM, said:

Yes, I had fought the enemy, was hiding and while i decided what to do, even asking my team for their thoughts the "moderator" started threatening to report me. The screenshot I do have is of him claiming some delay of game rule in the TOS and putting a "smiley face " after a guy posted my coordinates in chat.

Well the guy who posted your co ordinates has certainly breached the treachery part of the CoC, you can (and imo should) report him accordingly.

No player is permitted to provide info on team mates.

Unless there is any more info, I suspect the guy claiming to be a mod was not, he should probably get reported too for impersonating PGI staff.

In all honesty, this is a prickly subject but your description is ENTIRELY within the CoC as I understand it.

Some people don't like it and they are entitled to their opinion, they are also entitled to select a game mode that has a timer or points end game mechanism (ie, not Skirmish). But if they let their opinion breach the CoC, regrettably it is them who is in the wrong.

[ProphetMatt]

he never claimed to be a mod, but I looked up his name on here and he was one.

[Kjudoon]

From numerous other threads the position I've seen from multiple moderators here is this:

If you move, attempt to engage, you have fulfilled your participation in the match no matter if you have been successful or not. If you then go shut down in a corner because of any reason, save sitting there taunting through text (which is a violation of TOS) you aren't violating TOS.

This is the flaw that was warned to people in skirmish mode and they wanted it anyway. If you think a mod is abusing his position or someone is impersonating a mod, file a service ticket telling the service team what happened.

That's the position I've had voiced to me in forum at least 3 times from the mods. You move, you tried, you can't be busted for griefing. If people give your position away, aka ghosting, THEY can be busted for team treason.

[Alaskan Nobody]

ProphetMatt, on 25 March 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

he never claimed to be a mod, but I looked up his name on here and he was one.

Well, definitely show that screenshot when you report the guy who gave your position.

Good thing you didn't show it here though.
(probably shouldn't have shown it to me - private conversations are a bit of a grey area last I checked)

If it is any help - that smiley might not have been to the guy who gave your coordinates.
(that could get the Mod in trouble - though he was not technically a mod in that match)

[Craig Steele]

ProphetMatt, on 25 March 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

he never claimed to be a mod, but I looked up his name on here and he was one.

Well idk then.

If he's a mod there is either more to the story, the rules have changed (they haven't that I can see) or he has it wrong in this instance.

Submit it to support and ask for clarity