193 replies to this topic

[Edward Mattlov]

Craig Steele, on 03 April 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Wolf Dragoons supposedly 'abandon' their mission sometime around 3039 when they stopped sending reports back to Clan space.

Field Manual Mercenaries details their decision not to return to Clan Space to rebuild after the 4th succession war as they feared being 'ordered' to stay in Clan Space and they had already decided by then they would fight against the Clans. There is no date though next to this description.

There is something somewhere about he Clans hearing about 3039 from Wolf Dragoons but I can't lay my hands on that source atm. But there are no subsequent reports back to Clan space AFAIK.

Deduction is therefore around 3039?

So therefore the Dragoons would be the most appropriate unit for IS freeborns who pilot clan mechs.

[Craig Steele]

Edward Mattlov, on 03 April 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

So therefore the Dragoons would be the most appropriate unit for IS freeborns who pilot clan mechs.

Well not really no, not at this time line anyway (3050)

Wolfs Dragoons were not equipped with Front Line Omni's, it was mostly second hand equipment some of which was up graded with a few Clan tech items.

According to the 3055 Mercenary's Handbook, only the Dragoons Zeta Battalion is equipped with Omni Mechs (in a Cluster formation). During the Dragoon civil war novel, I don't recall Clan Omni mechs being prevelant so I suspect that pre the Civil war (3053/54) Wolfs Dragoons did not field Clan Front line mechs.

In 3050, there is no real unit formation that has access to Clan Front line Omni's at all.

After 3050 theres a few filtering through, after 3052 there is a lot more (mainly Luthien salvage so its mostly Kurita, Wolf's Dragoons and Kell Hounds), from post the Truce (3053+) the IS steps up its raiding and can hold a few battlefields so they start to get a bit more salvage.

OFC, thats only the canon, MW:O has a very different view of things

[Edward Mattlov]

Craig Steele, on 03 April 2014 - 11:34 PM, said:

Well not really no, not at this time line anyway (3050)

Wolfs Dragoons were not equipped with Front Line Omni's, it was mostly second hand equipment some of which was up graded with a few Clan tech items.

According to the 3055 Mercenary's Handbook, only the Dragoons Zeta Battalion is equipped with Omni Mechs (in a Cluster formation). During the Dragoon civil war novel, I don't recall Clan Omni mechs being prevelant so I suspect that pre the Civil war (3053/54) Wolfs Dragoons did not field Clan Front line mechs.

In 3050, there is no real unit formation that has access to Clan Front line Omni's at all.

After 3050 theres a few filtering through, after 3052 there is a lot more (mainly Luthien salvage so its mostly Kurita, Wolf's Dragoons and Kell Hounds), from post the Truce (3053+) the IS steps up its raiding and can hold a few battlefields so they start to get a bit more salvage.

OFC, thats only the canon, MW:O has a very different view of things

Exactly, PGI has lifted their leg on Battletech canon and catered to the casual shooter fans by dumbing down whatever they can. As of this time in 3050, 99% of the IS would not have access to any salvaged Omnimechs, let alone brand new ones. PGI is only allowing mixed groups so that some players will remain IS for CW.

[Craig Steele]

Edward Mattlov, on 03 April 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

Exactly, PGI has lifted their leg on Battletech canon and catered to the casual shooter fans by dumbing down whatever they can. As of this time in 3050, 99% of the IS would not have access to any salvaged Omnimechs, let alone brand new ones. PGI is only allowing mixed groups so that some players will remain IS for CW.

I suspect its more about commercial realities, but it's certainly not canon

[Noesis]

Craig Steele, on 03 April 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Wolf Dragoons supposedly 'abandon' their mission sometime around 3039 when they stopped sending reports back to Clan space.

Field Manual Mercenaries details their decision not to return to Clan Space to rebuild after the 4th succession war as they feared being 'ordered' to stay in Clan Space and they had already decided by then they would fight against the Clans. There is no date though next to this description.

There is something somewhere about he Clans hearing about 3039 from Wolf Dragoons but I can't lay my hands on that source atm. But there are no subsequent reports back to Clan space AFAIK.

Deduction is therefore around 3039?

Except they haven't reported back to the Clans because they took an oath from their Khan Kerlin Ward and other instructions not to report back to the Clans and prepare for the Clan invasion. As such even if they were/are acting against the Council’s wishes they were/are in fact honouring standing orders from their Khan as mentioned and therefore still representing Clan Wolf interests:


http://www.sarna.net...#The_New_Orders

The only subsequent event of any significance in the Dragoon timeline to represent alternative objectives then the revelation to of who they were/are in relation to the Clans in 3051 and the following events where they then become Wardens of the IS.

So in principal any time up to 3051 can be considered that they were/are still acting in relation to Clan standing orders from their Khan, this despite any considerations that they had about the preparations for Operation Revival.

Edited by Noesis, 04 April 2014 - 01:28 PM.

[CyclonerM]

Noesis, on 04 April 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Except they haven't reported back to the Clans because they took an oath from their Khan Phelan Ward

Phelan Ward?

Did you mean Kerlin Ward, quiaff?

[Noesis]

CyclonerM, on 04 April 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

Phelan Ward?

Did you mean Kerlin Ward, quiaff?

Aff, god knows why I typed Phelan.

[CyclonerM]

Noesis, on 04 April 2014 - 01:28 PM, said:

Aff, god knows why I typed Phelan.

Maybe because he is the first character many associate with Clan Wolf and one of the most famous/important main characters (and typical "cool heroes") in the whole history of Battletech, while Khan Kerlin Ward is no much more than a note on Sarna? He has not even a portrait

[Noesis]

[Uncle Totty]

Will9761, on 01 April 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

It is not an honoring, but it is used as more of a sign of infamy. But Bandits Caste members favored the logo due to the Widowmaker's reputation.

...of killing off there Merchant Cast for wanting better treatment.

[Uncle Totty]

Noesis, on 01 April 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

Do you have cookies?

[Noesis]

Nathan K, on 05 April 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

Do you have cookies?

Yes, and if really lucky Bacon Doughnuts dipped in JD.

[Uncle Totty]

Craig Steele, on 03 April 2014 - 11:34 PM, said:

Well not really no, not at this time line anyway (3050)

Wolfs Dragoons were not equipped with Front Line Omni's, it was mostly second hand equipment some of which was up graded with a few Clan tech items.

According to the 3055 Mercenary's Handbook, only the Dragoons Zeta Battalion is equipped with Omni Mechs (in a Cluster formation). During the Dragoon civil war novel, I don't recall Clan Omni mechs being prevelant so I suspect that pre the Civil war (3053/54) Wolfs Dragoons did not field Clan Front line mechs.

In 3050, there is no real unit formation that has access to Clan Front line Omni's at all.

After 3050 theres a few filtering through, after 3052 there is a lot more (mainly Luthien salvage so its mostly Kurita, Wolf's Dragoons and Kell Hounds), from post the Truce (3053+) the IS steps up its raiding and can hold a few battlefields so they start to get a bit more salvage.

OFC, thats only the canon, MW:O has a very different view of things

The Dragoons had the power to make front line Omnies since 3020 I think. They even had a small number of Dire Wolfs that they made tucked away, just in case, as of 3050.

[Evil Deaz]

Well Noesis you have captured my curiosity and since you mentioned that there are cookies, I might have to check this out and by "might" I mean "will".

[Craig Steele]

Nathan K, on 05 April 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

The Dragoons had the power to make front line Omnies since 3020 I think. They even had a small number of Dire Wolfs that they made tucked away, just in case, as of 3050.

According to my canon sources they had no mech manufacturing capability until Blackwell (spelling?) started up in post 3050 on Outreach.

Prior to that there only source of Clan tech was a cache in the Periphary. We do know from canon that the Dragoons were equipped with lesser mechs and technology when they left Clan space so its hard to imagine this cache would be populated with front line Omni's.

They clearly had at least one Dire Wolf in 3050, they offered it as a reward to the heirs testing in 3051. Kai who came first declined the Dire Wolf to pilot his fathers mech. Hohiro declined it because his honour would not allow him to claim a prize he had not earned. VSD who came third ended up with it and used it in future battles.

But I don't see any canon supporting the Dragoons deployed Clan Omnis until 3052+, Jamie certainly did not pilot one at Luthien nor during the civil war.

[CyclonerM]

Nathan K, on 05 April 2014 - 06:53 PM, said:

Do you have cookies?

[Noesis]

[Gyrok]

I do know the Dragoons typically fielded retrofitted IIC variants that came with the clans from the SLDF. There were some of the early Clan Mechs with them, but, as was pointed out, those were non-omni, second line mechs. I can say for certain though that mechs like the Atlas IIC, Marauder IIC, Griffin IIC, Hunchback IIC, Flea and others were popular among them though. Sadly, of those, the only variant you could make an attempt at realistically would be the Griffin IIC, if you saw the Atlas IIC and Hunchback IIC loadouts, it would not at all be feasible with IS weapons.

Edited by Gyrok, 06 April 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[Craig Steele]

Gyrok, on 06 April 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

I do know the Dragoons typically fielded retrofitted IIC variants that came with the clans from the SLDF. There were some of the early Clan Mechs with them, but, as was pointed out, those were non-omni, second line mechs. I can say for certain though that mechs like the Atlas IIC, Marauder IIC, Griffin IIC, Hunchback IIC, Flea and others were popular among them though. Sadly, of those, the only variant you could make an attempt at realistically would be the Griffin IIC, if you saw the Atlas IIC and Hunchback IIC loadouts, it would not at all be feasible with IS weapons.

I don't remember this. I have the Wolf's Dragoons Source book which details individual pilots and mechs for the entire TO&E as of the 4th Succession War and the only non IS mech that I recall was a Behemoth (Stone Rhino).

Even Jamie Wolfs Archer is detailed in a Source Book somewhere in its full specs and it has no Clan tech at all.

I'll see is I can find the sourcebook here but what source are you looking at?

[Noesis]