Didn't they say in the vid log that it was back to the Open Beta? Around the same mouthful as "We were surprised"
So, AFTER they imposed the 4/8/12 player caps... got it.
Craig Steele, on 06 April 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:
EDIT: Podacst 103 at about 11 minutes Bryan in response to a question about the "stats" just offered says "This is average for the life of the game".
Fair enough, but since the game has been longer WITHOUT group support than it's had group support.... I again have to point to AtD 34 when Bryan said most of the games players were in groups. Seems when they supported groups, that groups were the thing, and since they've made grouping difficult, it's focus has shifted to the Solo player.
And then they're "surprised" that most of their players are solo?
Craig Steele, on 06 April 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:
A few seconds after that he talks about group queues?
Exactly, at the end of Feburary, Group support is vital to Community Warfare (Bryan's words).
Then just one week later, we get this from Paul.
Paul Inouye, on 27 February 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:
Let me preempt this storm with this statement:
Yes, we wanted to allow players to create a 2-12 player group and launch.. but as you can see by the numbers and how it will sku matches that this edge case is just not feasible. There HAVE been talks and it's not 100% off the board, but there is also the potential of having a group queue later on down the road which will just pack groups of whatever sizes together...
The Premium Private Match will allow you to launch games of any size for now.
We will watch how games play out and will let you know if we plan on going ahead with this additional feature of Lobby's but I would have to caveat that with the fact that it would not be addressed until after CW has been released.
So, it's vital, just not THAT vital.
Meanwhile, organized groups hemorrhage players to other games that support group play.
I don't think it'll be nearly that easy as there will be a queue for each weight class, your solo player in the medium will get to play two games before your 3A-1H group gets into their game, and your solo heavies will almost certainly find a game quicker. This 3/3/3/3 is just another hindrance to playing in a group.
Just to see what those garbage boys complain about then, and what new demon they conceive of to blame their gross incompetence on.
The same as always, everyone else.
Koniving, on 06 April 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:
Brilliant stuff mixed with fantasies of Liao winning anything outside of a House Liao centered novel.
It is worth noting that this entire discussion may have nothing in common with Faction Warfare, especially for mercenaries whom PGI thinks are the 'hardcore groups'. If we want to see things like Koniving has described we will either 1. become mercenaries or 2. Hope when they get around to creating 'Loyalist Units' that we get the same treatment.
Out of curiousity, if you were PGI, where would you focus your efforts?
On making the dwindling hardcore playerbase happy in the hopes that they 'whale out' on your game again?
Or focus on balancing to the lowest common denominator that will play your game for 3 weeks before getting bored, but will drop some cash before they do.
Honestly...I think this is where all our arguments fall short. They've angered the hardcore playerbase to the point where focusing on transient player populations is now the MORE profitable course.
I want to follow up on this, and maybe I can give you a little perspective as to why you seem to arguing with so many "Fanboi's" (your words)
In that same interview, Bryan says that Groups will be limited to 2 or 3 in size in the public queue, but 5 days later in a detailed post from Paul with all sorts of graphs and images, that it still reflects the 4 player group.
So which is it?
Yes, we know the answer is likely 4 players and not 3, because...well... that would just be asinine to limit groups to 2 or 3 when the traditional lance is 4.
The point of this is that if the 3 at the top (Russ, Bryan and Paul) can't release a concise message, and be consistent in their statements, how are we... the great unwashed... able to do ANYTHING but argue semantics over bad information.
Another good example is that there are 2 conflicting DEV posts regarding CASE (I really don't feel like digging them up, but do it yourself, it's actually kinda funny).
And then, when the great unwashed DOES try to get information, we're either blatantly stonewalled or outright ignored.
Here's an example. When this whole nixing of the group thing came down, I asked Bryan on Twitter if there was a correlation in the size of ones friends list to the amount of MC they've purchased (trying to get a little bit MWOs data about how groups = money). Bryan replied that he could look that information up. I didn't hear back from him on it, so a few days later I asked if he had a chance to look that up, later that day I was blocked by him on Twitter.
Being able to send only limited amounts of stuff depending on certain conditions. (does your faction have any of X mechs left or about to come off the prod line from Y planet you hold ? Do you have enough dropships to send that much of a force ? Is it worth sending that much in the first place ?)
The asymetrical sides........just like your examples....... 1 team went heavy so has no reserve mechs and only 9 players vs the other sides ligher team, however they have 12 players and 1 reserve.
It all adds to the overall strategy in the CW game for corps and factions imo by a ton.
Closed beta had some really wild fights. Sometimes 12 lights versus lots of heavies and assaults. Mediums versus a lot more.
There was one fight where it was 2 heavies, 4 mediums, and 1 light (we had a disconnect) against 2 Atlases (the other 6 players on their side disconnected).
Guess how it ended?
....the two Atlases won. The closest any of us got was 300 meters. The light mech died instantly after giving us a location. The heavies were headshotted. The mediums were legged. (It was in the days where the fastest medium was maybe 69 kph. If it says anything the Atlases barely went 30). The only one who got close was me and another Centurion.
The two of us were in a premade and working together. We twisted our torso 50 degrees right, and hooked our right arms (the cannons) underneath the shield. We had LRMs firing as we charged at 50 something kph. Our AC/5 and AC/2 (depending on which of us) firing as we rushed. Enemy LRMs showering us. My arm comes off from the second wave of 40 LRMs from the one Atlas. AC/20 rips my leg off. I center my torso and continue firing adding my own lasers to the mix now that we're in range. Enemy lasers to my mohawk (counted as head back then). AC/20 to my head. I'm dead. My team mate dies seconds later, the exact same process used against him.
The two of them covered each other, too, when one shut down the other would fire. The fact that it was frozen city helped them a lot, considering we all had standard heatsinks.
Add to this that back then with no HSR, it was easy to use various tricks like turtlebacking (very high rear armor. Fire, turn around, let them shoot your back and turn to fire, repeat.), shield arming, and swatting bullets. These Atlases excelled at it. When the K2 Bang Cat (twin AC/20s) would fire, Atlas's arms jerked to one side and soaked up the rounds.
The skill involved in the old days is amazing compared to what we have now. Then again every single round you never knew what you were up against. It could be 8 heavies. It could be 8 lights. It could be some ungodly mix. And back then a light (Raven 4X) could drop kick and knock over an Atlas. Of course running over unsteady ground could cause a light to trip.
I miss those days. I miss not knowing. I miss the communication and strategy involved in every match. Everyone talked because they had to. Target, D3. Atlas B9!
But of it all, you know what I really miss? The good sportsmanship. It's a landslide victory, 7 players wiped out. One guy left. He comes out to the front of one of the enemies and "I surrender." Shuts down. "I accept. Good game." They take the base.
Of course taking bases actually earned more money than killing everyone anyway. So back then you had to defend your own base. If they took it while everyone was alive, that was the real payout.
I think it'd be worth that payout again now, considering all the stuff you have to go through to take one now in assault.
....Ah, but that's a lot of rambling. Thank you btw.
(Another similar fight; this from 8 vs 8 premades.)
After we lose our assaults, our 4 lighter mechs (2 heavies, 2 mediums I believe) take out 7 assaults (6 of them Atlases with ECM) and 1 Raven 3-L.
Base defense from back then. Partial Commander role too. December 2012.
For those interested in the evolution on the same topic...
Base defense January 2013. Streak Cat, Streak Com, Streak Com. Back when streaks required skill (minimum range to hit accurately, slow-turning streaks). We lost, but how will surprise you. Or will it?
July 2013. The truly impossible 13 minute long base defense. (It is nearly capped in the first 2 minutes, so we spend 13 minutes with almost no forces left defending against sniper lights and mediums). We won.
April 3rd, 2014. We we have now (taking the base as a Dragon).
Out of curiousity, if you were PGI, where would you focus your efforts?
On making the dwindling hardcore playerbase happy in the hopes that they 'whale out' on your game again?
Or focus on balancing to the lowest common denominator that will play your game for 3 weeks before getting bored, but will drop some cash before they do.
Honestly...I think this is where all our arguments fall short. They've angered the hardcore playerbase to the point where focusing on transient player populations is now the MORE profitable course.
Simple
Focus on the people that will give this game long term longevity. Solo players will come and go, but a good, well supported community will out live the life of the game (as we have seen) and give a basis for the new players to play on.
Closed beta had some really wild fights. Sometimes 12 lights versus lots of heavies and assaults. Mediums versus a lot more.
There was one fight where it was 2 heavies, 4 mediums, and 1 light (we had a disconnect) against 2 Atlases (the other 6 players on their side disconnected).
Guess how it ended?
....the two Atlases won. The closest any of us got was 300 meters. The light mech died instantly after giving us a location. The heavies were headshotted. The mediums were legged. (It was in the days where the fastest medium was maybe 69 kph. If it says anything the Atlases barely went 30). The only one who got close was me and another Centurion.
The two of us were in a premade and working together. We twisted our torso 50 degrees right, and hooked our right arms (the cannons) underneath the shield. We had LRMs firing as we charged at 50 something kph. Our AC/5 and AC/2 (depending on which of us) firing as he made our charge. Enemy LRMs showering us. My arm comes off from the second wave of 40 LRMs from the one Atlas. AC/20 rips my leg off. I center my torso and continue firing. Lasers to my mohawk (counted as head back then). AC/20 to my head. I'm dead. My team mate dies seconds later, the exact same process used against him.
The two of them covered each other, too, when one shut down the other would fire. The fact that it was frozen city helped them a lot, considering we all had standard heatsinks.
Add to this that back then with no HSR, it was easy to use various tricks like turtlebacking (very high rear armor. Fire, turn around, let them shoot your back and turn to fire, repeat.), shield arming, and swatting bullets. These Atlases excelled at it. When the K2 Bang Cat (twin AC/20s) would fire, Atlas's arms jerked to one side and soaked up the rounds.
The skill involved in the old days is amazing compared to what we have now. Then again every single round you never knew what you were up against. It could be 8 heavies. It could be 8 lights. It could be some ungodly mix. And back then a light (Raven 4X) could drop kick and knock over an Atlas. Of course running over unsteady ground could cause a light to trip.
I miss those days. I miss not knowing. I miss the communication and strategy involved in every match. Everyone talked because they had to. Target, D3. Atlas B9!
But of it all, you know what I really miss? The good sportsmanship. It's a landslide victory, 7 players wiped out. One guy left. He comes out to the front of one of the enemies and "I surrender." Shuts down. "I accept. Good game." They take the base.
Of course taking bases actually earned more money than killing everyone anyway. So back then you had to defend your own base. If they took it while everyone was alive, that was the real payout.
I think it'd be worth that payout again now, considering all the stuff you have to go through to take one now in assault.
....Ah, but that's a lot of rambling. Thank you btw.
(Another similar fight; this from 8 vs 8 premades.)
After we lose our assaults, our 4 lighter mechs (2 heavies, 2 mediums I believe) take out 7 assaults (6 of them Atlases with ECM) and 1 Raven 3-L.
Boo Ya! <o7>
Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 April 2014 - 09:57 AM.
The point of this is that if the 3 at the top (Russ, Bryan and Paul) can't release a concise message, and be consistent in their statements, how are we... the great unwashed... able to do ANYTHING but argue semantics over bad information.
Thinking about it, you know what I never faced back in closed beta? More than 4 assaults. Never. Not even once. It was too expensive.
They were too slow. Too combat ineffective in large numbers. The lack of armlock made them entirely reliant on their arm weapons to protect themselves.
Streaks were barely useful against lights, useless at close ranges. The half-second firing delay on all weapons made ballistics difficult to use against lights, too. But when you did hit, it was glorious.
The only chance the Atlases would have is knocking them down or hoping they trip.
But unlike medium mechs, an Atlas isn't gonna knock over a light. They couldn't hope to catch the little 70 to 100 kph buggers.
Then you add in the repair bills and rearm bills for those who have yet to learn.
So no one in their right mind would intentionally run all assaults.
Ah... I miss those days. Even the day when the friendly Dragon knocked my commando half way across the map, only for me to teleport right back to where I was, get up, and him to knock me over again....because it was funny.
We rolled 8 Atlas a few times back then or 4Atlas, 2 Awesome and 2 Jenner. They were our Shenanigan drops. When we just wanted to laugh it up cause we had all drank enough to kill a bar crowd!
Ah... I miss those days. Even the day when the friendly Dragon knocked my commando half way across the map, only for me to teleport right back to where I was, get up, and him to knock me over again....because it was funny.
...I admit it was.
Ok, I'm just going to say it. The game was a lot more fun when there weren't artificial restrictions imposed on play in order to pander to the "Call of Battlehalo" and their never ending desire for an "easy button"
Out of curiousity, if you were PGI, where would you focus your efforts?
On making the dwindling hardcore playerbase happy in the hopes that they 'whale out' on your game again?
The thing is, the battletech and mechwarrior fans didn't abandon PGI.. PGI abandoned them, and it was only after PGI basically flat out said, "We don't care about you guys" that folks left this game for greener pastures.
What's crazy is that we're like a beaten dog, and we'd probably come back if they just freaking stopped beating us.
The thing is, the battletech and mechwarrior fans didn't abandon PGI.. PGI abandoned them, and it was only after PGI basically flat out said, "We don't care about you guys" that folks left this game for greener pastures.
What's crazy is that we're like a beaten dog, and we'd probably come back if they just freaking stopped beating us.
Out of the dozen's of BattleTech fans I know, I know of 5-7 that are here. And one of them has BattleTech/Mechwarrior Pods in his Garage!
The thing is, the battletech and mechwarrior fans didn't abandon PGI.. PGI abandoned them, and it was only after PGI basically flat out said, "We don't care about you guys" that folks left this game for greener pastures.
What's crazy is that we're like a beaten dog, and we'd probably come back if they just freaking stopped beating us.
I have to agree here, Ghost.
In closed beta, there were heat penalties (above 80% your weapons, equipment, heatsinks began taking damage, and if you had ammo at 101% it instantly exploded).
Before pilot skills, the game was very fair, very balanced-ish.
Damaged arm actuators screwed with horizontal or vertical aiming (very, very briefly with my time in it). Damaged leg actuators caused you to turn toward the direction of your damaged leg requiring frequent course corrections. Removed 'cause nothing told you what was going on.
LRMs were super fast, yet easy enough to dodge with tricks at 64.8 kph.
LRMs (little over 1 minute in). Watch the speed of the mechs. Delayed convergence, lack of pinpoint. The controls (actually the result of lag) felt different, unique. The delay in response gave me the illusion of a simulation where the mech's computer and gyro had to figure out how to do what I wanted without falling over.
But what's more... texture quality. Clarity of vision. The glow.
When I started MWO I fell in love with a simulation that had the controls of an FPS; sort of the best of both worlds.
But now, it's 3 steps from Hawken. Information warfare has been abandoned by PGI. Pinpoint has ruined a lot of simulation aspects. Pilot skills has turned heavies into mediums and mediums into lights and lights into Speedy Gonzolas. We have hit detection issues like mad, and PGI's solution is MOAR SPEED!
We already have freaking gundams. We don't need more speed. We need better balance and perhaps a bit less speed (as hit detection issues stem from too much speed).
Though, I think the biggest failure in balancing was to take weapon damage, and assume every shot had to deal that damage. Instead of looking at tabletop for what it is; a simplified summary of 10 seconds. But, that problem was long before I even joined it and if I had anything to do with development back then, I'd hit someone on the head.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying from PGI's persepctive, they've already screwed the pooch so hard that they're likely of the opinion that puppies via Founders are no longer even worth considering.
*I* KNOW we'd likely flock back...but I doubt they see it similarly.
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Craig Steele, on 06 April 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:
