46 replies to this topic

[Votanin FleshRender]

Can anyone give me some pointers on what builds/roles/play styles benefit the most, or need BAP? Scouts? LRM boats? Snipers?

Thank you in advance

[Modo44]

Answer this simple question: Do you have homing missiles?

[Dracol]

Bap provides 2 benifits: increase range for targeting mechs and cancel out ECM at 180m

Builds that benift from long range dectection: Scouts, long range mechs that require target locks for ease of shooting
Builds that benift from ECM cancelation: Streak boats and LRM, both of which become impotent if an ECM enemy approaches to closely

[Votanin FleshRender]

Modo44, on 09 April 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

Answer this simple question: Do you have homing missiles?

Artemis? Or streak? It helps both?

[Thorqemada]

Streaks?

BAP!

No Streaks?

Ignore it.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

ECM DDC? BAP!

[Modo44]

Votanin FleshRender, on 09 April 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

Artemis? Or streak? It helps both?

Homing missiles of any kind. BAP counters ECM, which is the main problem when using homing missiles. If you have BAP, no ECM mech can simply walk up and break all your locks.

[Redshift2k5]

BAP technically does some useful things for all mech builds; the issue is, that's tonnage often better spent.

If using SSRMs, BAP is pretty much a must-have addition. If not using SSRMs, you may benefit from increased sensor range or from faster data-gathering- but if you need those features, you can also supplement with Modules instead of paying tonnage.

In theory the added range could help with missile locks, sniping, etc. Missile fire out to 1000m(basic sensor range is closer to 800m) but really at 1000m LRMs are incredibly ineffective and you can often rely on allies to get long-range locks for you anyway. Snipers don't need to lock to land a shot, etc.

The ability to act as an always-on counter ECM is nice, but rarely will you want a mech dedicated to this role unless they are themselves using an ECM. Theoretically it could be useful but you might as well run an ECM light instead.

[Mycrus]

3 streaks = BAP

lurms? =/= BAP... no point really...

lurms benefit better from adv sensor and target decay... adv sensor punches through ecm from 180m to 250m

[DEMAX51]

I generally only use a BAP on builds that rely on streaks (the Jenner-D, or Shadowhawk/Kintaro streak-boats come to mind). For LRMs I usually don't bother, but if you've got the tonnage and crit slots to spare it can be useful.

Most other builds will find little benefit from BAP, and can put the tonnage to better use.

Edited by DEMAX51, 09 April 2014 - 08:51 AM.

[DONTOR]

Dracol, on 09 April 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

Bap provides 2 benifits: increase range for targeting mechs and cancel out ECM at 180m

It actually provides another benefit which is increased target info gathering by 25%. This means you see where the enemy is hurt and what weapons it has 25% faster, coupled with increased target info module its 50% faster which equals WIN, especially in 1vs 1 scenarios.

Thorqemada, on 09 April 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

Streaks?

BAP!

No Streaks?

Ignore it.

Not true LRM boats need BAP to cancel out ECM equipped mechs that are near them preventing them from getting locks on distant targets, aswell as the previously mentioned benefits of target info gathering.

Mycrus, on 09 April 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

3 streaks = BAP

lurms? =/= BAP... no point really...

lurms benefit better from adv sensor and target decay... adv sensor punches through ecm from 180m to 250m

True enough 2 or less streaks dont need a BAP, 3 or more is when it is important to use BAP. As I mentioned LRM boats do need BAP.
What is your source for ADV sensor range modle cutting through ECM? Ive never heard of that.

Edited by DONTOR, 09 April 2014 - 08:57 AM.

[Dracol]

Totally forgot about the 25% Target info benifit. Usually on snipers i just equip the module for info tme, but i can see the benifita of doubling up.

[DEMAX51]

Just another point - BAP also allows you to target (and, therefore, achieve lock-on for) shut-down 'Mechs within 120 meters.

[Fut]

DEMAX51, on 09 April 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

Most other builds will find little benefit from BAP, and can put the tonnage to better use.

This seems to be the most honest of answers, and I believe a few people have said variations of it.
"Most builds will see at least a little benefit from BAP"

BAP is a useful piece of equipment. Aside from the obvious benefits to LRMs/Streaks - It allows you to know information about your opponents sooner than you typically would, and as GI Joe has ingrained into most of us 'KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE".

If I could, I'd equip every single one of my Mechs with BAP. However, as others have already pointed out, that tonnage is usually better used for something else.

Edited by Fut, 09 April 2014 - 11:11 AM.

[DEMAX51]

Fut, on 09 April 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

This seems to be the most honest of answers, and I believe a few people have said variations of it.
"Most builds will see at least a little benefit from BAP"

BAP is a useful piece of equipment. Aside from the obvious benefits to LRMs/Streaks - It allows you to know information about your opponents sooner than you typically would, and as GI Joe has ingrained into most of us 'KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE".

If I could, I'd equip every single one of my Mechs with BAP. However, as others have already pointed out, that tonnage is usually better used for something else.

Indeed - on builds where I rely heavily on hit-and-run tactics, or snipers, I prefer to just use the Target Info Gathering module to get this information faster.

[Votanin FleshRender]

Modules are a tad outta my price range at the moment.

So, consensus seems to be... Most SSRM builds it's a must, somewhat useful for LRM boat, and nothing else needs to consider it. Not even scouting mechs?

[DEMAX51]

Votanin FleshRender, on 09 April 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Modules are a tad outta my price range at the moment.

So, consensus seems to be... Most SSRM builds it's a must, somewhat useful for LRM boat, and nothing else needs to consider it. Not even scouting mechs?

Pretty much, yeah.

[Dracol]

I'd say scouts can benefit from BAP. First, you have a good chance of detecting the enemy without being detected yourself. With out VOIP, the only way to really let all of your teammates know an enemy position is by targeting em. If you can do that with out giving yourself away, advantage you.

Second, relaying info on enemy positions is crucial to a light. If you get into a light on light battle with an ecm mech, without BAP (or your own ECM in counter mode) you're not able to relay the info back to your team.

But, like most things, YMMV

Edited by Dracol, 09 April 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[DEMAX51]

Dracol, on 09 April 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

I'd say scouts can benefit from BAP. First, you have a good chance of detecting the enemy without being detected yourself. With out VOIP, the only way to really let all of your teammates know an enemy position is by targeting em. If you can do that with out giving yourself away, advantage you.

BAP does nothing to keep you from being detected.

For scouts, the only real benefit of BAP is that it cancels one ECM and extends your sensor range. And to negate an ECM, you have to be within 180 meters of the enemy -- if they can't detect you when you're within 180 meters, you probably don't even need the BAP, because you're playing against morons.

It can be mildly useful to LRM-spotter Lights, but that's about it.

Edited by DEMAX51, 09 April 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[Sug]

I almost always make room for BAP no matter what the build. Faster targeting, greater sensor range,and ECM canceling. IMO 1.5 tons of BAP is more beneficial than AMS.

I can't count the number of times I've seen lance break off from the main group, go over/behind a hill, completely vanish from sensors and then 2 min later we get a bunch of "has killed" messages followed cries of "wtf why didn't anyone come help us??" "No one has LRMs???"