1126 replies to this topic

[Lucky Moniker]

I think that is a good solution, for the largest group of players.

[Roadbeer]

Not sure why there is still a conversation about this.

Biased Lead Designer issues dictate from on high about how it's not something that going to be worked on any time soon ever.

What's to discuss?

[RussianWolf]

Roadbeer, on 14 April 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Not sure why there is still a conversation about this.

Biased Lead Designer issues dictate from on high about how it's not something that going to be worked on any time soon ever.

What's to discuss?

oh come on Beer, I was already making plans to recruit a bunch of VOIPless newbs to invade the group queue to show how easy it is to exploit it. I was planning on dying a lot and driving my elo way down for the PUG queue.... ;D

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Roadbeer, on 14 April 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Not sure why there is still a conversation about this.

Biased Lead Designer issues dictate from on high about how it's not something that going to be worked on any time soon ever.

What's to discuss?

We can literally discuss paint drying on this forums, if a dev posts about it. For like 30 pages.

Because we are literally starved for interaction.

When they said they would double down on communication, what it meant was they would make more posts directly telling us what they would do...and then disappear for two more weeks.

Which is technically double the effort they were putting in before...but it's not really anything good for the game.

[Prezimonto]

Actually, great news... as long as it actually happens, and sometime sooner than next year.

So for the group queue put in a lance weight limit for groups of 50 tons per player, and cap the maximum lance tonnage around 200 as well. Make players deal with tonnage before you even get to the Match maker.

Because they're in groups, set the rules so they can't even drop as a group for match maker before they meet the requirements.

Edit:

second thought:
Give solo players a hefty bonus for dropping in the Group Queue. 2x rewards multiplier or something.

Heck, if we have in-game voice comms, and never drop in solo queue again if I could fill out a team and communicate with them.

Last thought:
If there's a Group queue, there's no real need for full lance groups on Solo queue at all. I'd cut down the maximum group size to 2 or 3 over there: just enough you can train a newbie friend in solo queue before dropping them in the meat grinder. This also then increases the pool of players for the group queue, leading to faster match finding times.

Edited by Prezimonto, 14 April 2014 - 11:58 AM.

[TygerLily]

RussianWolf, on 14 April 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

or after reading a couple post about not wanting solos in the Team queue

Rookie - Solo Only, Stock Mech, launch on even teams (7v7, 12v12 whatever is available at the time)

Veteran - Solo + 2-4man, only one team per side, 12v12, Open mech

Team - 2-12man teams and combinations, open mech, launch on even team +/-1 (7v7, 11v12, 3v4, etc)

I'm a veteran and I'd play the shit outta some stock Mech mode!!!! xD

[Felio]

One problem I have is that not all groups are created equal, but you are treating them equally.

There is no way for the matchmaker to know what gruops are just buddies playing stompy robots together and what groups are hardcores in voice chat in mechs carefully built to fight well together.

Do you actually have data showing all this is necessary?

If it is, what about artificially inflating a group's Elo and just putting them in the public queue? That's what League of Legends does, and their data show they only had to do it very slightly.

Don't make another overly complex solution to a simple problem.

[Gremlich Johns]

What if, in the group queue, a Clan team wants to drop 2 stars of mechs (that would be 10 mechs) against either an IS or Clan team instead of 12? Is there a Clan team only button that will override the 12-man group queue limitations?

Also, in PUG matches can you eliminate the sync drop so puggers that don't enjoy being totally dominated in a match by more than one pre-made team possessing tactics, coordination and comms?

BTW, teams in PUG matches could conform to 4-8-12 sizes (3 lances, irrespective of a player driving an IS or Clan mechs - IMHO) Can that be hard selected? Meaning, can the PUG launch module be configured to allow 4v4, 8v8, or 12v12 matches. Sometimes a 4-man team (like a small merc unit) just wants to fight the same number in a less chaotic setting before they answer a contract. With this in mind, your CW should be able to mitigate any disruption to the player base for a given play mode (if your player numbers are to be believed) in Community matches whereas the PUGs are for the more casual players.

[Heffay]

Prezimonto, on 14 April 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Give solo players a hefty bonus for dropping in the Group Queue. 2x rewards multiplier or something.

This is a bad idea. Nobody would drop in the public queue then, as all the solo droppers would be trying to get the bonus. Then the wait times for solo droppers in the group queue would be forever, unless you allowed entire matches to be filled with solo droppers. In which case the public queue would evaporate.

Don't cannibalize the public queue for the group queue. If the group support is as strong as the people who are asking for it are insisting it is, the group queue will be just fine.

[Prezimonto]

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

This is a bad idea. Nobody would drop in the public queue then, as all the solo droppers would be trying to get the bonus. Then the wait times for solo droppers in the group queue would be forever, unless you allowed entire matches to be filled with solo droppers. In which case the public queue would evaporate.

Don't cannibalize the public queue for the group queue. If the group support is as strong as the people who are asking for it are insisting it is, the group queue will be just fine.

eeehh..
Then don't give a bonus. I'd still drop in the group queue as solo if I could. It's much more likely I'll be playing with folks who know what they're doing rather than running around like kiddies in a 4 year old soccer game.

[DeathlyEyes]

Can you bring back the 8 man queue. Not all your maps are designed for 12 players anyway. It is much easier to grab 8 players than 12. Perhaps have 2 different queues, 1 for 8 man and 1 for 12 man.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Does 3/3/3/3 still apply? If you have a 10 man that only has a light and assault slot left, does that mean you're going to wait for a 2 man group with a light and assault makeup in the right Elo queue?

I didn't see anything about rewards, but may have missed that. Will you be able to earn c-bills and modify Elo in the group queue?

good question, as usual, there are many variables that create problems

Roadbeer, on 14 April 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Not sure why there is still a conversation about this.

Biased Lead Designer issues dictate from on high about how it's not something that going to be worked on any time soon ever.

What's to discuss?

biased?.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 14 April 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[Felio]

In the case of an 11-person group, could the matchmaker not just grab someone from the solo queue?

[Roadbeer]

BLOOD WOLF, on 14 April 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

biased?.

Yes, biased.

Given recent interactions with you, I don't feel like rehashing the topics of "launch" percentage discrepancies, impact of the group caps, and the decline group population over the last year. We've done that.

I also don't feel like pointing out to you how that entire post is dismissive and condescending.

So, at this point we're going to agree to disagree, because having a conversation with you is EXHAUSTING. You seem to think that I enjoy being mad at PGI, when the fact is, up to 2 months ago, I was one of their biggest cheerleaders.

Edited by Roadbeer, 14 April 2014 - 12:27 PM.

[Lucky Noob]

Calling it Solo Player que and alow 4 man premade in it is just an Joke.

Why not call it, Que as usual ?

[Felio]

Anyone else having flashbacks to ghost heat?

[moneyBURNER]

This is so...flabbergasting. Where is the logic that a solo player would be more successful teaming up with 11 random players than with an 11-man group, or multiple smaller groups?

PGI acknowledges the power of a 4-man premade in a PUG, but considers an 11-man premade to be outmatched by teaming with a single solo player, or the solo player to be shortchanged? And yet the matchmaker regularly launches games with unbalanced numbers.

Why is the solution not this simple? Two queues:

1) solo-only. period.

2) any-size groups, plus solo players to fill remaining spots (with a limit of solo players per team, from 1-4)

If solo players are getting stomped in the group queue, then they have the choice of playing in the solo-only queue! If the group queue has significant problems with finding matches, THEN consider alternative solutions. Give the community a chance to play without restrictions.

The solution to premade pug-stomping has always been to add a solo-only queue to give solo players a choice, not to take away choices and make compromises that screw everyone.

[101011]

Yeah, that is all very nice, but Clans drop in stars, not lances, PGI. Perhaps you could try to adhere to the lore on that?

[Pyrrho]

101011, on 14 April 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Yeah, that is all very nice, but Clans drop in stars, not lances, PGI. Perhaps you could try to adhere to the lore on that?

They have mentioned previously that they would explore the asymmetric drop sizes if 12 clan 'mechs were shown to be too much to handle. They didn't say how or when something like this would be examined, but based on other metrics they have collected it is possible they will make a long term decision on it roughly one week after the initial implementation.

[101011]

As a Clanner I should be able to drop as a Clanner, quineg? We do not use lances, yet they appear to be wanting us to use them anyways. Our entire touman is organized around groups of five, so why do we have to conform to a lance configuration?

Edited by 101011, 14 April 2014 - 12:36 PM.