1126 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

KingCobra, on 14 April 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

All I can say is if after 3 years PGI/IGP does not bring back the ability to group with friends play private matches and have true leagues like all past PC MechWarrior games everyone should stop[ paying into the game let it=MWO die a quick death and hope a company like Bethsaida picks up the pieces and makes it back into a true MechWarrior game.

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=QppFAoJRAOc

http://www.bing.com/...FE43E45D52BFD1D

what?

[Bhael Fire]

Craig Steele, on 14 April 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Won't this penalise small groups of 2 and 3 man teams (10% of activity according to PGI) as the majority of them will have no where to play?

How so? Smaller groups will be used to fill in the gaps in teams with larger groups.

For example, say a 9-man drops...the MM would then look for a 3-man first, then a 2-man and a solo player to team them up with. Simultaneously, it would be trying to do the same for the other team as it would try to adhere to a 1:1 group size balance.


Of course all of logistics could be tweaked a bit, but this is a concept that works in MANY other multiplayer games. Almost all of them allow players to drop in SOLO ONLY and GROUPS+SOLO queues.


Posting for ease of reference to the proposal:

Bhael Fire, on 14 April 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

SOLO ONLY queue

• Solo players only
  
• No groups

GROUPS (2-12) + SOLO Queue

• Allows groups with 2-12 players
  
• Allows solo players with groups enabled in launch preferences (+10,000 C-Bill "Hazard Pay" bonus)
  
• Matches large groups first, then small groups, then solo players (so 12-mans are likely to face other 12-mans)
  
• Matches groups on a 1:1 basis (or as close as possible)
  
• Never more than 1 solo player per team (to minimize PUG stompage in the group queue)
  
• Never more than 3 groups per team (i.e. no teams made up entirely of 2-mans or 3-mans)
  
• Drawback: Wait times longer than solo only queue

[NinetyProof]

Quote

A solo player would have MUCH greater success at winning in the regular public match than up against teams.

I disagree with this statement completely. I think it demonstrates a lack of understanding the mind set of "group" players.

Frankly if the choice is 11 premade + 1 puggie vs 10 premade + group of 2 permade, frankly the 11+1 is going to do better *because* the puggie knows to be a "wingman" for somebody in the premade. Vs the group of 2 that think: Hell, we are a group of 2, we will go off into never never land and be awesome (and die immediately cause they are separated).

PGI seems unreasonably concerned about a puggie making a bad decisions and get in over their heads by dropping into the group queue.

Solution: Restrict the *Group Queue for Solo Player* to ELO's T2 and T3. If the player is a T2/T3 they are probably going to be *just fine* in the group queue and getting attached to a team of 11.

Caveat: This could be used to tell when you move from T1 to T2, or visa versa ... whoop-de-do.

[Roadbeer]

Craig Steele, on 14 April 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

Hey hey hey, Sandpit said no more personal stuff.

Play fair or go to your room.

Nah, Heffay actually has thick skin, we can do this all day long and not actually offend each other, we know where each other is coming from and are just enjoying the sparing because we've been on the same side for so long.

You on the other hand...

[BLOOD WOLF]

Bhael Fire, on 14 April 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

How so? Smaller groups will be used to fill in the gaps in teams with larger groups.

For example, say a 9-man drops...the MM would then look for a 3-man first, then a 2-man and a solo player to team them up with. Simultaneously, it would be trying to do the same for the other team as it would try to adhere to a 1:1 group size balance.


Of course all of logistics could be tweaked a bit, but this is a concept that works in MANY other multiplayer games. Almost all of them allow players to drop in SOLO ONLY and GROUPS+SOLO queues.


Posting for ease of reference to the proposal:

Dude, saying it and the MM actually trying to do that, are two totally different things. Anybody can give a solution but getting it to actually work is the problem. Anybody who's sits here and says its a simple solution doesn't know what they are talking about. Especially when more mechs come, and tonnage really gets diverse

[Craig Steele]

Bhael Fire, on 14 April 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

How so? Smaller groups will be used to fill in the gaps in teams with larger groups.

For example, say a 9-man drops...the MM would then look for a 3-man first, then a 2-man and a solo player to team them up with. Simultaneously, it would be trying to do the same for the other team as it would try to adhere to a 1:1 group size balance.


Of course all of logistics could be tweaked a bit, but this is a concept that works in MANY other multiplayer games. Almost all of them allow players to drop in SOLO ONLY and GROUPS+SOLO queues.


Posting for ease of reference to the proposal:

Yes, I see your theory.

But if 2 and 3 man groups are a larger demographic than 4 man AND you put a cap on number of groups (3) for the very good reason your identified, won't that mean there will be 2 and 3 man groups with no "match"?

Becaase is there is only one solo player per team, the numbers don't add up do they. ie, 3 x 3 = 9 + 1 = 10 players?

How would your proposal cover this?

[Davers]

BLOOD WOLF, on 14 April 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Dude, saying it and the MM actually trying to do that, are two totally different things. Anybody can give a solution but getting it to actually work is the problem. Anybody who's sits here and says its a simple solution doesn't know what they are talking about. Especially when more mechs come, and tonnage really gets diverse

Well, tonnage will always be between 20 and 100 tons, at 5 ton increments...

[Novakaine]

Triordinant, on 14 April 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

Why, the reason is premades sync-dropping solo of course. They've been doing it for years and some brag about how easy it is to make sure they end up in the same matches. When Community Warfare kicks in, they'll even be assured of being on the same team because they're all the same Faction.

You know myself and some friends did a experiment this past week end.
Yes sync dropping.
And you know the most amazing thing we saw?
Not one freaking single time did all of us end up on the same side.
That was about 10 or 12 drops.
Some much for that straw man.
So unless everyone has roughly the same elo, then I don't see how that even happens.
On a side note 1 4man team is not a freaking sync drop.
Explain that.

[Roadbeer]

Novakaine, on 14 April 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

You know myself and some friends did a experiment this past week end.
Yes sync dropping.
And you know the most amazing thing we saw?
Not one freaking single time did all of us end up on the same side.
That was about 10 or 12 drops.
Some much for that straw man.
So unless everyone has roughly the same elo, then I don't see how that even happens.
On a side note 1 4man team is not a freaking sync drop.
Explain that.

In that case, you need to switch your premades up, try different game modes, once you start getting OP4 you know you're in the right mode and it's only a matter of time before you start getting on the same team.

Just sayin

[Craig Steele]

Roadbeer, on 14 April 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Nah, Heffay actually has thick skin, we can do this all day long and not actually offend each other, we know where each other is coming from and are just enjoying the sparing because we've been on the same side for so long.

You on the other hand...

Oooooo, so it's OK to do whatever we like if we can justify it to ourselves?

Seems legit?

I'll just leave this here for you.

Sandpit, on 14 April 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

no it's just another example of
"I really have no rational reason or argument against anything they've said so I'll resort to attacking them to try and distract from their ideas and maybe even get them baited into attacking me so I can either derail the thread or get them moderated"

It's a pretty common tactic used around here

[White Bear 84]

I just do not get why PUGS cannot have the option of dropping against groups if they specified they wanted to? Maybe they would like the challenge of playing amongst group? When I PUG, I prefer being on a team with a group that's for sure...

Edited by White Bear 84, 14 April 2014 - 08:51 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

BLOOD WOLF, on 14 April 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Dude, saying it and the MM actually trying to do that, are two totally different things. Anybody can give a solution but getting it to actually work is the problem. Anybody who's sits here and says its a simple solution doesn't know what they are talking about. Especially when more mechs come, and tonnage really gets diverse

First: A SOLO ONLY queue would be a snap for the match maker. Like, stupid fast.

Second: A GROUPS (2-12) + SOLO queue would not be any different that what it's doing now. During certain times it might be harder for large groups (8+) to find a match...but that's old news and nothing new to the matchmaker (in that game or any other). It's even in the disclaimer.

[Asmudius Heng]

White Bear 84, on 14 April 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

I just do not get why PUGS cannot have the option of dropping against groups if they specified they wanted to? Maybe they would like the challenge of playing amongst group? When I PUG, I prefer being on a team with a group that's for sure...

This is the crux of the issue despite all this screaming and yelling between a few people.

This is the only thing I really want to see Paul answer.

[SweetJackal]

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Nothing. But you're being given what you want (5-10 man groups) and are still whining. Why?

Uh, no, we aren't? That 5-10 man talk is: We aren't doing this for LM, here is what we could do and our design, Solo Players won't drop in Group Queue "Cause they are better off in Solo Queue", We aren't doing 5-10 queue, we will design more at some later point once "more important" things are done.

The 'bone' that is being thrown for any groups in the 5-11 range is "Improved Functionality In Private Matches" which has no bearing on things like CW or any form of rewards and tracking (And honestly, Private Matches shouldn't have stat tracking, rewards or anything of the like as that is just asking for abuse.)

So, what are more important things on the plate for PGI? Well, Clan Invasion's launch and the mythical Community Warfare that has been in feature creep hell for nearly two years. On that note I will be very surprised if the start of CW hits their very conservative estimates of Late Fall, though another release from them said that they didn't expect the last CW package/patch/module to be finished until Spring/Summer of next year so we are looking at a long development cycle of The Yellow Brick Road being patched in piece by piece.

So where does this sit? CW is played only in the public queue, 5-10 mans (even as silly limited as they are) aren't available in a public queue until more important things are developed and produced (like CW), Private Matches being expanded to accommodate the 5-10 crowd to hold them over in the mean time and "Solo Players are better off in Solo Group PUGs than Filling Holes in a Group Queue" (Something that some players are arguing against)

I want a public queue that allows for groups of all sizes so Group Play can become a focus for balance and CW. I want to be able to Solo Drop with groups to make it easy for me to find a group, meet players that are focused on teamwork and help foster a productive community. But according to the development team (I will take Paul as just a messenger for this statement) "They Know How I Want To Play And What I Will Enjoy" better than I do.

So again, I will ask, where are the 5-10 man groups?

[ZachMan119]

Eh, I don't know about this...

[Triordinant]

Novakaine, on 14 April 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

You know myself and some friends did a experiment this past week end.
Yes sync dropping.
And you know the most amazing thing we saw?
Not one freaking single time did all of us end up on the same side.
That was about 10 or 12 drops.
Some much for that straw man.
So unless everyone has roughly the same elo, then I don't see how that even happens.
On a side note 1 4man team is not a freaking sync drop.
Explain that.

1) Read Roadbeer's reply to your post. His group is good at making it happen pretty consistently.
2) Like I said in my post, when Community Warfare kicks in, you and your friends will ALWAYS be on the same side. Fact explained.

[Novakaine]

Roadbeer, on 14 April 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

In that case, you need to switch your premades up, try different game modes, once you start getting OP4 you know you're in the right mode and it's only a matter of time before you start getting on the same team.

Just sayin

Your probably right.
But that's just to much work to play with friends.
That's also why most of my friends are playing Arma 3 and blindly waiting for Star Villager or whatever it's called.

[Bhael Fire]

Craig Steele, on 14 April 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Yes, I see your theory.

But if 2 and 3 man groups are a larger demographic than 4 man AND you put a cap on number of groups (3) for the very good reason your identified, won't that mean there will be 2 and 3 man groups with no "match"?

Becaase is there is only one solo player per team, the numbers don't add up do they. ie, 3 x 3 = 9 + 1 = 10 players?

How would your proposal cover this?

As I mentioned, the MM would not try to put three 3-man groups on the same team; it would look for the largest groups first, smaller groups second, and then fill in the gap with a solo player (if needed).

[Sandpit]

Heffay, on 14 April 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

Is this where you put in a "PGI LIED, PEOPLE DIED" comment?



You of all people know why they don't promise stuff. Getting them to look at it and have a proposed solution is exactly what you deserve to get.

way to nto answer the question, personally attack someone, and try to detract from there points. Also good one trying to make it into something it's not by calling it QQ and whining and saying I said they lied (which was never even remotely hinted at in any of my posts) when I'm posting my feedback in the FEEDBACK thread.

gj just showing that you're quick to be a little PGI shill dude. keep on keepin on sparky

[Fiona Marshe]

Lance Queue: 2-4 players (3/3/3/3)
Group Queue: 5-8 players (2/2/2/2)
Company Queue: 9-12 players (3/3/3/3)

-> Launch module grabs two groups from the same queue and fills the rest with Solo players.
New Game Queue Priority: Company > Group > Lance

If programmable, when the initial matching times out: Group+Lance = Company, 2*Lance = Group.

If it still times out, fill with Solo players.