471 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 April 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

So If I get 7-9 Assists I am not pulling my weight?

Assists don't mean anything. They mean you damaged a mech.
I've seen bads die with two assists and only ONE damage.

Quote

I know most folks think that a high KDR is important, but it isn't.

K/D isn't "important". But it's an indication that a player is better than someone with a lower K/D.

Joseph Mallan, on 21 April 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

As to your perspective. If I die and the team wins and I get 3-4 more "Assists" after death... I still helped my team win even after I was no longer drawing fire r putting shots down range. I did my part for King and Country. I like Patton as a commander, making a sacrifice is sometimes necessary to ensure the team win.

No, once you are dead you are dead. You are no longer helping anyone. You have been eliminated from the equation.

If your team wins regardless that's fine.. but they didn't win because you died. They won in spite of it.

[AlmightyAeng]

Crimson Fenris, on 20 April 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

Kills are meaningless in a team-based game. A kill point has to be awarded to the player who did the most damage, not the one that put the final shot...

Which is still just as useless. That guy I see who put a full 250 damage on a Banshee...by blowing off it's arms...which have no weapons...is USELESS damage. The guy that put three 25-pt alphas into the Banshees torso and killed it is the damage that mattered.

One stat is not end all be all in this game...however, KDR, in conjunction with W/L, average damage done and average XP gives you a good indicator of skill or not.

[AlmightyAeng]

Roland, on 21 April 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

If you're running a negative K/D then your team is winning despite of you, not because of you.

A negative K/D ratio is always bad. There is no benefit to you dying. Your dying never helps your team.

I can't agree with this absolute statement. I've seen people do what Joseph is describing.

Ever been in a PuG where people REFUSE to move and cluster like shoot in a single place, allowing the enemy to surround you?

If a guy like Joseph leads a charge that damages a bunch of mechs before dying, giving the PuG a scent of blood that actually leads them to follow and attack...well...he died...but he instigated the potential for a win.

[CeeKay Boques]

If your mech is beat to hell, you're crit everywhere and have one small laser left... y'know what? Go hide. Its fine. You did your part.

If you're lightly dusted with yellow, have all your weapons, and plenty of ammo and 8 v 1 first of all, middle finger, secondly if you don't fight consider your coordinates announced. Let us see your final tryhardness.

[AlmightyAeng]

Errinovar, on 21 April 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

That said, epeen contests have always been popular. Particularly in FPS games. And nothing screams my epeen is bigger than yours than the old K/D ratio.

Nu uh! High damage/kills/assist screenshots! lol

[Roland]

Ghost Badger, on 21 April 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

I can't agree with this absolute statement. I've seen people do what Joseph is describing.

Ever been in a PuG where people REFUSE to move and cluster like shoot in a single place, allowing the enemy to surround you?

If a guy like Joseph leads a charge that damages a bunch of mechs before dying, giving the PuG a scent of blood that actually leads them to follow and attack...well...he died...but he instigated the potential for a win.

It's the actions before dying which have value. Not the dying itself.

And while there are isolated cases where making such sacrifices have value, it's generally the exception rather than the rule. If you are consistently dying more than you kill, then you are not playing effectively.

Whatever though. If you think dying is helpful, go nuts. It doesn't matter.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 21 April 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

Assists don't mean anything. They mean you damaged a mech.
I've seen bads die with two assists and only ONE damage.


K/D isn't "important". But it's an indication that a player is better than someone with a lower K/D.


No, once you are dead you are dead. You are no longer helping anyone. You have been eliminated from the equation.

If your team wins regardless that's fine.. but they didn't win because you died. They won in spite of it.

Assists mean that I helped a team mate beat an enemy Roland.

Quote

K/D isn't "important". But it's an indication that a player is better than someone with a lower K/D.

Lets look at this statement.
Joe's KDR is at 0.44. I have a 57% win rate.

[Cricket504]

I feel if your still functional even with nothing to shoot with, you can still contribute. Soak up damage or act as a shield to your other members that can still shoot. I had a match were my JM6 had its arms shot off and no weapons left. The match was down to 2 v 2 so went and rammed one of the other teams remaining mech. Did it do damage, nope, but it did distract them and they started to shoot me. Gave my other team member some free shots as I was finished off. Just because there are not you buddies on the team, its still your team and your job is to do the best for it.

[Anton Shiningstar]

Now as Anton I Have a 1.0 KDR and 70% win/loss... So is Anton a better player than Joe? If so how cause I am the the guy playing both?

[Joseph Mallan]

Anton Shiningstar, on 21 April 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

Now as Anton I Have a 1.0 KDR and 70% win/loss... So is Anton a better player than Joe? If so how cause I am the the guy playing both?

Sure its only 10 Matches since the wipe, but How can I be a better player as one Alt than I can as another?

[Roland]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 April 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

Assists mean that I helped a team mate beat an enemy Roland.

It means you damaged an enemy, potentially less than a single point of damage.
Assists don't really mean anything.

Joseph Mallan, on 21 April 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

Lets look at this statement.
Joe's KDR is at 0.44. I have a 57% win rate.

In the long run, a player with a higher K/D ratio is generally going to be better than one with a lower K/D.

Again, it doesn't really matter if you want to try and convince yourself otherwise. Knock yourself out.

[Joseph Mallan]

You're right Roland, You know what you know I know what I know. We are going to be in different camps forever on this one.

[Clownwarlord]

Personally over the year I have played I have seen people disco at the beginning (i don't blame them i treat it as a challenge to over come). Then there are those who after shit hits the fan they run away to hopefully live to fight another day (again i don't care because i would run away to live and fight another day or for a better opportunity). Then myself I have been the last living mech scaling a hill and get legged. So not like I am running far. Instead I find a corner to hide in and shut down so I can hopefully catch them off gaurd when ever they get around the mountain.

During that time I had ass hats for team members giving away position and status because they thought i was trying to drag out and not die when actually i was giving myself the best possible strategy. SO NO DON'T GET RID OF KDR JUST GROW A SET AND A BRAIN!!!

Edited by clownwarlord, 21 April 2014 - 06:47 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

clownwarlord, on 21 April 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

Personally over the year I have played I have seen people disco at the beginning (i don't blame them i treat it as a challenge to over come). Then there are those who after shit hits the fan they run away to hopefully live to fight another day (again i don't care because i would run away to live and fight another day or for a better opportunity). Then myself I have been the last living mech scaling a hill and get legged. So not like I am running far. Instead I find a corner to hide in and shut down so I can hopefully catch them off gaurd when ever they get around the mountain.

During that time I had ass hats for team members giving away position and status because they thought i was trying to drag out and not die when actually i was giving myself the best possible strategy. SO NO DON'T GET RID OF KDR JUST GROW A SET AND A BRAIN!!!

And add Assists to the stat list. I would like to see how man I accrue.

[Almond Brown]

Roland, on 21 April 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

stuff

No, once you are dead you are dead. You are no longer helping anyone. You have been eliminated from the equation.

If your team wins regardless that's fine.. but they didn't win because you died. They won in spite of it.

Way to be narrow minded dude. If 2 Mechs can identify, slow, stunt or even delay a good enemy flank, allowing the others to clean up their front, unmolested from said flank, then they may in fact be directly responsible for that particular win.

That fact you wouldn't/couldn't acknowledge that fact is quite troubling in a Team based game.

[Faith McCarron]

Assists are a terribad stat. Ever notice that when PGI Leaderboard challenges come along there are a ton of 2xERLL 3L's on the battlefield? It's because since assists are an easy point grab, lots of people take the 3L and focus on tapping every enemy mech.

Total damage isn't necessarily a good stat either. Take this scenario:

We stand face to face, you're in a Boar's Head and I'm in a 733C. I twist, jump and shield and spread your laser damage all over my mech. Then I punch out your side torso 400XL. You're dead and did 300 damage. I'm alive and did 100. Which one of us contributed more?

[Joseph Mallan]

Faith McCarron, on 21 April 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

Assists are a terribad stat. Ever notice that when PGI Leaderboard challenges come along there are a ton of 2xERLL 3L's on the battlefield? It's because since assists are an easy point grab, lots of people take the 3L and focus on tapping every enemy mech.

Total damage isn't necessarily a good stat either. Take this scenario:

We stand face to face, you're in a Boar's Head and I'm in a 733C. I twist, jump and shield and spread your laser damage all over my mech. Then I punch out your side torso 400XL. You're dead and did 300 damage. I'm alive and did 100. Which one of us contributed more?

Really? You think if having it as a stat to pad players would be more willing to mass fire on an opponent so they can get More assists and that would be a bad thing? Second... I don't boat lasers. I use a good mix of weapons except my Jager40. Which gets quite a few assists!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 21 April 2014 - 07:04 AM.

[Roland]

Almond Brown, on 21 April 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:

Way to be narrow minded dude. If 2 Mechs can identify, slow, stunt or even delay a good enemy flank, allowing the others to clean up their front, unmolested from said flank, then they may in fact be directly responsible for that particular win.

That fact you wouldn't/couldn't acknowledge that fact is quite troubling in a Team based game.

You don't do any of those things you described by being dead.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 21 April 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

You don't do any of those things you described by being dead.

No you get dead doing those things so your team can still win.

[Wolfways]

Roland, on 21 April 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

In the long run, a player with a higher K/D ratio is generally going to be better than one with a lower K/D.

So you don't want role warfare in the game? I mean if killing is the only thing that matters any other role is pointless right?