471 replies to this topic

[AlmightyAeng]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 April 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

But that is called Team work Badger. Each of you play your role knowing you will each others back. And like you said it may not be good for KDR but it will aid the win loss. I get 1 kill and 2-3 assists before I die, I did my part to help the team win. When the match is over I have 1 kill and 4-5 Assists even after being dead my effort still helped the team to to get a few more kills. That is a good days work.... Posthumously!

If I end up dead I often still feel like I 'did my job' based on the damage, kills and assists...and if I don't then I damned well can identify how I screwed up lol.

[Mystere]

Roland, on 21 April 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

If you're running a negative K/D then your team is winning despite of you, not because of you.

A negative K/D ratio is always bad. There is no benefit to you dying. Your dying never helps your team.

<steps out of the shadows>
K/D can never be negative.
<steps back into the shadows>

[AlmightyAeng]

Roland, on 21 April 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

You would aid your team more by killing more enemy mechs and dying less often.

Being alive vs. being dead with all the other stats equal, being alive is better. Yes.

Being dead with 800+ damage and 6 assists is better than being alive with 200 damage and 1 kill.

Being dead does not automatically label you a detriment, as being alive does not similarly convey instant awesome-sauce. Situational, game by game.

Can we all just drink beer, blow shit up and have fun now?

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 21 April 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

You would aid your team more by killing more enemy mechs and dying less often.

20 wins and 8 losses... I id my 8% and a good bit more I think. I would like to die less, but I on't hold it as the end all be all, I got used to the idea that I would likely die in 2.3 seconds should I get into a firefight. That is the stat I was given as a riflemen buy a officer once. So long as I o my part, I will take a victory posthumously any day.

[Harathan]

Roland, on 17 April 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

If you have a KDR less than 1, it means you are bad.

I think that's a criminal over-simplification, Roland. I could just as easily say: "If you have a KDR less than 1, you're a good player who doesn't give a toss about stats and is entirely willing to be the expendable bodyguard for heavier hitting mechs". Or here's another one: "If you have a KDR more than 1, you're a crap player who kill steals incessantly". Now for the record, I personally don't think the concept of kill stealing even applies in MWO since the objective is for your team to win rather than your lone self and any kill is a good kill, but my point stands.

Edited by Harathan, 21 April 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghost Badger, on 21 April 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Being alive vs. being dead with all the other stats equal, being alive is better. Yes.

Being dead with 800+ damage and 6 assists is better than being alive with 200 damage and 1 kill.

Being dead does not automatically label you a detriment, as being alive does not similarly convey instant awesome-sauce. Situational, game by game.

Can we all just drink beer, blow shit up and have fun now?

I'm still at work so I have to pass on 2 of 3!

Harathan, on 21 April 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

I think that's a criminal over-simplification, Roland. I could just as easily say: "If you have a KDR less than 1, you're a good player who doesn't give a toss about stats and is entirely willing to be the expendable bodyguard for heavier hitting mechs". Or here's another one: "If you have a KDR more than 1, you're a crap player who kill steals incessantly". Now for the record, I personally don't think the concept of kill stealing even applies in MWO since the objective is for your team to win rather than your lone self and any kill is a good kill, but my point stands.

In the Law we call that Confirmation not stealing.

[Adiuvo]

Harathan, on 21 April 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

I think that's a criminal over-simplification, Roland. I could just as easily say: "If you have a KDR less than 1, you're a good player who doesn't give a toss about stats and is entirely willing to be the expendable bodyguard for heavier hitting mechs". Or here's another one: "If you have a KDR more than 1, you're a crap player who kill steals incessantly". Now for the record, I personally don't think the concept of kill stealing even applies in MWO since the objective is for your team to win rather than your lone self and any kill is a good kill, but my point stands.

If the objective of the game is to kill things, and over time, taking into account all of your matches and not just one off situations, you kill less than you are killed then yeah, you're bad.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 21 April 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

<steps out of the shadows>
K/D can never be negative.
<steps back into the shadows>

Oddly, I just noticed this is true. I have 0 kills and 4 deaths in a Tbolt... KDR 0.00! That bugs the statistician in me.

Adiuvo, on 21 April 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

If the objective of the game is to kill things, and over time, taking into account all of your matches and not just one off situations, you kill less than you are killed then yeah, you're bad.

The fact that only ONE match has a kill only Victory condition is telling. In 2 scenarios you can win without killing a single opponent! It is not likely to happen in Conquest but it is a possibility.

[Roland]

Ghost Badger, on 21 April 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Can we all just drink beer, blow shit up and have fun now?

No, PGI doesn't let us easily play with our friends.

[AlmightyAeng]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 April 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Oddly, I just noticed this is true. I have 0 kills and 4 deaths in a Tbolt... KDR 0.00! That bugs the statistician in me.

Goddamnit Joe...NEVER DIVIDE BY ZERO! When you divide by zero you get shit like Ghost Heat and the universe explodes!

[Roughneck45]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 April 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

You do remember that I constantly seem to be the statistical anomaly over my lifetime in this game right?

Its because you don't play enough. Too much time playing forum warrior online, although I bet you have the highest KDR in that game!

Edited by Roughneck45, 21 April 2014 - 09:16 AM.

[Harathan]

Adiuvo, on 21 April 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

If the objective of the game is to kill things, and over time, taking into account all of your matches and not just one off situations, you kill less than you are killed then yeah, you're bad.

Or you play nothing but Conquest in a Light and never do anything but capture points with a specific focus on avoiding combat, resulting in a positive W/L ratio but a terrible K/D ratio?

Yeah, that must be a real bad player, right there.

Edited by Harathan, 21 April 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghost Badger, on 21 April 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Goddamnit Joe...NEVER DIVIDE BY ZERO! When you divide by zero you get shit like Ghost Heat and the universe explodes!

I've been gaming for over 30 years... I have destroyed my fair share of universes!

[AlmightyAeng]

Roland, on 21 April 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

No, PGI doesn't let us easily play with our friends.

Eh...just makes me sad to see two of the forum "voices of reason" who are normally all about hatin' on the stupid shit getting into a relatively arbitrary argument over what makes someone a 'better player.' There are SO many better uses in the threads for the pair of you and your analytical skills, lol.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roughneck45, on 21 April 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

Its because you don't play enough. Too much time playing forum warrior online, although I bet you have the highest KDR in that game!

I served my time playing 8 hours a night for <6 months and gaining nothing for it. Now I might log 8 hours a week (or two). I wait for a real reason to play more.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 April 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

You do remember that I constantly seem to be the statistical anomaly over my lifetime in this game right?

It is very narrow minded that a good player is based solely on his KDR. Good scouts don't have good KDRs, Good Fire Support is not always going t have high KDR. Good leaders may also not have high KDR. Three roles off the top of my head that don't need high KDR to be a benefit to a team.

I sincerely doubt that the entirety of your playing experience is made up of incredibly contrived exception experiences, where mine is mainly 12-3 killing everyone in sight.

Good players have good KDRs regardless of what mech they are running. Araara's is around 6. Anyone that has ever tangled with him in a light can tell me if he is good or not.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghost Badger, on 21 April 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

Eh...just makes me sad to see two of the forum "voices of reason" who are normally all about hatin' on the stupid shit getting into a relatively arbitrary argument over what makes someone a 'better player.' There are SO many better uses in the threads for the pair of you and your analytical skills, lol.

Sorry Dad!

[3rdworld]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 April 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

Sometimes, all the dip and duck in the world wont save you. Yes, boy wonder, you still do it, to prolong things, but there are plenty of times, no matter how good you are, you are going to die. Sometimes Mr Stark, somebody has to lay down on the barb wire. Especially those of us who don't drive Spiders, so the OpFor can actually hit us consistently. Much like Rolands comment I referred to, rarely does one have such a nice clean B&W option. But then, I am not in your Elo, I suppose, so am just lacking the skillz?

(perhaps you overlooked the words "buying the time"? Does not imply walking up and parking and shutting down. But I have played matches where even that split second did make the difference between a win and a loss, so yes, sometimes even that is acceptable, though preferably one goes down actually fighting.)

If I was going to give a movie reference to your position I would have picked Enemy at the Gates, but that is neither here nor there.

I do enjoy the overly condescension of your posts, but I am glad you recognize your betters.

On topic, okay, cool you can come up with some super rare no-win scenario. But that still doesn't invalidate the entire premise that good pilots get kills. I am not going to continue talking about some make believe part of a game that I could probably count on 1 hand how many times I have seen happen, as you will just change the factors and shift the goalposts anyways.

Edited by 3rdworld, 21 April 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 21 April 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

I sincerely doubt that the entirety of your playing experience is made up of incredibly contrived exception experiences, where mine is mainly 12-3 killing everyone in sight.

Good players have good KDRs regardless of what mech they are running. Araara's is around 6. Anyone that has ever tangled with him in a light can tell me if he is good or not.

And? Is that all he is good at? Is he a good leader? Can he use LRMs to good effect? He may be a great killer, but does his PUG team win in consistent fashion to his KDR? I'd much rather have 60% win loss than a 6:1 KDR(600%). Though I wouldn't be sad with that KDR at all.

See its all perspective and you are looking at such a small part of your worth. and whether you had a good game or not. That is Half empty thinking... I prefer the Half full outlook. Its how I keep playing at all in this boring rinse wash repeat gain nothing combat mechanic.

[Kroete]

hercules1981, on 17 April 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

I would bet money those players with higher kdr have a higher overall average damage per match then people with low kdrs so my stand is with kdrs actually a meaning of skill to a certain extent.

Or just have more flamers and mgs ...

If 5 mechs fire on one targets, does skill decides who of them gets the killingblow?

Is a scout in a light with narc a bad players because he dies more often and the lrm boats get the kills?

KDR says nothing about skill.

The possibility to influence kdr with holding shoots, running and hiding and weapons that are critseeking but doing nearly nothing to armor makes it as stat invalide.