322 replies to this topic

[Davers]

Flaming oblivion, on 22 April 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

Just like you will do anything to defend your position (until the day that will never happen) When grouping is made a lot easier and able to create 12 man teams that can face PuGs and PuGs players either are forced to group or leave or get perma stomped.

No one wants that. That is the 'Premade Boogieman Myth'.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Davers, on 22 April 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

Ummm...never. I think that was Randy.

HAHAHAhahaahahahh you bet, It's fun to see how fast you can get those who are high and mighty and all about themselves to jump into the gutter and sling shit. it shows their true nature. Craig has never kept me waiting and has never been a disappointment, at least in his effort, his actual results makes make baby Jesus cry but we aren't talking about that here.

Someone asked what the split was for group players when it comes to their solo dropping vs team dropping. for me it's about a 30/70 split. The reasons for dropping solo range from no one being on when I can get on to just needed to grind a little XP to finish opening a mech tree.

Between the two, Solo is fun and teaches you survivability how to play the hit and run game but the group drops teaches you how to count on your friends, how to set enemy mechs up for ambush and generally is far more enjoyable. Reporting a Battlemaster sneaking up on the right flank and having a team mate tell you to "just back up one square and draw him in, we got your back" is something that just makes you feel good. Getting 6 kills as a soloist makes you feel a different kind of good. Given the choice I would take the feeling from group play as it is a much warmer kind of good.

[Davers]

Craig Steele, on 22 April 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

I certainly cannot speak for all of them, but on several threads I have suggested it's a larger demographic than many assume.

I would summarise the demographic as having lots of RL stuff, responsibilities and so forth and strong values (sense of ownership etc). When they play, they have a certain window of time to play in and its a "plug and play" scenario for them. They don't want to waste time linking up with on line friends, they don't want the sense of obligation to play one more game until such and such can take his place. They want to log on, blow stuff up and get lost in the flash of lasers and roar of missiles for an hour / 2 hours or whatever. They play by themselves or maybe with a significant family member (brother, SO, child, whatever). They are not competitive per se, they just want a casual fun environment they can share with people close to them.

I also think they drop more money on the game than many people think. They want the shiny toys just like everyone else and have the disposable cash to buy them because they are to time poor to grind them.

I also think they rarely come to Forums, its the last place they are going to spend their limited "entertainment" time.

When I see posts like this suggesting the game should exclude Solo players from CW because they're not part of a team,



...that tells me there is a level of exclusion of this demographic by some. Some people have a view of how the game "should be" and it's to the exclusion of some demographics at times.

So I am kinda glad that there are posts seemingly identifying with this demographic. Whether its a 35% demographic or 70% I won't ever know, but its great to see some people highlighting another side to the one we see so often in Forums Threads. Now that some have spoken up, we can reflect on whether there is room in our personal visions of the game to accommodate someone else's desires.

The hard part is no game is going to encompass everyones needs, but its nice to at least consider other peoples desires and see if they can be accommodated.

Sure, there are players who due to RL issues don't feel they should join a group. But they are working under a misconception that using TS requires a commitment. There are many players that drop into TS once or twice a month for a few matches. No one is being forced to log in every day for x amount of hours.

There are studies of MMOs that came to the conclusion that players who belong to 'guilds' play more often than players who are not. Assuming that they spend more is an extrapolation of the data. While I would not disagree with it, I may well be wrong.

I don't see wander's post saying what you think it says. I don't see anywhere about excluding solo players from CW. In fact I read it as the opposite, that he feels PGI is excluding grouped players from CW in favor of solo players.

[RussianWolf]

Davers, on 22 April 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

No one wants that. That is the 'Premade Boogieman Myth'.

Going back to Sandpits post he is suggesting two queues

2-12 teams with Solos able to opt in.
2-4 teams with solos (Current Queue)

What about the solos that don't want to face teams at all? Rookies who are trying to figure out movement and weapons and such? The two queues above does, in fact, still force Solos to play against teams.

Then you have what I want which is Solaris VII, no teams, free-for-all.

Yes there are and have always been different factions in this game that want different things. Can I play your format? yes. But I'd like to be able to play mine too.

Edited by RussianWolf, 22 April 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Craig Steele]

Randalf Yorgen, on 22 April 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

HAHAHAhahaahahahh you bet, It's fun to see how fast you can get those who are high and mighty and all about themselves to jump into the gutter and sling shit. it shows their true nature. Craig has never kept me waiting and has never been a disappointment, at least in his effort, his actual results makes make baby Jesus cry but we aren't talking about that here.

Someone asked what the split was for group players when it comes to their solo dropping vs team dropping. for me it's about a 30/70 split. The reasons for dropping solo range from no one being on when I can get on to just needed to grind a little XP to finish opening a mech tree.

Between the two, Solo is fun and teaches you survivability how to play the hit and run game but the group drops teaches you how to count on your friends, how to set enemy mechs up for ambush and generally is far more enjoyable. Reporting a Battlemaster sneaking up on the right flank and having a team mate tell you to "just back up one square and draw him in, we got your back" is something that just makes you feel good. Getting 6 kills as a soloist makes you feel a different kind of good. Given the choice I would take the feeling from group play as it is a much warmer kind of good.

Yup, sure is Randy, welcome to the thread, you're right on que.

Sad to see your regression though Randy, we were making such progress on you being a half decent human being. You keep going backwards like this and you'll be living in a cave hunting Sabre Tooths, but then again, you probably like that simpler life style, less conflict for you to deal with.

You just keep on posting garbage though Randy, I love all your personal little fears and prejudices being addressed at me, makes me feel a better person for giving you an outlet to express yourself.

Good to see you've stopped quoting things outside your knowledge base now though, wait, what did you actually say?

I'll just leave this here for you.

Sandpit, on 14 April 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

no it's just another example of
"I really have no rational reason or argument against anything they've said so I'll resort to attacking them to try and distract from their ideas and maybe even get them baited into attacking me so I can either derail the thread or get them moderated"

It's a pretty common tactic used around here

[Harathan]

RussianWolf, on 22 April 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

Going back to Sandpits post he is suggesting two queues

2-12 teams with Solos able to opt in.
2-4 teams with solos (Current Queue)

What about the solos that don't want to face teams at all? Rookies who are trying to figure out movement and weapons and such? The two queues above does, in fact, still force Solos to play against teams.

But the current system is exactly that, the current system, not something group players are trying to force on solos but something that PGI implemented.If we're going to be completely inclusive, there actually needs to be 3 queues:

Solo only queue
Solo and groups queue
Groups only queue

We can dream, right?

[Joseph Mallan]

RussianWolf, on 22 April 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

I remember those arguments. I recall being told on many occasions that this is a team game and I should go elsewhere. Now, I'm here and most of them are gone. I'm still putting money in (granted less now, bought the KitFox package until PGI gives more info, etc.) and most of them are spending none. I guess most of them aren't really that dedicated to the IP, they just wanted to act like it.

So we have you, and we have me two sides of the same coin. So we have balance. I haven't spent money here for two reasons. 1) I haven't seen anything worth my money, Could I buy stuff? Sure but i have my Battlemaster, I have the colors I need to be a Lawman.

and 2) (most important) my wife has expressed displeasure in my spending money on a online game. 25 years of wedded bliss or keeping PGI solvent...

My Boo won that decision easy.

[Craig Steele]

Davers, on 22 April 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

Sure, there are players who due to RL issues don't feel they should join a group. But they are working under a misconception that using TS requires a commitment. There are many players that drop into TS once or twice a month for a few matches. No one is being forced to log in every day for x amount of hours.

There are studies of MMOs that came to the conclusion that players who belong to 'guilds' play more often than players who are not. Assuming that they spend more is an extrapolation of the data. While I would not disagree with it, I may well be wrong.

I don't see wander's post saying what you think it says. I don't see anywhere about excluding solo players from CW. In fact I read it as the opposite, that he feels PGI is excluding grouped players from CW in favor of solo players.

My point isn't about being right or wrong, never has been.

Its about embracing everyones view, and trying to build something more inclusive.

[Davers]

RussianWolf, on 22 April 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

Going back to Sandpits post he is suggesting two queues

2-12 teams with Solos able to opt in.
2-4 teams with solos (Current Queue)

What about the solos that don't want to face teams at all? Rookies who are trying to figure out movement and weapons and such? The two queues above does, in fact, still force Solos to play against teams.

Then you have what I want which is Solaris VII, no teams, free-for-all.

Yes there are and have always been different factions in this game that want different things. Can I play your format? yes. But I'd like to be able to play mine too.

Many players have asked for a 'solo only' que and a 'groups 2-12 with solo players who opt in' que. Some players wanted to keep small groups in the solo que (1-3 or 1-4), but that kind of defeats the point.

The simple truth is that today's F2P solo player is tomorrow's 12 man organizer. PGI should keep them both relevant and fun and ease the transition from one to another.

[Artgathan]

Galenit, on 22 April 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

[/size]
If you go the 50/50 way, this would also increase the number for soloplayers.
If its 50/50 you have not only to count the solos to groups, you also have to count the groups to the solos, because they do their groupsdrops only 50% of the time.

Numbergames work both ways and still not tell the truth.

It doesn't increase the number of solo players. I don't think you're correctly interpreting what I said.

• We know that not all solo players drop in groups, but some (if not all) group players also drop solo.
  
• Given a number of "Launches", we can then assume that people who drop in groups account for some proportion of the solo drops (in addition to their group drops) since they appear in both queues. This is not true for players that solo exclusively.

What you are proposing is essentially to double-count everyone, while I'm removing the double-counting.

[Davers]

Craig Steele, on 22 April 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

My point isn't about being right or wrong, never has been.

Its about embracing everyones view, and trying to build something more inclusive.

So everyone has been in agreement all along. That is good to know.

[Roadbeer]

Craig Steele, on 22 April 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

My point isn't about being right or wrong, never has been.

Its about embracing everyones view, and trying to build something more inclusive.

LOL, but you argue vehemently with anyone who disagrees with your view, which seems to change with the wind. The only consistent theme is that those who are arguing for more choice, you hamfistedly cling to Paul's statistics stating that there is no reason for separate queues, and those who want a group queue are somehow being exclusive.

I don't even bother reading, much less responding to your posts anymore because you invoke an unholy combination of bullshit and verbosity, spending 1000 words to say absolutely nothing.

Brevity, do you speak it?

Edited by Roadbeer, 22 April 2014 - 08:42 AM.

[Galenit]

Artgathan, on 22 April 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

It doesn't increase the number of solo players. I don't think you're correctly interpreting what I said.

• We know that not all solo players drop in groups, but some (if not all) group players also drop solo.
  
• Given a number of "Launches", we can then assume that people who drop in groups account for some proportion of the solo drops (in addition to their group drops) since they appear in both queues. This is not true for players that solo exclusively.

Lets change some words:

• We know that not all group players drop solo, but some solo players also drop in groups.
  
• Given a number of "Launches", we can then assume that people who drop solo account for some proportion of the group drops (in addition to their solo drops) since they appear in both queues. This is not true for players that group exclusively.

As i said, numbergames work both ways ...


But why do you still defend numbers that are pure speculating without any evidence?

Without the raw numbers and information about the sample we can only say one thing:
There is not enough information to say anything about it.

[RussianWolf]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 April 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

So we have you, and we have me two sides of the same coin. So we have balance. I haven't spent money here for two reasons. 1) I haven't seen anything worth my money, Could I buy stuff? Sure but i have my Battlemaster, I have the colors I need to be a Lawman.

and 2) (most important) my wife has expressed displeasure in my spending money on a online game. 25 years of wedded bliss or keeping PGI solvent...

My Boo won that decision easy.

yeah, I can't for the life of me talk myself into paying more than the $30 for the freebies. I'll just pay cbills for the other mechs later.Not like I don't earn enough. The money isn't an issue, PGI's complacency is.

Roadbeer, on 22 April 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

LOL, but you argue vehemently with anyone who disagrees with your view, which seems to change with the wind. The only consistent theme is that those who are arguing for more choice, you hamfistedly cling to Paul's statistics stating that there is no reason for separate queues, and those who want a group queue are somehow being exclusive.

I don't even bother reading, much less responding to your posts anymore because you invoke an unholy combination of bullshit and verbosity, spending 1000 words to say absolutely nothing.

Brevity, do you speak it?

but isn't that we we see everywhere. Politics, Religions, Mechwarrior etc.

[DirePhoenix]

Randalf Yorgen, on 22 April 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

Between the two, Solo is fun and teaches you survivability how to play the hit and run game but the group drops teaches you how to count on your friends, how to set enemy mechs up for ambush and generally is far more enjoyable. Reporting a Battlemaster sneaking up on the right flank and having a team mate tell you to "just back up one square and draw him in, we got your back" is something that just makes you feel good. Getting 6 kills as a soloist makes you feel a different kind of good. Given the choice I would take the feeling from group play as it is a much warmer kind of good.

You don't need to be in a pre-made group to have teamwork though. You just have to be willing to communicate and work with the people on your team. Right now, premades have a huge advantage in that they often have their own voice comms, and voice comms are a lot easier than typing in chat or taking the time to pull up the battlegrid, take command, and point on the map your orders. Supposedly they are working on an integrated VOIP (more integrated than the current external C3), but in a PuG you may still have the issue of getting grouped with people that don't speak your language. A quick-command wheel (which is also supposedly in the works) will help tons with this as you will more easily be able to communicate pre-generated text phrases (or possibly link that to pre-generated audio) translated into the local client's language like "attack target <insert designation>" or "hold at Theta" or "return to base"

...I'd also like to point out that pre-made lances (or sub-lances) that don't communicate or work with the rest of their team outside of their group is still not a good example of "teamwork".

[Davers]

RussianWolf, on 22 April 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

yeah, I can't for the life of me talk myself into paying more than the $30 for the freebies. I'll just pay cbills for the other mechs later.Not like I don't earn enough. The money isn't an issue, PGI's complacency is.


but isn't that we we see everywhere. Politics, Religions, Mechwarrior etc.

Yes, but unlike the other two Mechwarrior is important and may be something we can actually make a difference in.

[dezgra]

I drop solo because I am unworthy, do not have friends, and Natasha Kerensky called me "smigel".

[Ihasa]

I have never and will never drop solo.

[Joseph Mallan]

RussianWolf, on 22 April 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

yeah, I can't for the life of me talk myself into paying more than the $30 for the freebies. I'll just pay cbills for the other mechs later.Not like I don't earn enough. The money isn't an issue, PGI's complacency is.


but isn't that we we see everywhere. Politics, Religions, Mechwarrior etc.

The money is the issue for me. I can hold an Atlas in my hand for 11.80. a Stone Rhino for $14.25... I get to look at a Boars head for $30?

A artist was paid to design em and a sculptor was paid to create em and at $19 per pound for Pewter... there is a reason it costs as much as it does for Minis. Boar's Head isn't worth the my money by comparison. It also does not have the Limited Edition collectability factor going for it like the Jumping Atlas when it was released!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 April 2014 - 09:41 AM.

[Wascally Wabbit]

Because my wife says it would not be a good idea.....apparently I get a little profane when I play.....How is that bad?