Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time
Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:47 AM
East Indy, on 22 April 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:
Because that player's problem was not using arm movement at all, rather than swinging that cursor around like kool kidz. There are better ways for you to offer breathless, blanket condemnations.
lolz, yes, and your patronization is so preferable, my superior, erudite friend? The point obviously eludes you still.
Arm lock = Crutch. It is exploited at higher levels of play to become the norm, and so poorly explained that newer players are gimped by it. It is broken at BOTH extremes. You don't like the thread, you have an easy solution. Don't read or post on it. Buh bye! Plenty of other threads for you to pontificate on!
Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 April 2014 - 12:01 PM.
Its mostly used on high alpha strike builds to give near perfect convergence on one spot. Most noob players forget to deselect it.
some people do have issues when your arm weapons are on a circle and CT on the crosshairs.
I love when a mech has its arm locked. If I am in a light I will test it by using uneven terrain.
I started out in a Commando with arm weapons so I'll never use it. Being able to be in a full run and shooting full far right or left is just to much of a advantage.
I love firing from a elevated position on a dude who's arms are locked.
A perfect example is a guy with 2 PPC and a ac 10 on the arm he would have his arms locked so he does 30 to one spot.
I mean, I wouldn't be butthurt about it. I use it because I can, not because I need it.
Though to me it just nerfs mechs with lower arm actuators. The norm for CTFs is approaching all torso mounted weapons, and then you have mechs like the 733C which even though the ballistic is in the arm, it lacks the lower arm actuator.
I think you will find much of the same situation when the clans come, as many of their mechs also do not have the lower arm, and will operate very similar to arm lock all of the time. Which now they have the advantage in crits, would further increase their advantage by having a pseudo arm lock.
Most of those mechs lack hand actuators, not lower arm actuators, I believe.
Your point is valid here though, in that mechs with arm actuators are actually at a disadvantage in many ways, which really should not be the case at all.
My truck crew is widely known in state as being one of the best in M2 gunnery. This is largely because I teach and enforce the use of the M2's traverse and elevation unit which locks the weapon in position for firing and allows fine repeatable adjustment. I cannot express how many people I've known in my 14 years of service who have pissed time and money downrange because they felt a T&E was a crutch, a cheat, or somehow less manly than spraying 300 rounds downrange to hit a target ONCE. Your complaint sounds just like those fools. If something works, if it increases my lethality and lowers my potential for collateral damage I WILL use it. Bottom line: pinpoint damage, more weapons can be mounted in stronger positions, and in the rare instances that I need the extra movement there is a momentary toggle (that I too wish was a push on/off)
And in case you think I'm talking out my ass, heres my gunner Harris wrecking face
And me on my Gunner down drill
They gave us 1000 rounds for the entire day run, we qualified first time go in 250.
Yes, my callsign really is Red 5. Yes, I say that im standing by as much as humanly possible on the radio for Lolz
Edited by Khajja nar Jatargk, 22 April 2014 - 12:52 PM.
Most of those mechs lack hand actuators, not lower arm actuators, I believe.
Your point is valid here though, in that mechs with arm actuators are actually at a disadvantage in many ways, which really should not be the case at all.
The thing with Clan Omnis is that placing any AC, Gauss, or PPC on the arms will immediately remove your lower arm actuators on any chassis. All that is left to know is if this will make them have "permanent armlock" or just reduced arm movement like the Victor and Highlander variants that lack lower actuators.
Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time
Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:13 PM
Khajja nar Jatargk, on 22 April 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:
My truck crew is widely known in state as being one of the best in M2 gunnery. This is largely because I teach and enforce the use of the M2's traverse and elevation unit which locks the weapon in position for firing and allows fine repeatable adjustment. I cannot express how many people I've known in my 14 years of service who have pissed time and money downrange because they felt a T&E was a crutch, a cheat, or somehow less manly than spraying 300 rounds downrange to hit a target ONCE. Your complaint sounds just like those fools. If something works, if it increases my lethality and lowers my potential for collateral damage I WILL use it. Bottom line: pinpoint damage, more weapons can be mounted in stronger positions, and in the rare instances that I need the extra movement there is a momentary toggle (that I too wish was a push on/off)
And in case you think I'm talking out my ass, heres my gunner Harris wrecking face
And me on my Gunner down drill
They gave us 1000 rounds for the entire day run, we qualified first time go in 250.
Yes, my callsign really is Red 5. Yes, I say that im standing by as much as humanly possible on the radio for Lolz
Dude. I respect you, you know that.
But let's get over the illusion that this is reality. This is an FPS game, and as such, it should be about skill, not crutches. Or has the military completely moved away from teaching people how to use iron sights in favor of optics?
The point of this has NOTHING to do with IRL.
The point is 2 fold.
We have a game, where the players and devs almost unanimously acknowledge the TtK is far too fast. (even though real life combat, TtK tends to be either your weapon is totally inadequate, or your target is almost insta-killed, that doesn't really lend to a fun game, right?) To the point you constantly have people crying for doubled (again!) armor and turnign ALL weapons into some form of DoT mechanic. The Arm Lock mechanic is being used to exacerbate the primary cause of fast TtK, pinpoint, instant FLD.
Hence it runs negative to the stated goals of the Devs.
The second point, is that because of the cluttered nature of the UI, and lack of proper tutorial setup (and ability to simply skip it) you have a large population of newer players with their combat abilities pre-gimped because they don't even KNOW they have arm lock engaged, or it even exists. And thus, many die faster, and many people have an even less desirable early experience with the game, which does not tend to lend itself to player retentions.
So in summary my friend, it is a game mechanic exploited to increase lethality in High End play, and that more often than not hurts the play of new, low end players. That is the relevant point, not IRL mechanics and feasibility.
Bishop Steiner, on 22 April 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:
So in summary my friend, it is a game mechanic exploited to increase lethality in High End play, and that more often than not hurts the play of new, low end players. That is the relevant point, not IRL mechanics and feasibility.
To what extent, do you think, that trickle-down balance ideologies fit into the arm-lock question? If it works at the top it should be the norm, right?
Bishop Steiner, on 21 April 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:
Rant thread!
What The heck is up with the arms lock? I get n00bs and scrubs using it, but seriously, why else would you use it? Can't hold your arm and torsos together?
Just had an AWESOME match on Tourmaline. We were down a LOT. I manage to get 5 kills on my ct cored Orion, and trash their last match, a ShadowHawk before going down.
Our last mech? A BoarsHead with no armor breaches. Our guy retreats to the turrets, in full zoom the whole time, and the trashed Shad hunts him down. Our team is thinking...cool. we got this, hard fought win.
Except our Boars Head had his lasers in arms lock. Could barely track the other mech. And after an excruciating 2 minutes of fat guy circling the fox, dies, costing us the game. GG JoolNoret, you fought well, our fatty should have won, but your skill was better than his. (And hey you killed me too, though I was trashed by the time we met. Still well done, sir!)
Moral of the story.. Arms Lock is for bads, and if you use it you should feel bad. Against mobile opponents, you will lose, almost every time.
Rant over.
Bish, you're my boy and I dig ya. But, you're asking a question about why some mindless oaf would have arm lock on? Most people are too stupid to put arm mounted weapons on different weapon sets than their torso mounted weapons let along a left/right arm only group. Honestly, arm lock, 3pv, Advanced Zoom module, etc are all idiot catches. It's sad and yet our game play experience is brought down by these horribads (worse than terribads).
Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time
Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:43 PM
Pyrrho, on 22 April 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:
To what extent, do you think, that trickle-down balance ideologies fit into the arm-lock question? If it works at the top it should be the norm, right?
no. Because to be at the top is all about finding every little thing to exploit to get that edge. The top should be used to give a good view of what needs fixing.
Top tier players never NEEDED arm lock. Until it was introduced and people discovered it was a great way to exploit a mechanic to get an edge. Remove it, and the real top tier players will simply adjust and move on.
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Posted 22 April 2014 - 01:47 PM
Jownzee, on 22 April 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:
That Boars Head was me! I didn't even know I could switch am lock off tbh wish I'd known before now.
I'll be toggling that off next time I log on though!
Not winning that game for the team, or not knowing about the arm lock doesn't make me a bad player!
I had done plenty in that round to get the team back into it in the first place.
I'll learn from it, and it'll help me in the future!
The thing with Clan Omnis is that placing any AC, Gauss, or PPC on the arms will immediately remove your lower arm actuators on any chassis. All that is left to know is if this will make them have "permanent armlock" or just reduced arm movement like the Victor and Highlander variants that lack lower actuators.
Is that true? I thought it removed the hands, not the entire lower arm.
Is that true? I thought it removed the hands, not the entire lower arm.
Yup.
Command Chair Post said:
In addition to the limitations of the base configuration, the following rules apply when customizing any OmniMech.
If any of the following weapons are equipped in an OmniMech’s arm, any Lower Arm Actuator or Hand Actuator that was present in the base configuration is automatically removed:
Any Gauss rifle.
Any autocannon.
Any PPC.
He's not asking why some nub had armlock on, he's asking why we still have it in the game. It's a must-use exploit at high end and an extra gimp for the tutorial-challenged at the low end.
Arm lock should be removed. It'd be another bullet in the forehead for the poptart/hillhumper meta and sweet baby jesus that is a mercy killing that can't be done fast enough.
Removing arm lock would be brilliant. Just take it out of the game.
You know, if premium private servers would let you actually do stuff like remove Ghost Heat, remove arm lock, prevent coolant flush, lock each side to faction mechs and otherwise let you un-gimp all the crushingly poor design choices that have been made I'd be tempted to pay for it.
At that point though I'd literally be paying money to get PGI to let me roll back poor design choices. The irony of that would eliminate whatever satisfaction I would get out of actually paying for a game somewhat like what was originally offered by PGI as F2P.
Is that button for arms lock toggle is not actually a toggle you need to keep pressing it for it to work. Why cant it be toggle, like it says!!!
THAT is what really pisses me off about it. There are some mechs where I might want to use it and others where I wouldn't. But, that I have to keep it pressed and it hurts muh finger!
----------------------------------
For the record, I see why people use it. I've used it in the past and I sometimes hate when I don't use it in some instances. On some maps, like Caustic Valley, where there is a lot of odd terrain, it is beneficial to use it for a split second so that you can put your torso and arm mounted weapons in the same spot. And, there were times in my 3D (sold it a long time ago and don't mind it at all) where I was jump sniping and I would use it because the jump jet effect would alter where my cross hairs would be when I wanted to fire (at the peak, obviously). I really don't like it but I see the benefit of it.
The problem, though, lies in the fact that Auto Arm Lock (read: NOT the ghetto toggle [it isn't a toggle if it only works when you're pressing the button) stays on once you've finished your "cadet training". So, a lot of new players have it on when they should be beyond its use. Plus, there isn't anything in the game that helps you train without it. So, we're in a situation where new playes use it to learn the game but end up keeping it on when they're beyond that learning curve while high end players use it to get around (semi-exploit) the in game mechanics that would otherwise put damage in multiple locations or outright miss. It is a problem and it needs to be fixed but I don't see it being something that needs to go away.
Bishop Steiner, on 21 April 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:
kinda surprised a wolf would need a crutch. Believe it or not, it is hardly needed. I certainly never have. Then again I never felt the need to adopt poptarting either. Losing your range of fire, for something that simply learning battlefield awareness and good reflexes should provide?
I don't see much difference between a player that knows when to turn arm-lock on, and a player that knows when to turn it off. Both of them can effectively activate/deactivate arm-lock to achieve the same results and flexibility.
It's like playing inverted. Some people just learned one way over the other. In the end it's whatever gives you better control and the best results.
Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time
Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:27 PM
Aresye, on 22 April 2014 - 04:15 PM, said:
I don't see much difference between a player that knows when to turn arm-lock on, and a player that knows when to turn it off. Both of them can effectively activate/deactivate arm-lock to achieve the same results and flexibility.
It's like playing inverted. Some people just learned one way over the other. In the end it's whatever gives you better control and the best results.
The end result is to remove the easy switch. Not to reverse it. Arm lock should only be in the game for Cadets. The pinpoint meta is already too out of hand for you to need help making it worse. High end players were fine before it was added, and will be fine again if it is removed. Low end players on the other hand are playing in a straightjacket, and not even knowing it.
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East Indy, on 22 April 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:
