536 replies to this topic

[Solahma]

Ghost Badger, on 01 May 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

Probably because you don't see high ELO solo players complaining about groups very often.

Even mediocre ELO solo players...

I wonder who the vocal minority is in this thread

[Davers]

Craig Steele, on 01 May 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

This opinion of Solo players is hardly rare. I've see it often coming from players in threads imploring a team queue.

I'm glad you are here. Maybe you can explain to Jun how premades have to fight against pugs. You make very eloquent arguments.

[Craig Steele]

Ghost Badger, on 01 May 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

Probably because you don't see high ELO solo players complaining about groups very often.

I don't see how the inverse is an impact on the statement?

Can you explain what you mean please?

Are you saying that if High ELO Solo players posted on the forums complaining about Groups then all those other players would have a different opinion to the one posted ad nauseum about Solo players?

Davers, on 01 May 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

I'm glad you are here. Maybe you can explain to Jun how premades have to fight against pugs. You make very eloquent arguments.

LOL, Jun's fighting his own fight

[Joseph Mallan]

Solahma, on 01 May 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

Even mediocre ELO solo players...

I wonder who the vocal minority is in this thread

I don't know, I play on both sides of the fence, I just don't see the issue.

Craig Steele, on 01 May 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

LOL, Jun's fighting his own fight

Is this like saying he is tilting a Windmills?

[Davers]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 May 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

I don't know, I play on both sides of the fence, I just don't see the issue.

However, you are also a self proclaimed masochist.

[AlmightyAeng]

Craig Steele, on 01 May 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

I don't see how the inverse is an impact on the statement?

Can you explain what you mean please?

Are you saying that if High ELO Solo players posted on the forums complaining about Groups then all those other players would have a different opinion to the one posted ad nauseum about Solo players?

Yes, that's pretty much what I'm saying. The poor perception that many group players have of solo players is often formed from the posts solo players make here. Of the people who are bad at this game AND who post here on the forums, it's rarely people dropping in groups complaining, it's solo players. The same players often complain about the meta, or specific weapons being unbalanced...when general opinion is often that they're just poor players.

I'm not saying that all solo players suck and thus should have their opinion discounted...but I am saying that some of the loudest voices complaining about groups rolling them can be found complaining about other issues that are just as equally NOT the problem.

High ELO, incredibly good solo pilots are welcome to correct me and tell me that "Yeah, premades are killing this game" and I'll probably weight their opinion as heavier, since I acknowledge that they actually know what they're doing in this game.

It's the same reason why I ignore almost every post in the "LRM Flooding, New FOTM"-style threads...the people creating them are hopelessly bad at this game because they don't understand how to play it. Why the hell would I give their opinions on balance and game design any credence?

Edited by Ghost Badger, 01 May 2014 - 06:46 AM.

[Craig Steele]

Ghost Badger, on 01 May 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

Yes, that's pretty much what I'm saying. The poor perception that many group players have of solo players is often formed from the posts solo players make here. Those solo players are, often, pretty bad. The same players often complain about the meta, or specific weapons being unbalanced...when general opinion is often that they're just poor players.

I'm not saying that all solo players suck and thus should have their opinion discounted...but I am saying that some of the loudest voices complaining about groups rolling them are often found to be complaining about other issues that are just as equally NOT the problem.

High ELO, incredibly good solo pilots are welcome to correct me and tell me that "Yeah, premades are killing this game" and I'll probably weight their opinion as heavier, since I acknowledge that they actually know what they're doing in this game.

It's the same reason why I ignore almost every post in the "LRM Flooding, New FOTM"-style threads...the people creating them are hopelessly bad at this game because they don't understand how to play it. Why the hell would I give their opinions on balance and game design any credence?

OK, well I see where you are going but I am not sure if I agree with you.

What you seem to be saying is that when PGI who have all the "data" and know what they are talking about say 84% of player activity is Solo Drops that you would place higher emphasis on that statement when weighing up your own view as opposed to a mulitude of people saying "that ain't so and here is why" who have no actual data and are filling in blanks with best guesses.

So we kinda disagree on that.

[Joseph Mallan]

Davers, on 01 May 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

However, you are also a self proclaimed masochist Paladin.

There is a difference between Me and a Masochist. I still want to hurt you more than you hurt me!

[AlmightyAeng]

Craig Steele, on 01 May 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

OK, well I see where you are going but I am not sure if I agree with you.

What you seem to be saying is that when PGI who have all the "data" and know what they are talking about say 84% of player activity is Solo Drops that you would place higher emphasis on that statement when weighing up your own view as opposed to a mulitude of people saying "that ain't so and here is why" who have no actual data and are filling in blanks with best guesses.

So we kinda disagree on that.

No, I'm saying that I discount the opinion of people that don't know what they're talking about, and, when it comes to this game, I assign that label based on their performance in the game, and the quality of their posts when it comes to other people's feedback on changing their tactics.

If you're continually losing and complaining when other people are succeeding, your feedback on what's "killing the game" is likely less about what's wrong with the game and more about what's wrong with YOU.

I have no idea where you're pulling my opinion on "84% of player activity is solo drops" from. That has, literally, nothing to do with what my last couple posts have been about. At all.

I jumped into this discussion to comment on the opinion of group players that the majority of solo players that are complaining that "premades are OP this game sucks!" aren't losing because of premades, but because they're BAD at this game overall.

If a bunch of solo players that I know to be GOOD players that don't die to the stupidest of reasons start complaining about groups being too powerful, then I'll start listening...

Otherwise it's just a bunch of guys who are 4'6" tall complaining that the hoops in basketball are set too high up.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 01 May 2014 - 06:59 AM.

[Craig Steele]

Ghost Badger, on 01 May 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

No, I'm saying that I discount the opinion of people that don't know what they're talking about, and, when it comes to this game, I assign that label based on their performance in the game, and the quality of their posts when it comes to other people's feedback on changing their tactics.

If you're continually losing and complaining when other people are succeeding, your feedback on what's "killing the game" is likely less about what's wrong with the game and more about what's wrong with YOU.

I have no idea where you're pulling my opinion on "84% of player activity is solo drops" from. That has, literally, nothing to do with what I've been saying.

I jumped into this discussion to comment on the opinion of group players that the majority of solo players that are complaining that "premades are OP this game sucks!" aren't losing because of premades, but because they're BAD at this game overall.

If a bunch of solo players that I know to be GOOD players that don't die to the stupidest of reasons start complaining about groups being too powerful, then I'll start listening...

Otherwise it's just a bunch of guys who are 4'6" tall complaining that the hoops in basketball are set too high up.

I didn't say it was your opinion, I just used an example that most forum readers would be aware of as a reference point. Here, let me demonstrate.

Ghost Badger, on 01 May 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

PGI are welcome to correct me and tell me that "84% of player activity is solo drops" and I'll probably weight their opinion as heavier, since I acknowledge that they actually have the numbers and have an interest in building a better know what they're doing in this game.

It's the same reason why I ignore almost every post in the "LRM Flooding, New FOTM"-style threads...the people creating them are hopelessly bad at this game because they don't understand how to play it. Why the hell would I give their opinions on balance and game design any credence?

My Italics.

I don't think it's a case of the "majority" of solo players though. I saw far more Solo players "confessing" (my word) their allegiance on other threads than I see on this one. There are far more "Group" players in this thread smashing Jun than anything.

In any case, I do think you're incorrect to dismiss his concerns out of hand. The fact is that some Groups do indeed organise games to Stomp PUG's and set up external comms and synchronised loadouts to smack them into next week and laugh about it. If Jun has come across a few of them, his concerns are real for him.

Those groups players who do not actually do this type of activity should be just as concerned as Jun about the poor behaviour and supporting accordingly.

[Solahma]

I primarily solo drop, but play with friends as well. Probably about 50/50 ish.

Does that mean I have a biased opinion?

[AlmightyAeng]

Craig Steele, on 01 May 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

I didn't say it was your opinion, I just used an example that most forum readers would be aware of as a reference point. Here, let me demonstrate.



My Italics.

I don't think it's a case of the "majority" of solo players though. I saw far more Solo players "confessing" (my word) their allegiance on other threads than I see on this one. There are far more "Group" players in this thread smashing Jun than anything.

In any case, I do think you're incorrect to dismiss his concerns out of hand. The fact is that some Groups do indeed organise games to Stomp PUG's and set up external comms and synchronised loadouts to smack them into next week and laugh about it. If Jun has come across a few of them, his concerns are real for him.

Those groups players who do not actually do this type of activity should be just as concerned as Jun about the poor behaviour and supporting accordingly.

One, PGI isn't an individual. They have an agenda to protect their investment, and see that it makes money. While this often coincides with 'making a good game' you also have to factor in money they've spent on decisions that didn't pan out, and pandering to what they see as their monetary base. You're also assuming that I believe that PGI has the capacity to correctly that data they supposedly have...considering the choices they have made, I don't. The way in which you tweaked my post is quite possibly the worst example you could have provided me if you wanted to change my mind.

Two, I'm not dismissing the OP out of hand. After reading his posts, responding, and reading his responses, and seeing other threads he's complained in, I've formed the opinion that he's not only wrong, but that his complaints aren't generated from how the game functions, but how he plays the game. That's just my personal opinion...but it's completely within my rights to discount his poorly supported "facts" and consider the opinions he puts forth as ludicrous.

Three, what "poor behavior?" Winning? Believe it or not, this game is about winning. If 4 guys get together and work as a team to beat the other team...that's not poor behavior. That's fantastic behavior. Does any team in the sports world ever feel BAD about beating the other team? No. Not once. Ever. They brought their A-game as provided by the rules, and they prospered.

The fact that the OP thinks there isn't a "level playing field" is certainly a viewpoint I've heard...it's just not one that I agree with, and the OP's posts haven't convinced me. Tough.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 01 May 2014 - 07:12 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Craig Steele, on 01 May 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

OK, well I see where you are going but I am not sure if I agree with you.

What you seem to be saying is that when PGI who have all the "data" and know what they are talking about say 84% of player activity is Solo Drops that you would place higher emphasis on that statement when weighing up your own view as opposed to a mulitude of people saying "that ain't so and here is why" who have no actual data and are filling in blanks with best guesses.

So we kinda disagree on that.

If we take PGIs numbers as fact.
84% of the player base is now PUG and the "majority" (>51%) used to be groups... Who's game is being ruined???

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 01 May 2014 - 07:14 AM.

[Ultimax]

Jun Watarase, on 23 April 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Oh and if anyone has tried to get people into the game, i would love to hear if they had a similar experience to my friends. When playing solo of course (getting carried by 3 other players in OP configs doesn't prove anything).

If you drop solo why are you encouraging "friends" to play this game with you?

If they drop solo, why would they continue to play this game since their friend who got them into it is against grouping with them?


If all of you are looking for a solo player experience, there are a multitude of games providing a significantly better option than this one does - because this game is focused on multiplayer gaming.

[Craig Steele]

Ghost Badger, on 01 May 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

One, PGI isn't an individual. They have an agenda to protect their investment, and see that it makes money. While this often coincides with 'making a good game' you also have to factor in money they've spent on decisions that didn't pan out, and pandering to what they see as their monetary base. You're also assuming that I believe that PGI has the capacity to correctly that data they supposedly have...considering the choices they have made, I don't. The way in which you tweaked my post is quite possibly the worst example you could have provided me if you wanted to change my mind.

Two, I'm not dismissing the OP out of hand. After reading his posts, responding, and reading his responses, and seeing other threads he's complained in, I've formed the opinion that he's not only wrong, but that his complaints aren't generated from how the game functions, but how he plays the game. That's just my personal opinion...but it's completely within my rights to discount his poorly supported "facts" and consider the opinions he puts forth as ludicrous.

Three, what "poor behavior?" Winning? Believe it or not, this game is about winning. If 4 guys get together and work as a team to beat the other team...that's not poor behavior. That's fantastic behavior. Does any team in the sports world ever feel BAD about beating the other team? No. Not once. Ever. They brought their A-game as provided by the rules, and they prospered.

The fact that the OP thinks there isn't a "level playing field" is certainly a viewpoint I've heard...it's just not one that I agree with, and the OP's posts haven't convinced me. Tough.

Oh sorry, when you quoted me I thought you were referncing to my past posts about Synch Dropping.

Carry on then.

Joseph Mallan, on 01 May 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

If we take PGIs numbers as fact.
84% of the player base is now PUG and the "majority" (>51%) used to be groups... Who's game is being ruined???

So firstly, PUG = Pick Up Group, not "Solo" players (the 84% depending on your POV), but I suspect this is just a terminology thing.

I wasn't making an argument the numbers were correct (see my post) just that it is an example which most forum users have common ground.

[NeonKnight]

Davers, on 01 May 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

I'm glad you are here. Maybe you can explain to Jun how premades have to fight against pugs. You make very eloquent arguments.

What's the Point? Unless the argument/post is in HIS favor, I am certain all he would see is the following:

Blah, blaa, blah, blah, PREMADES EVIL BABY KILLERS, blah blah blah PUGS GET ROFL STOMPED blah blah blah YOU ARE A GOD JUN!

[Craig Steele]

Ultimatum X, on 01 May 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

If you drop solo why are you encouraging "friends" to play this game with you?

If they drop solo, why would they continue to play this game since their friend who got them into it is against grouping with them?


If all of you are looking for a solo player experience, there are a multitude of games providing a significantly better option than this one does - because this game is focused on multiplayer gaming.

Apparently not?

Joseph Mallan, on 01 May 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

If we take PGIs numbers as fact.
84% of the player base is now PUG and the "majority" (>51%) used to be groups... Who's game is being ruined???

NeonKnight, on 01 May 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

What's the Point? Unless the argument/post is in HIS favor, I am certain all he would see is the following:

Blah, blaa, blah, blah, PREMADES EVIL BABY KILLERS, blah blah blah PUGS GET ROFL STOMPED blah blah blah YOU ARE A GOD JUN!

Wait, are you saying that I should only make a post about something I personally endorse?

Wow, I am so used to people telling me what my opinion is (like the subsequent ranting you highlight in bold) that this news is refreshing.

[NeonKnight]

Solahma, on 01 May 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

I primarily solo drop, but play with friends as well. Probably about 50/50 ish.

Does that mean I have a biased opinion?

Depends....Do you Support Jun?

You Opinion is GOLD!

Do you support Team Play and tactics? Welcome to the Nun-Killing, Baby Eating Side

[AlmightyAeng]

Craig Steele, on 01 May 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

Oh sorry, when you quoted me I thought you were referncing to my past posts about Synch Dropping.

Carry on then.

The eternal problem of the 'threadnaught' lol

[Solahma]

I feel like a horrible, nun-killing, baby eating ******* when I'm in a 4-man of mediums with SRMs, MLas, JJ, ****'em all, Meta OP bs
#nofunallowed™

Edited by Solahma, 01 May 2014 - 07:33 AM.