517 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

400 damage? Is that all? Way It sounded Id thought I'd be farming 1,400-2,000 damage! Stupid Enemy!

400 damage alpha--doesn't that sound OP at all? Even my best alpha boat 3F in its days had 70-90 alpha--then its heat is in the red. Arty on the other hand has no heat, no weight.

Hell, Arty is way better damage dealing consumable than Coolshot 9X9 could ever dream to become. Even my direct fire mechs are now using Arty instead of Coolshot because I kill faster and get more points with strikes. There lies the balance problem.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

400 damage alpha--doesn't that sound OP at all?

The conversation isn't worth it. Joe is a different beast in his view points. It's not worth it.

Unlike Mystere, he doesn't try to pretend it's not what it is, he just has a way different view of the game.

[CMetz]

The FLD meta is a myth enhanced by those who perpetuate it. The hard counters for it are speed and alternative tactics. Enemies can be systematically picked apart by mechs designed to soften at range and finish up close. Meta builds are one trick ponies designed for a peek and snipe style. Speed can overcome that. Am I saying I do not run PPC's or AC5's on my builds? I do on some of them. I actually prefer an AC10 or a lb10x to an AC5, though. Nothing is more satisfying than watching a pack of mediums rip apart meta builds at close range.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

400 damage alpha--doesn't that sound OP at all? Even my best alpha boat 3F in its days had 70-90 alpha--then its heat is in the red. Arty on the other hand has no heat, no weight.

Hell, Arty is way better damage dealing consumable than Coolshot 9X9 could ever dream to become. Even my direct fire mechs are now using Arty instead of Coolshot because I kill faster and get more points with strikes. There lies the balance problem.

Not for Artillery.

2 Arty strikes back to back during Tbolt weekend... I finished the match... Is that the OP I keep reading about?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 28 April 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[El Bandito]

CMetz, on 28 April 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

The FLD meta is a myth enhanced by those who perpetuate it. The hard counters for it are speed and alternative tactics. Enemies can be systematically picked apart by mechs designed to soften at range and finish up close. Meta builds are one trick ponies designed for a peek and snipe style. Speed can overcome that. Am I saying I do not run PPC's or AC5's on my builds? I do on some of them. I actually prefer an AC10 or a lb10x to an AC5, though. Nothing is more satisfying than watching a pack of mediums rip apart meta builds at close range.

In pugs, anything goes. In a more serious matches, it is the PPC+AC all the way, with a dash of MLs. 12 men fights--what MWO's end game is supposed to become--is dominated by long range DF builds.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

I think you need to take a chill pill, bro. No need to be so defensive, as I never mentioned you in that post.

The word "Defensive" was the last thing on my mind. And so no chilling required.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

Not for Artillery.

There it goes again. That same old "because it is artillery, it must be overpowered" argument. Here I am trying to convince people that it is not balanced that a measly consumable to have the power to turn the tide of the fight, to cause as much damage as most player's total damage for the match, and is crowding all other modules out (including the coolshot 9x9 which costs the same), and the best argument people say as counter is "Cause its artillery, duh!".

Balance and variety is what makes games fun. And in MWO that is lacking, some part due to the strikes.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2014 - 07:57 AM.

[Mystere]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 28 April 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

The conversation isn't worth it. Joe is a different beast in his view points. It's not worth it.

Unlike Mystere, he doesn't try to pretend it's not what it is, he just has a way different view of the game.

Actually, I just take -- and expect -- artillery for what it is: ARTILLERY!

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

There it goes again. That same old "artillery must be overpowered" argument. Here I am trying to convince people that it is not balanced that a measly consumable has the power to turn the tide of the fight, causes as much damage as most player's total damage for the match, and is crowding all other modules out (including the coolshot 9x9 which costs the same), and the best argument people say as counter is "Cause its artillery, duh!".

Actually its that I have survived Arty more than I have died to it El. I walked away from a double tap of arty I have seen Arty in scores of matches and died twice. That is why I say Arty doesn't need nerfed. And yes Arty is supposed to be the King of the battlefield.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

400 damage alpha--doesn't that sound OP at all?

That 400 is only possible if used on a cluster that decided not to, or found itself unable to, watch out for artillery. So that damage potential is situational.

[Bishop Steiner]

MoonUnitBeta, on 28 April 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

Whats with all this emphasis on AC/40's? lol There's so many weapons combinations that also get headshots too. You guys keep brining up the AC/40 thing like its just as cheap. I was also called a hippocrite for carrying AC/40's which i do not.

Edit: also, who'se to say people who tote ac/40's don't actually aim??? Are they exempt from using their reticle? Can they still miss their shot? Fluke headshots are exclusive to only AC/40 mechs???

just using it as another 40 pt example bro. Most poptart headhsots are not as premeditated as people would lead you to believe either. Just better epeen to claim the meant to do it.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

Actually its that I have survived Arty more than I have died to it El. I walked away from a double tap of arty I have seen Arty in scores of matches and died twice. That is why I say Arty doesn't need nerfed. And yes Arty is supposed to be the King of the battlefield.

MECHS are supposed to be the kings of the battlefield, Jo. That's what the franchise is all about. That's the first thing we read in the novels. The way PGI implemented artillery strike is appalling, to say the least.

For the record, I rarely die to artillery strikes. I die to enemy fire afterwards because my lance is missing half the armor. Just because it does not kill you, does not mean a mere consumable dealing upwards of 400 damage with very small window to react is unbalanced.

Mystere, on 28 April 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

That 400 is only possible if used on a cluster that decided not to, or found itself unable to, watch out for artillery. So that damage potential is situational.

Situational or not, the damage potential is still there. And it makes strikes too good of a module at the expense of others.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2014 - 08:07 AM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 April 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

just using it as another 40 pt example bro. Most poptart headhsots are not as premeditated as people would lead you to believe either. Just better epeen to claim the meant to do it.

Oh okay. Point taken!

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

MECHS are supposed to be the kings of the battlefield Jo. That's what the franchise is all about.

I rarely die to artillery strikes as well. I die to enemyfire right afterwards because my lance is missing half the armor.

I died 38 times to WEAPONS fire and 0 times to Artillery since reboot.

[Kyle Wright]

MischiefSC, on 27 April 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

It's good to have a module that's really useful but end of the day I find the game less fun for its current inclusion. Maybe double the price? It's a must-have and is pretty much spam in most matches. I get the concept - I do. And in general I approve. Currently though it's rare for me to see a match with less than 6 or 7 strikes. Higher end games are often close to 20 between arty and airstrikes.

Maybe three times the cooldown? A small damage nerf? Something. It's nice that I can trade 40k cbills for 200-400 damage guaranteed in a match regardless of how well or how poorly I play but it's just assumed that you'll see five or six in the first half of the match, with peoples second strikes saved for the last part of the match.

I do not find it a significant improvement in my MW:O experience. Much like the need to pack in ACs/PPCs if I want to run a competitive match (which you don't always) you need to pack and deploy one or two strikes in a match. It's just a given.

Which removes options and depth of play, not adds it. I'd rather it be valuable in the same way UAVs are valuable - in set situations and occasionally.

How about you stop running your chubby assault mechs, standing in one spot for to long, stop clumping up wit 6 other knuckleheads, or use some situation awareness. I'm sorry if this offends you but the same goes with LRMs as do arty and air, learn to either use, cover, stay mobile (use faster mechs), or if you are a assault be aware of your surrounding more. As a Medium pilot and a heavy support mech pilot, im not gonna sit there and trade fire with 5 guys that are clumped together, instead im gonna arty or airstrike you to clear you guys out so I can move on about my day. In the modern battlefield, most commanders will air strike or bombard positions pretty good before assaulting it so learn to deal.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

I died 38 times to WEAPONS fire and 0 times to Artillery since reboot.

And it never occurred to you that one of the reasons you died to weapons is because the strikes had stripped you of your armor? Artillery are rarely finishers, since they are used almost at first contact. However, they can make a match lopsided easily, even in one successful strike gets in.

You know what, I'll stop posting in this thread. Obviously people feel mere semantics are more important than game balance, in this supposedly competitive game.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2014 - 08:16 AM.

[Mystere]

I forgot to mention ...

Adiuvo, on 27 April 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

I don't care about what real life is like, I care about game balance.

It's not about real life. It's about what ARTILLERY is!

Edited by Mystere, 28 April 2014 - 08:10 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

And it never occurred to you that one of the reason you died to weapons is because the strikes had stripped you of your armor?

3 Strikes that hit me in 48 games... I am sorry we have to disagree El, but I do not see the terror weapon I keep reading about.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

3 Strikes that hit me in 48 games... I am sorry we have to disagree El, but I do not see the terror weapon I keep reading about.

Pug matches are not a good measure of balance Jo. Just my leaving word.

Come the CW and I might hear you sing a different tune.

Bottom line is, I am arguing that for a mere module, it is too good in comparison to all others.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2014 - 08:15 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 28 April 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

Pug matches are not a good measure of balance Jo. Just my leaving word.

Come the CW and I might hear you sing a different tune.

I doubt it, but anything is possible!