517 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 01 May 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

So you are saying AC/10's, AC/5's, erLL, erPPC, PPC's and ML's don't requires much if any skill to use against you then?

Actually I said I die to them and do so way less than the this new "Arty Boogey-man" that has been cooked up. Want to NERF Arty with a CC, fine. Add all the other things that "MIGHT" eventually, kill your machine as well.

[Mister Blastman]

Almond Brown, on 01 May 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Silly argument. I would wager both sides have Lasers and auto-cannons too right? Word is both of those can WIN games (with relative ease) as well.

If you do NOT have Arty/Airstrike in 12s and your opponent DOES, you are playing at an EXTREME disadvantage. The enemy can dictate your actions.

How?

Say you are bunkered up. So are they. They can blast you into smitherines from indirect fire all while you can do nothing in return. They can force you to move--and move on them... and focus all their firepower on your advance.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 01 May 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

So you are saying AC/10's, AC/5's, erLL, erPPC, PPC's and ML's don't requires much if any skill to use against you then?

He might not be saying that... but you know I have.

Mister Blastman, on 01 May 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

If you do NOT have Arty/Airstrike in 12s and your opponent DOES, you are playing at an EXTREME disadvantage. The enemy can dictate your actions.

How?

Say you are bunkered up. So are they. They can blast you into smitherines from indirect fire all while you can do nothing in return. They can force you to move--and move on them... and focus all their firepower on your advance.

Sounds like the way one should fight a battle.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Almond Brown, on 01 May 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Actually I said I die to them and do so way less than the this new "Arty Boogey-man" that has been cooked up. Want to NERF Arty with a CC, fine. Add all the other things that "MIGHT" eventually, kill your machine as well.

It's not simply about "killing you".

It's about Strikes in relation to other modules in the game, as well as actual weapons.

You are the one making it about them "killing you"

Simple question, assuming you can take 3 modules. Which 3 do you take if your winning a match won you 1 million dollars?

[Almond Brown]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 01 May 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Just quoting as you continue to basically say that it takes no skill to play this game at all by making these comparisons.

Not at all. You continue to say how ARTY is a death blow with every button push and that is bs and if you play at all, you would know that.

Trying to twist words is a sure sign of a "last resort" of a lost cause dude. Just NERF everything and be done already ffs.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Almond Brown, on 01 May 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

Not at all. You continue to say how ARTY is a death blow with every button push and that is bs and if you play at all, you would know that.

Trying to twist words is a sure sign of a "last resort" of a lost cause dude. Just NERF everything and be done already ffs.

Where did I say it was a death blow with every button push? Please find that quote.

I'm not twisting words, you are being hyperbolic.

Almond Brown, on 01 May 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

Just NERF everything and be done already ffs.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 01 May 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 May 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

He might not be saying that... but you know I have.

Sounds like the way one should fight a battle.

It is. And it is why everyone in 12s uses Arty/Airstrike nonstop.

Almond, it seems, on the other hand, to think that you can overcome not using Arty/Airstrike through solid weapons implementation. He's completely overlooking tactics and strategy, however.

[Almond Brown]

Mister Blastman, on 01 May 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

If you do NOT have Arty/Airstrike in 12s and your opponent DOES, you are playing at an EXTREME disadvantage. The enemy can dictate your actions.

How?

Say you are bunkered up. So are they. They can blast you into smitherines from indirect fire all while you can do nothing in return. They can force you to move--and move on them... and focus all their firepower on your advance.

So are you saying that some 12 mans do not bring any Arty? Really? I have read, just in this one thread, repeatedly recounting of how EVERY 2 x 12 man is nothing more than BS Arty fest and that is why they NERF Cry? Are you saying that those who say that are NOT actually telling it like it is, or rather they might simply be over exercising their rather vivid imaginations for dramatic effect?

It can't be BOTH...

[Mystere]

So the so-called "elite" "top level" "high Elo" "competitive" types are allegedly making full use of artillery and air strikes. What's the problem then? It looks like they are using the tools made available to them, and quite effectively too I assume.

Edited by Mystere, 01 May 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Mister Blastman, on 01 May 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

It is. And it is why everyone in 12s uses Arty/Airstrike nonstop.

Almond, it seems, on the other hand, to think that you can overcome not using Arty/Airstrike through solid weapons implementation. He's completely overlooking tactics and strategy, however.

Not at all. It is obvious that more Mechs die to "everything else" pointed their way, than they do to Arty/Air.

To think, or say otherwise is simply disingenuous, but that would not be out of the norm around here. As you have proved yet again.

Edited by Almond Brown, 01 May 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Almond Brown, on 01 May 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

So are you saying that some 12 mans do not bring any Arty? Really? I have read, just in this one thread, repeatedly recounting of how EVERY 2 x 12 man is nothing more than BS Arty fest and that is why they NERF Cry? Are you saying that those who say that are NOT actually telling it like it is, or rather they might simply be over exercising their rather vivid imaginations for dramatic effect?

It can't be BOTH...

Pretty sure he said that if you DON'T take arty, that you are at a disadvantage.

It's pretty rare when I am dropping against serious teams, that I'm not seeing a lot of Arty getting throw around.

I'm sure it happens, but push comes to shove if you want to win you are packing Strikes.

Like I asked Almond, you get 1 million dollars to win a match. Which modules are you taking?

[Joseph Mallan]

Mister Blastman, on 01 May 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

It is. And it is why everyone in 12s uses Arty/Airstrike nonstop.

Almond, it seems, on the other hand, to think that you can overcome not using Arty/Airstrike through solid weapons implementation. He's completely overlooking tactics and strategy, however.

He may be of the opinion that within the game there may be a way to do it, and I hope he keeps trying and someday finds that golden bee-bee that works.

[Mister Blastman]

Almond Brown, on 01 May 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

So are you saying that some 12 mans do not bring any Arty? Really? I have read, just in this one thread, repeatedly recounting of how EVERY 2 x 12 man is nothing more than BS Arty fest and that is why they NERF Cry? Are you saying that those who say that are NOT actually telling it like it is, or rather they might simply be over exercising their rather vivid imaginations for dramatic effect?

It can't be BOTH...

Believe it or not, in the Marik Civil War league, there are planets we are restricted from bringing Arty/Airstrike on. There are also worlds where Jump-Jets aren't allowed, or PPCs, or Autocannons!

When we don't have arty/airstrike allowed, it makes for refreshing battles.

Read again what I said to you before. There are plenty of reasons to take Arty/Airstrike in a public match--there are zero reasons to NOT take it.

I think what people are upset about is how frequently it can be used. Tactically speaking, it opens up interesting possibilities. I like these possibilities. What I don't like is how quickly it can be used and how devastating it can be due to not only the damage it outputs, but the tactical decisions it forces onto the teams that are getting shelled or bombarded by it if they choose not to bring it.

As such, it is a requirement to have on your 'mechs if you want to win consistently in public matches. That's a broken game mechanic.

Almond Brown, on 01 May 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Not at all. It is obvious that more Mechs die to "everything else" pointed their way, than they do to Arty/Air.

To think, or say otherwise is simply disingenuous, but that would not be out of the norm around here. As you have proved yet again.

They die to other weapons because of the tactical decisions it forces upon those who are being bombarded. Is reading comprehension hard for you? I haven't been disingenuous at all.

I'm the frankest person you'll ever meet, probably--to a fault.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mister Blastman, on 01 May 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Believe it or not, in the Marik Civil War league, there are planets we are restricted from bringing Arty/Airstrike on. There are also worlds where Jump-Jets aren't allowed, or PPCs, or Autocannons!

When we don't have arty/airstrike allowed, it makes for refreshing battles.

Read again what I said to you before. There are plenty of reasons to take Arty/Airstrike in a public match--there are zero reasons to NOT take it.

I think what people are upset about is how frequently it can be used. Tactically speaking, it opens up interesting possibilities. I like these possibilities. What I don't like is how quickly it can be used and how devastating it can be due to not only the damage it outputs, but the tactical decisions it forces onto the teams that are getting shelled or bombarded by it if they choose not to bring it.

As such, it is a requirement to have on your 'mechs if you want to win consistently in public matches. That's a broken game mechanic.

Alula Austrailis? I broke the leg on my Stone Rhino due to some sort of Micro burst winds on the world!

[Almond Brown]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 01 May 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Pretty sure he said that if you DON'T take arty, that you are at a disadvantage.

It's pretty rare when I am dropping against serious teams, that I'm not seeing a lot of Arty getting throw around.

I'm sure it happens, but push comes to shove if you want to win you are packing Strikes.

Like I asked Almond, you get 1 million dollars to win a match. Which modules are you taking?

Again. The argument is not "if" one side takes them and the other doesn't. If you enter a CAGE Match fight, and then decide after it starts, you should have brought your brass knuckles and now want out, tough ***.

As has been noted, the argument seems to stem mostly around 12 mans. If both side have access, then those who do not avail themselves of ALL the tools, will likely loss. Why would that ever be the games fault?

As to that question you ask. Everything that I can that will produce the most damage as fast as possible so I might survive to the end. How does Air and Arty differ in that regard, to almost any other damage based unit I add?

Edited by Almond Brown, 01 May 2014 - 10:17 AM.

[Ultimax]

I'm not worried about the damage it deals, or the area denial.

My concern is the opportunity cost.

I feel the opportunity cost is too low for this module.


I'd rather it was more restricted in its use (not it's damage), where it becomes more of a weighted choice and not such a simple choice.

[Mister Blastman]

Ultimatum X, on 01 May 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

I'm not worried about the damage it deals, or the area denial.

My concern is the opportunity cost.

I feel the opportunity cost is too low for this module.


I'd rather it was more restricted in its use (not it's damage), where it becomes more of a weighted choice and not such a simple choice.

^^^ This.

[Fut]

Ultimatum X, on 01 May 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

I'm not worried about the damage it deals, or the area denial.

My concern is the opportunity cost.

I feel the opportunity cost is too low for this module.


I'd rather it was more restricted in its use (not it's damage), where it becomes more of a weighted choice and not such a simple choice.

I personally think that the other modules are more useful than the Strikes, so that is the choice people must make.
"Easy damage" or something that will improve performance over all.

Edited by Fut, 01 May 2014 - 10:24 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Mister Blastman, on 01 May 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

Believe it or not, in the Marik Civil War league, there are planets we are restricted from bringing Arty/Airstrike on. There are also worlds where Jump-Jets aren't allowed, or PPCs, or Autocannons!

When we don't have arty/airstrike allowed, it makes for refreshing battles.

Read again what I said to you before. There are plenty of reasons to take Arty/Airstrike in a public match--there are zero reasons to NOT take it.

I think what people are upset about is how frequently it can be used. Tactically speaking, it opens up interesting possibilities. I like these possibilities. What I don't like is how quickly it can be used and how devastating it can be due to not only the damage it outputs, but the tactical decisions it forces onto the teams that are getting shelled or bombarded by it if they choose not to bring it.

As such, it is a requirement to have on your 'mechs if you want to win consistently in public matches. That's a broken game mechanic.

They die to other weapons because of the tactical decisions it forces upon those who are being bombarded. Is reading comprehension hard for you? I haven't been disingenuous at all.

I'm the frankest person you'll ever meet, probably--to a fault.

Hang on. So you now are equating dying in MWO directly to how players react to the occasional Arty drop? Really? You do know the drop circle is only 100m across right and in that (whatever square footage, only ten shells land and splash is a reduced radius outwards?

What are you doing during a drop, running around in that circle as fast as possible to absorb as much damage as possible? Standing still, or moving slightly ahead when the shells fall is the best way, other than total avoidance, to limit the damage taken.

If a player "panics" and run out into the open from a area of protection, then they deserve the added injury added to their personally generated insult.

OK, maybe disingenuous was a bad choice. How about quite unyielding to the ideas and thoughts of others. Your been quite adament

[Joseph Mallan]

Fut, on 01 May 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

I personally think that the other modules are more useful than the Strikes, so that is the choice people must make.
"Easy damage" or something that will improve performance over all.

Sensor range and Quick ID for the win.