342 replies to this topic

[Sigilum Sanctum]

I treat them as can openers. It works great on mechs like the stalker and atlas. Come up behind them and burn all their armor over a large area and saturate them in laser fire.

I like getting in close with my jager. If you use the LB10x over 300 meters youre either not playing them correctly or youre just trying to be a nuisance. Theyre not terrible but theyre definitely a niche weapon.

[Daekar]

It has been my experience that in the higher Elo levels, especially in unlimited games, the LBX would be a poor choice because so much combat takes place at longer ranges.

In a 3/3/3/3 environment, even at high Elo, this might be a bit different, but at any rate, at lower Elo the diversity of mech weights and loadouts means that brawling is MUCH more likely, and that closure to the effective range for the LBX is therefore more likely.

I would never take a pair of LBXs to a metahumping drop, but in a game with more chaos and varied loadouts it's not bad. Would love to see either a RoF increase or damage increase, but either way, it's usable if you're just a lowly pug out to have fun - ironically, it's actually more effective in that environment than in the meta environment.

[AntharPrime]

MischiefSC, on 29 April 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

It's actually not bad. Not bad at all. Better than a standard AC10. Bishop Steiner proposed running a 2xLB10X, 4xMG and 2xML Jag DD for kicks as a troll build.

Shockingly, it kicks ass. Not a little; a lot. Performing better than AC40 on the same build.

NEVER, never talk about how good a weapon is. It is now guaranteed to receive a nerf.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Daekar, on 30 April 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

It has been my experience that in the higher Elo levels, especially in unlimited games, the LBX would be a poor choice because so much combat takes place at longer ranges.

In a 3/3/3/3 environment, even at high Elo, this might be a bit different, but at any rate, at lower Elo the diversity of mech weights and loadouts means that brawling is MUCH more likely, and that closure to the effective range for the LBX is therefore more likely.

I would never take a pair of LBXs to a metahumping drop, but in a game with more chaos and varied loadouts it's not bad. Would love to see either a RoF increase or damage increase, but either way, it's usable if you're just a lowly pug out to have fun - ironically, it's actually more effective in that environment than in the meta environment.

This is funny because I consdier myself a pug out to have fun. I dont know the meta or any meta builds. I just joined a merc group and we work really well together and have good target call outs, probably why we were doing so well last night.

I opt for a heavy ROF increase and MAYBE a slight damage increase. Personally, the amount of fun I have is directly proportional to how difficult the situation is. Obviously finding the right situation to use the LB10X is hard considering all the more "effecient" weapons and combinations out there.

I dont have fun standing at range just pecking people to death with AC5s, I dont have fun sitting on my ass spamming LRMs at extreme range. I want to get in peoples faces and throw interesting weapon combinations at them. The LB10X and even 2 AC20s do that for me.

This is probably why im so terrible (besides the fact I only started playing 2 and 1/2 months ago) but I honestly dont care.

[Dawnstealer]

If you live past the mid-way point in a match, it's real nasty. When people have nasty, gaping wounds in their mech, LB10s clean up. Early in the game, it's not so useful - you just turn someone yellow all over and obviously, kind of useless at range.

Damage is also a bit of a bad stat to track: you're more likely to hit with an LB10, obviously, because it's a shotgun, but that damage won't be pinpoint like an AC10 would. Kills? Probably would be the other end of the spectrum: you're more likely to get a crit and kill an enemy with the LB10 when it does strike a vulnerable point.

It's a useful weapon and has it's place, but drawing a 1:1 comparison to a pin-point weapon probably isn't valid.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 30 April 2014 - 10:18 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

and, you are wrong. Jagers run them just fine.

I agree they do run them "fine". But the fact remains that dual AC10s are outright better.

Quote

LB10s clean up.

So do AC10s if you can aim. The only advantage of LB10s is that you dont have to aim them as accurately. But for someone who has practiced aim the AC10 is ALWAYS better. Being able to put damage exactly where you want it to go is much better than spreading it around.

AC10 is better at punching armor, better at critting items, better at destroying internal structure, and its better at medium range. There is simply no comparison.

Edited by Khobai, 30 April 2014 - 10:25 AM.

[Phromethius]

it's like reason is completely ignored in this thread and opinion abounds in all its subjective glory! even the fact callers and the fringes don't see the point anymore.

But anyways...Well like stated in almost all LBX threads, continue to underestimate it's effectiveness and I will continue to actually enjoy disrupting your Meta Game. I have fun in my lbx mech builds how about you all?

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 30 April 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

I don't even fear the tri-LBX on the Ilya. It's just bad.

When you have to solely rely on RNG to make sure a particular spot you are aiming at gets hit, you're asking to handicap yourself.

By comparison, I got another airstrike headshot kill w/o even trying (and collecting the 10 headshot reward), while struggling with LBX to "hit where I want it to hit'.

believe what you will. I don't intend to waste anymore time or breath on the matter. I will just keep wasting the OpFor with my completely useless weaponry. Because I'm just magic like that.

[Khobai]

Quote

But anyways...Well like stated in almost all LBX threads, continue to underestimate it's effectiveness and I will continue to actually enjoy disrupting your Meta Game. I have fun in my lbx mech builds how about you all?

Not underestimating its effectiveness at all. But most of the time when LB10Xs are taken its as a handicap rather than being an optimized build. I already pointed out one of the few situations where the LB10X is better than the AC10: on an Atlas. Because the Atlas cant use dual AC10s. There are situations where the LB10X is one of the best options. But on a Jager-DD or Ilya the LB10X is NEVER the best option. People who use LB10Xs on those mechs are just gimping their builds plain and simple.

Edited by Khobai, 30 April 2014 - 10:34 AM.

[N a p e s]

As the most expensive of all weapons in the game the LB should be a bit better. I'm already a fan because its a giant mech shotgun and that makes it fun however, a stat buff to refire rate and damage would be pretty great. It might actually make people afraid of this weapon.

If we "normalized" the weapon with the other ACs I believe the weapon's firing mechanics could actually justify giving this weapon a DPS of between 5.5. to 6 instead of the current 4. I'd propose 13 damage (1.3 per pellet) with a cooldown of 2.25 seconds. This gives it a minimal refire boost versus the AC10 and augmented overall damage but its spread out... 1.25 damage per pellet could also be considered and that would put its DPS at 5.55.

[Bishop Steiner]

Phromethius, on 30 April 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

it's like reason is completely ignored in this thread and opinion abounds in all its subjective glory! even the fact callers and the fringes don't see the point anymore.

But anyways...Well like stated in almost all LBX threads, continue to underestimate it's effectiveness and I will continue to actually enjoy disrupting your Meta Game. I have fun in my lbx mech builds how about you all?

Lol, yup. It's like beating your head into a brick wall while listening to a broken record. That's OK, though, they can continue to run their 3 "optimized" chassis and 2 "optimized" weapons while playing pogostick, and I'll continue to have fun and kicking butt and taking names with my nerf guns and water pistols.

I gotta say, living in their world must be a very boring place.

Napes339, on 30 April 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

As the most expensive of all weapons in the game the LB should be a bit better. I'm already a fan because its a giant mech shotgun and that makes it fun however, a stat buff to refire rate and damage would be pretty great. It might actually make people afraid of this weapon.

I do agree, that for it's effectiveness, it IS overpriced as a niche weapon.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 30 April 2014 - 10:36 AM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Khobai, on 30 April 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Not underestimating its effectiveness at all. But most of the time when LB10Xs are taken its as a handicap rather than being an optimized build. I already pointed out one of the few situations where the LB10X is better than the AC10: on an Atlas. Because the Atlas cant use dual AC10s. There are situations where the LB10X is one of the best options. But on a Jager-DD or Ilya the LB10X is NEVER the best option. People who use LB10Xs on those mechs are just gimping their builds plain and simple.

My argument on the 2xLBX10 Atlas's is this, why not take an AC20 and 5+ extra tons? I've never felt it was worth it on such a mech, when speed is low and dependance on being point blank to deal the most damage. There's a reason the old "go-to" Atlas Brawler builds were always triple SRM+Ac20 and lasers. Double LBX is too heavy compared to an AC20


Now say LBX's did 1.4 damage a pop, then holy shit an LBX atlas would be good at brawling things down...

Edited by mwhighlander, 30 April 2014 - 10:37 AM.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 April 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Lol, yup. It's like beating your head into a brick wall while listening to a broken record. That's OK, though, they can continue to run their 3 "optimized" chassis and 2 "optimized" weapons while playing pogostick, and I'll continue to have fun and kicking butt and taking names with my nerf guns and water pistols.

I gotta say, living in their world must be a very boring place.



I do agree, that for it's effectiveness, it IS overpriced as a niche weapon.

I love you Bishop lmao.

[MischiefSC]

Roland, on 30 April 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

Again, I think you are imagining some kind of insult where there was none.
I'm just pointing out the facts.. It's gauss rifle damage, that fires every 1.66 seconds. Being close to the guy who's shooting you with 15 damage every one and a half seconds doesn't make it hurt less.

I love me some trip-5. It's got a higher DPS than 2xLB10X - it's also heavier and requires more spots, so that makes sense.

All I'm looking at is viability as a brawling weapon of the LB10X vs either 2xAC10, SRMs or other brawling setup. For the tonnage, slots and crits, how are they stacking.

Currently I'd go with 'they're better than they were'. Far more reliable.

They're also burst-success weapons, much like LRMs in that regard, but most brawling weapons are. As a brawling weapon though I'm starting to build the opinion that if you can pack 2xLB10Xs, they're 'peak' for brawling. I'll take them over my trip-5 on this Banshee for the face-humping, no question. No question at all.

They are exceptional at denying people that up close. I've toed to toed with several Banshees with the 3x5 or 2/5,2x2 setup and without exception have demolished them. 2.5 is a fraction of a second longer than it takes me to swing and return - I can keep my full DPS and still stuff those fat arms in the way of damage. The moment I peel through some armor to something soft, it's gone.

Where I suffer is at range. I've got lasers to take up some of that slack but at range I'm not pulling 95 tons. Point blank though....

Yeah, it's what SRMs should be.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 April 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

believe what you will. I don't intend to waste anymore time or breath on the matter. I will just keep wasting the OpFor with my completely useless weaponry. Because I'm just magic like that.

Useless is not the word I would use. However, every single time I fire it on armored targets, it's a lost cause, as I'm treating it like MGs as it is. The problem when I need to finish off the CT or even side torso of a mech, I am reminded how much better an AC10 does it better. Every single time "I know what I'm shooting with" I effectively have to put in twice the effort just for the RNG to work in my favor. It's almost the reverse case for UAC5s over the AC5s at times. I have to put in half as much effort to get the UAC5 to work in my favor, than an AC5 (well, half is an exaggeration, as the AC5's timing I've gotten down to a science because of the audio cues).

In sum, LBX10 is already worse than 2 ASRM4s. I love SRMs. I cannot love LBX10 in its current state.

Edited by Deathlike, 30 April 2014 - 10:43 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 30 April 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

Useless is not the word I would use. However, every single time I fire it on armored targets, it's a lost cause, as I'm treating it like MGs as it is. The problem when I need to finish off the CT or even side torso of a mech, I am reminded how much better an AC10 does it better. Every single time "I know what I'm shooting with" I effectively have to put in twice the effort just for the RNG to work in my favor. It's almost the reverse case for UAC5s over the AC5s at times. I have to put in half as much effort to get the UAC5 to work in my favor, than an AC5 (well, half is an exaggeration, as the AC5's timing I've gotten down to a science because of the audio cues).

Bishop Steiner, on 30 April 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

believe what you will. I don't intend to waste anymore time or breath on the matter. I will just keep wasting the OpFor with my completely useless weaponry. Because I'm just magic like that.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 April 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

Repetition of quotes

I'm confident in saying I die more vs LRMs and MGs, than I do vs LBX.

Edited by Deathlike, 30 April 2014 - 10:46 AM.

[ExplodedZombie]

The LB-10X has been great for a while now. Not sure I understand the haters. If you are a really good shot with it, it can be devastating. I love using it on several builds.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 30 April 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

I'm confident in saying I die more vs LRMs and MGs, than I do vs LBX.

Of course. In your enlightened Elo, no one uses them, so it would be rather hard to die to them, wouldn't it.

But down here in the Ghetto Back Alley Elo, with the rest of the scrubs, we fight with shivs, broken bottles, bricks, whatever we can, and you might be shocked by the things that kill you here in the 'Hood. I wish I lived in an Ivory tower so I only had to take precautions against 2 guns.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 30 April 2014 - 10:53 AM.

[Shlkt]

LBX provides modest bonuses vs. an unarmored target. All that extra "critical damage" translates into an 18% damage boost vs. an unarmored target. Better than nothing but not amazing.

Unfortunately the shotgun effect also applies to critical hits; they get spread out over all internals, often resulting in fewer destroyed internals. If the component has just one piece of equipment, like an AC/20, then the LBX can often disable it with just one shot. If there are multiple internals, though, like 2 PPCs or 2 AC/5s then your crits get spread around too much to disable the weapons quickly. MGs are much better for crit-seeking in that case.

If your target happens to have an unarmored Gauss, though, you're in luck Very easy to destroy in a single hit.

Edited by Shlkt, 30 April 2014 - 10:54 AM.