1443 replies to this topic

[Tekadept]

Ghost Badger, on 29 May 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

Sometimes a developer even gives us a play-by-play...as seen here on Reddit.
Oh look, code debugging ASAP.

Dayum thanks for that link. Oooh those deep rooted cryengine bugs are getting squashed left right and centre pending testing from the Global QA team..

Now I don't expect PGI to give that kind of live blow by blow, but a fraction of that sure wouldn't hurt

Edited by Tekadept, 29 May 2014 - 06:28 AM.

[Heffay]

Ghost Badger, on 29 May 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

MWO claims to be released...with a CRAPTON of bugs anyway. When they hit their deadlines, they do so with an enormous amount of annoying bugs that take forever to fix...if they DO fix them...and end up being in a patch months down the line. They communicate once that there are issues and that they'll get to the "soon" and then we hear nothing for a very long time.

SC is in pre-alpha, and has CONSISTENTLY refused to release a bad product. And when they say there are issues, and that they're going to fix them...they do so...quickly. Sometimes a developer even gives us a play-by-play...as seen here on Reddit.
Oh look, code debugging ASAP.

MWO works and is stable (and fantastic gameplay to boot). Star Citizen hasn't even fixed the exact same bugs that we all saw at the DFM review at PAX East, a month earlier. They don't *have* a game they can release. And although they've made great progress, Cryengine is a ***** and we're starting to see why PGI is having so many problems with it.

CIG isn't even TRYING to work on server side authentication. Just a nebulous "we'll deal with limited checking in the future."

Seriously, CIG is running into the exact same issues PGI did. Sure, they explain it a lot better, but let's not pretend they are grizzled Cryengine ninjas that will crap this out in no time.

[ShinVector]

Ghost Badger, on 29 May 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

Heffay, I don't get how you can White Knight so often here, but come down on Star Citizen so hard. At least give them a chance to miss deadlines by months and only communicate their resolution twice a year before you give them the treatment most of us have given PGI.

Hell...if you're feeling super generous, wait and see what the product looks like when they actually claim it's "released" before getting your panties in a twist.

Thus the term.. 'Grey Knight'..

[Heffay]

Ah well, at least we all have MWO to tide us over until CIG figures out their bugs! Should only take another month or two before we get the DFM, but one thing for sure: They will NOT give another release date. I think they've (hopefully) finally learned their lesson.

[ShinVector]

Heffay, on 29 May 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

MWO works and is stable (and fantastic gameplay to boot). Star Citizen hasn't even fixed the exact same bugs that we all saw at the DFM review at PAX East, a month earlier. They don't *have* a game they can release. And although they've made great progress, Cryengine is a ***** and we're starting to see why PGI is having so many problems with it.

CIG isn't even TRYING to work on server side authentication. Just a nebulous "we'll deal with limited checking in the future."

Seriously, CIG is running into the exact same issues PGI did. Sure, they explain it a lot better, but let's not pretend they are grizzled Cryengine ninjas that will crap this out in no time.

Hmmmmm... Same you say ? You must work for both PGi and CIG to know these things...

Come on man... Building a game takes time.... Give CIG a chance to release something before you throw your wet blanket on them... Only then.. You go compare what they have done with what we have with MWO right now... I am betting you can going to be suprised...

Heffay, on 29 May 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

Ah well, at least we all have MWO to tide us over until CIG figures out their bugs! Should only take another month or two before we get the DFM, but one thing for sure: They will NOT give another release date. I think they've (hopefully) finally learned their lesson.

I am going to throw out a date which I won't regret even if I am wrong... first week of June.

[S3dition]

Tekadept, on 29 May 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

Really? in the past It was easier getting a tooth pulled at the dentist then to get information about delays from PGI, let alone them admitting there was a problem. Once you were told of a delay how often did PGI keep people informed? not daily that's for sure . they have a monthly vlog that will end up coming out 6 times a year


Proof will be in the pudding i guess I have bets all those DEEP ROOTED (tee heee) issues will be sorted out before the 3/3/3/3 matchmaker is fixed

Funny, what was PGI late on delivering?

Closed beta? on time.
Open beta? on time.
Full release? on time.
Phoenix package? on time.
Saber package? on time.
All maps? on time.
Clan pack? pending.
UI 2.0? delayed
community warfare? delayed (though technically they never gave a firm launch date)
Most systems nominal. (7 / 9)

What has SC released on time?
Hangar module? on time.
Dogfight Module? delayed.
Half systems nominal (1/2)

Holy cow batman, PGI has delivered more products on time than SC has delivered. SC currently has a whopping 50% delay rate.

Which of these is true:

You can currently pilot a mech in MWO
You can currently pilot a fighter in SC

Yikes.

I'm hoping all the best for SC, I really am. I'm never against having more good games available. But the apologists are loaded with double talk and hypocrisy fit for a political candidate.

[Bilbo]

I was thinking about which I would play tonight. I guess now I know.

[Heffay]

ShinVector, on 29 May 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

I am going to throw out a date which I won't regret even if I am wrong... first week of June.

I really hope you're right!

[DEN_Ninja]

I would like to remind folks that this thread is not for flaming or toxic comments about Star Citizen and MWO. Refrain from "I told you so" comments.

I love MWO.

I love the idea of SC.

I also expect the same delays because these are similar games on the same engine. Bugs and Errors occur during development, get over it and be patient.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 29 May 2014 - 07:15 AM.

[Tekadept]

S3dition, on 29 May 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

*stuff*

LOL ggclose

[Adridos]

• Lag in feedback and update of essential game events resulting in increasingly divergent multiplayer sync.

Yikes. Fully working DFM... by the time I turn 18.

[ShinVector]

S3dition, on 29 May 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

............

Lol.. Dude is putting deadlines on something that expected to be release on 2015 !!!

Edited by ShinVector, 29 May 2014 - 07:44 AM.

[Heffay]

S3dition, on 29 May 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

You can currently pilot a fighter in SC

Technically this is true. You can totally sit in the pilot's seat in the Hangar Module. However, gameplay gets a bit sparse after that.

[DEN_Ninja]

Heffay, on 29 May 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Technically this is true. You can totally sit in the pilot's seat in the Hangar Module. However, gameplay gets a bit sparse after that.

See, I use to be like this. I made jokes about how SC only has a working hangar but I figured that I was being an idiot and criticizing the small things.

It'll come out. When it does it will be compared to current games out there. The biggest competitor for SC in the same genre is Elite Dangerous so let's look at that instead of MWO/SC

[Heffay]

Tichorius Davion, on 29 May 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

See, I use to be like this. I made jokes about how SC only has a working hangar but I figured that I was being an idiot and criticizing the small things.

It'll come out. When it does it will be compared to current games out there. The biggest competitor for SC in the same genre is Elite Dangerous so let's look at that instead of MWO/SC

ED is the real danger for SC. SC had the potential to lead the release cycle with the DFM release today, but now ED is going into Beta tomorrow, and that is what people are going to see first.

Not to mention the hardware requirements for ED are significantly less, so right off the line they have more potential customers who can actually play the game. People looking for a spaceship sim may get hooked on ED and stick to that universe.

I have to admit, I'm *this* close to picking up a premium beta package for ED. I figured that my spaceship needs would have been satiated with the DFM today, but... yeah. Here we are.

[Green Mamba]

Heffay, on 29 May 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

ED is the real danger for SC. SC had the potential to lead the release cycle with the DFM release today, but now ED is going into Beta tomorrow, and that is what people are going to see first.

Not to mention the hardware requirements for ED are significantly less, so right off the line they have more potential customers who can actually play the game. People looking for a spaceship sim may get hooked on ED and stick to that universe.

I have to admit, I'm *this* close to picking up a premium beta package for ED. I figured that my spaceship needs would have been satiated with the DFM today, but... yeah. Here we are.

Of Course the thing is CR has already made his money..The game was fully Funded at 23 Million if I remember Correctly without any Corporate Investors.It looks like SC is going to Double that so competition won't really hurt the game.Only thing would be if CIG pulled a "Bernie Madoff" that would cause me to Rage .I am just Dissappointed at the Delays but still have faith in what SC will become.

I Believe they would have released The DFM back in December if the ED Alpha Footage didn't look so polished..I think now he is just going a Little overboard with the First Impression of the AC due to that..Some of it is well founded though

Edited by Green Mamba, 29 May 2014 - 09:12 AM.

[Adridos]

Heffay, on 29 May 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

ED is the real danger for SC.

Realistically? No.

It would've been a real danger if people haven't showered Roberts with money and withheld their money until the first things were done and only added more once he'd start asking for it again, provided he delivered good, but under the current rules, it's only the other way around. It doesn't matter how good E:D is, even if everyone completely left SC, it would still be a game that had made a crap-ton of money for him and his studio.

It's a lose-lose situation for both sides. Star Citizen will never have any real competition that would force Roberts into delivering all the stuff he's promised (which will not be the case with the real deal, hopefully he'll get at least some 76% of it... that would still be a great game) and Elite:Dangerous will never be fully rewarded for it's efforts, no matter how good it is, since there's only so many space nerds and only so much $46million ($43M for SC and ~$3M for E:D) floating around.

Edited by Adridos, 29 May 2014 - 10:29 AM.

[DEN_Ninja]

Green Mamba, on 29 May 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

Of Course the thing is CR has already made his money..The game was fully Funded at 23 Million if I remember Correctly without any Corporate Investors.It looks like SC is going to Double that so competition won't really hurt the game.Only thing would be if CIG pulled a "Bernie Madoff" that would cause me to Rage .I am just Dissappointed at the Delays but still have faith in what SC will become.

I Believe they would have released The DFM back in December if the ED Alpha Footage didn't look so polished..I think now he is just going a Little overboard with the First Impression of the AC due to that..Some of it is well founded though

I have to admit the first demo was very underwhelming. You could see lots of problems with hit detection and collisions. Standard stuff and i expect it to be fixed but still underwhelming. Good thing it isn't what I want most out of it though. I like the 4x part more than the fighting.

[Bryan Ekman]

After reading CR's post I was not surprised by the delay. They have been hinting at a possible delay for a few weeks now, talking about critical bugs in all of their community shows and posts. I was really looking forward to getting into a ship after 19~months of waiting. All I can say to that - complete sympathy, understanding, and kudos to all those hard working developers - having been there many times before. I'm rooting for yah!

Those go/no-go meetings are so incredibly stressful, you invariably are going to make someone unhappy, whether it's your backers or your publisher (both in our case). Everything is weighed. The impact of a rough build vs taking time to polish is never an easy one. Either way you will probably make someone a little sad panda.

Star Citizen has a long long road ahead of them. I've been a fan since the beginning and a backer since last year. I believe aspects of SC are going to shine, and other aspects are going to be incredibly difficult for CIG to achieve. Building a game and studio from scratch are the two most difficult tasks any developer can attempt. That being said, $45 million buys a lot of development. I would guess their current burn rate is going to be around $1.5-2.0 M per month (200+ people). Time will tell how well this pans out. I'm hopeful!

[Heffay]

Ooh, what's your pilot's name? I'm Markemp in SC!