88 replies to this topic

[maniacos]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 01:50 AM, said:

You know That roles can be easily defined using TS3 I'm sure. The matchmaker only looks at our W/L not Mech loadouts. Why do we want the game to do everything for us anyway. Things like Unit composition is our job to figure out!

What goes to my wish for a public lobby. The MM does everything for us, we are taken and dropped somewhere by some unknown algorithm.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jherek C, on 09 May 2014 - 01:53 AM, said:

What goes to my wish for a public lobby. The MM does everything for us, we are taken and dropped somewhere by some unknown algorithm.

That is our own fault! We used to be able to group up full teams that could figure out who's bringing what and who they are paired up with. But The Whine. Now the Whine is My team doesn't support me, The Team gets it's ass kicked cause of poor team performance. We have Free lobbies. We have TS3... That is how you get a team that acts like one. If as PUGs we refuse to use the obvious winning will be oblivious!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 May 2014 - 01:57 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

a public lobby would be indeed interesting.
"searching LRM boat
"searching Long Range Mech killer
"searching Short Range Mech killer

Although nobody would search - a "modified near stock Atlas"

Haven't you better "role" warfare in WoT - the MM splits "artillery and tank hunters - or was this borked too? - can't remember)

Matches are won or loosed by the better "loadout" synergies of a team. If you have a YLW with a AC 20 - and the rest of the game are long range Poptarter - the 50t of the YLW is dead weight.

If you have some "simple" TAGs - (by player choice - or automatically (Alpha dmg at ranges (short,med,long) and e-warfare and speed) - the MM can make equally made teams.
OK - the LRM 80 Awesome will be a better LRM boat as the Locust - anyhow nothing is perfect.

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 01:57 AM, said:

That is our own fault! We used to be able to group up full teams that could figure out who's bringing what and who they are paired up with. But The Whine. Now the Whine is My team doesn't support me, The Team gets it's ass kicked cause of poor team performance. We have Free lobbies. We have TS3... That is how you get a team that acts like one. If as PUGs we refuse to use the obvious winning will be oblivious!

You can't hardly coordinate with others from all over the world when dopping solo - dropping premade you only have 4 Mechs that fit to each other perfectly - a lance alone hardly win the day. (depends on the players - 2 Superb Light pilots and 2 superb Heavy/assaults can be hard to beat)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 09 May 2014 - 02:01 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Karl Streiger, on 09 May 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

You can't hardly coordinate with others from all over the world when dopping solo - dropping premade you only have 4 Mechs that fit to each other perfectly - a lance alone hardly win the day. (depends on the players - 2 Superb Light pilots and 2 superb Heavy/assaults can be hard to beat)

And thus we cannot complain when our group fights deaf dumb and blind. Seriously, we cannot complain that our group isn't acting like a team if we are not communicating... OR unable to bridge a language barrier.

[maniacos]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 03:13 AM, said:

And thus we cannot complain when our group fights deaf dumb and blind. Seriously, we cannot complain that our group isn't acting like a team if we are not communicating... OR unable to bridge a language barrier.

No one was complaining about that.

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 01:57 AM, said:

That is our own fault! We used to be able to group up full teams that could figure out who's bringing what and who they are paired up with. But The Whine. Now the Whine is My team doesn't support me, The Team gets it's ass kicked cause of poor team performance. We have Free lobbies. We have TS3... That is how you get a team that acts like one. If as PUGs we refuse to use the obvious winning will be oblivious!

I wish I could do that, planning the drop instead of throwing the MM-dice. All I demand is that this game features what's now outsourced to external/thirdparty servers.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jherek C, on 09 May 2014 - 03:15 AM, said:

No one was complaining about that.



I wish I could do that, planning the drop instead of throwing the MM-dice. All I demand is that this game features what's now outsourced to external/thirdparty servers.

Aren't they? I keep reading, "Stop putting me on Teams with losers." "I am a god among mortals. I should not be placed with mere peons!!!" That is how the MM is broke thread are reading. YOU do not deserve to be dropped with someone new or inexperienced. That is some serious sanctimonious garbage!

[Redshift2k5]

MM seems fine to me, pugging last night for an hour... even when I got paired against two 4-mans (including four guys from my own unit) it was still like 7-12. A loss but it didn't feel like a failure on the part of the matchmaker.

[maniacos]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:

Aren't they? I keep reading, "Stop putting me on Teams with losers." "I am a god among mortals. I should not be placed with mere peons!!!" That is how the MM is broke thread are reading. YOU do not deserve to be dropped with someone new or inexperienced. That is some serious sanctimonious garbage!

Show me where I wrote this ITT.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jherek C, on 09 May 2014 - 03:27 AM, said:

Show me where I wrote this ITT.

You might be feeling guilty if you think I meant YOU specific sir. Read the thread, tell me the tone is not there.

Nope I did have one YOU specific where I should have had a General pronoun.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 May 2014 - 03:37 AM.

[maniacos]

There might be some that wrote this, but you directed that accuse in a response to me, while this thread was especially not about bad teams but about flaws in MM, I expressed that early enough.

[Karl Streiger]

Well the problem is the "still not" available tutorial (the game tips are somewhat of "Not" helpfull and even when you look those dozen and dozen of YouTube videos - and you start to play MWO and use those vids as reference you get wiped out.

When ever i see - obviouse "Newbs" (attention - i don't call them noobs) that fire there LRMs at 100m - and don't fire the SRMs or have problems with 2 crosshairs and so much more i feel pity for them.

I think MM is broken because their ELO must be next to mine. With the difference that i have made thousends of drops before ELO was introduced. I had much more knowledge before i run my CN9-AH on Caustic Valley for the first time.
The reason i despise ELO as good criteria for the MM - is that those newbs are forced to play in games with veterans - that may not be elite - but they know the mechs, the weapons and are able to "calculate" if that Mech they shot at has a XL or not

This problem isn't new. I have this problem too...and i already did begun to hit something in MWLL - when i became a founder.

Anyhow - the problem of "no tutorials" is older as the MWO Alpha:
http://mwomercs.com/...post__p__182318
(Look at the date)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 09 May 2014 - 03:44 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jherek C, on 09 May 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

There might be some that wrote this, but you directed that accuse in a response to me, while this thread was especially not about bad teams but about flaws in MM, I expressed that early enough.

No I used your post as the sounding board it was the last one... Also

Quote

All I demand is that this game features what's now outsourced to external/thirdparty servers.

You DEMAND? I have An average 55% W/L(48% lowest) on 3 accounts now... That is a broken MM? Why should you get what you DEMAND, when by my measurements MM is working fine?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 May 2014 - 03:55 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

It's getting silly to repeat myself all the time, but I guess I still have to.

Elo rating DOESN'T WORK for groups of randomly picked out players.
Elo works ONLY for groups that function as a single entity throughout the ranking process, meaning that changes that happen to that group are player decisions, and aren't likely to happen over longer periods.
Those groups function AS ONE.

Situation with MWO matchmaker is that it makes a different group EVERY game. Yes, that's completely opposite of the previous principle.
These groups DO NOT function as ONE, more so there's rarely any cooperation, therefore these groups cannot be matched by their Elo rating.
Players gain or lose Elo rating within these groups 99% of the time regardless of their individual actions(INDIVIDUAL, remember this word). Bad players can have their Elo rating raised by being carried, while good players can have their Elo rating drop by having morons for teammates (no matter how much you deny it, but when somebody says "**** team", they're usually right. I am a **** teammate, because I stopped caring a long time ago.).

If this game had a 1v1, 4v4, 8v8, and 12v12 group only queue, and a system for actually creating ingame player regiments, then Elo would be a perfectly viable type of ranking.
Currently, it's a permanent placeholder cause PGI is too incompetent to design anything more elaborate.

[maniacos]

DeadlyNerd, on 09 May 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

It's getting silly to repeat myself all the time, but I guess I still have to.

Elo rating DOESN'T WORK for groups of randomly picked out players.
Elo works ONLY for groups that function as a single entity throughout the ranking process, meaning that changes that happen to that group are player decisions, and aren't likely to happen over longer periods.
Those groups function AS ONE.

Situation with MWO matchmaker is that it makes a different group EVERY game. Yes, that's completely opposite of the previous principle.
These groups DO NOT function as ONE, more so there's rarely any cooperation, therefore these groups cannot be matched by their Elo rating.
Players gain or lose Elo rating within these groups 99% of the time regardless of their individual actions(INDIVIDUAL, remember this word). Bad players can have their Elo rating raised by being carried, while good players can have their Elo rating drop by having morons for teammates (no matter how much you deny it, but when somebody says "**** team", they're usually right. I am a **** teammate, because I stopped caring a long time ago.).

If this game had a 1v1, 4v4, 8v8, and 12v12 group only queue, and a system for actually creating ingame player regiments, then Elo would be a perfectly viable type of ranking.
Currently, it's a permanent placeholder cause PGI is too incompetent to design anything more elaborate.

I can agree to that.

[maniacos]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 03:50 AM, said:

No I used your post as the sounding board it was the last one... Also
You DEMAND? I have An average 55% W/L(48% lowest) on 3 accounts now... That is a broken MM? Why should you get what you DEMAND, when by my measurements MM is working fine?

I demand, yes. And I would even pay for it, if PGI would promise to certain changes. There are third-party services providing what should be already in game actually, so there seems to be demand for these features otherwise these services wouldn't exist or be used. As long as there is need for these third-party things that other games have implemented, there is reason to demand it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jherek C, on 09 May 2014 - 05:03 AM, said:

I demand, yes. And I would even pay for it, if PGI would promise to certain changes. There are third-party services providing what should be already in game actually, so there seems to be demand for these features otherwise these services wouldn't exist or be used. As long as there is need for these third-party things that other games have implemented, there is reason to demand it.

There is also reason to remain patient and remember you place. YOU are not the stern woman that the DEVs fear. You are not signing the checks, Your demands are the equivalent of a petulant child demanding Ice Cream when there is cake for the having. You are 1 of 500,000+ Members Who wants something done. Take a number get in line.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 09 May 2014 - 05:12 AM.

[maniacos]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

There is also reason to remain patient and remember you place. YOU are not the stern woman that the DEVs fear. You are not signing the checks, Your demands are the equivalent of a petulant child demanding Ice Cream when there is cake for the having. You are 1 of 500,000+ Members Who wants something done. Take a number get in line.

And I am one of a few that complain about MM and ELO and I am one of these that are supposed to use third-party services because the DEV is not implementing them. And I am a customer. I could be patient, if there was announcement for these feature requests being in consideration, but for that, the demands have to be told first. That is why demanding is quite legit.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jherek C, on 09 May 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

And I am one of a few that complain about MM and ELO and I am one of these that are supposed to use third-party services because the DEV is not implementing them. And I am a customer. I could be patient, if there was announcement for these feature requests being in consideration, but for that, the demands have to be told first. That is why demanding is quite legit.

You are one of many who complain about MM & Elo, but that may not be the majority of the 500,000 members of this community. And demanding anything from someone making anything should be met with

[Boris The Spider]

Jherek C, on 09 May 2014 - 03:15 AM, said:

I wish I could do that, planning the drop instead of throwing the MM-dice. All I demand is that this game features what's now outsourced to external/thirdparty servers.

Jherek, your still not getting what I'm trying to tell you. The matchmaker did not make your team run into that kill-box, your team decided of their own vocation to run into that kill-box! And the matchmaker most certainly didn't stop you typing to your team to warn them that's what they were about to do. Which leads me back to this :

Jherek C, on 09 May 2014 - 01:00 AM, said:

And if this is because the game advantages the team who scores the first kill too much, then it is still a flaw in the game.

See this is why your getting frustrated, your treating the game all wrong. The game doesn’t start and is not decided when the 1^st mech is destroyed, it is decided long before that. The 'game' is to get your team to move into a favourable position, locate the weak point on the enemy team and hit it in an attempt to collapse their ranks. The other teams job is to stop you doing this, while simultaneously trying to do the same thing to you. Its not a death-match game, its a team strategy game and until you start playing it like one, you will not enjoy it, winning or losing.

My suggestion, as it is to everyone who is having trouble like this is to join one of the public team-speak servers, get yourself into a pickup group, get some critique on your technique and learn how to play part of the team. You wont win all your games, you will be lucky to scrape a 50% W/L in a VPUG, but once you have done this for a while, playing solo becomes both fun and laughably easy and you will never understand why you even had a problem in the first place. *and yes, obviously PGI should get their thumb out, as I have been saying since closed beta and sort out the in-game social features, but until then check the stickys in the new player help for the public team-speak servers.

Edited by Boris The Spider, 09 May 2014 - 07:59 AM.

[maniacos]

Boris The Spider, on 09 May 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

Jherek, your still not getting what I'm trying to tell you. The matchmaker did not make your team run into that kill-box, your team decided of their own vocation to run into that kill-box! And the matchmaker most certainly didn't stop you typing to your team to warn them that's what they were about to do. Which leads me back to this :

That was also totally not my topic. I won't repeat myself again here...

Joseph Mallan, on 09 May 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

You are one of many who complain about MM & Elo, but that may not be the majority of the 500,000 members of this community. And demanding anything from someone making anything should be met with

Who knows how many are complaining. And how many would like a proper lobby, chat and socialisation features.