263 replies to this topic

[AUSSIETROOPER4]

[color=#959595]that's essential for LRMs - no counterplay, just "haha, sorry you wasted your module slot, sucker! [/color]

Did you ever think of it the other way around? i.e. non-missile mech gets "haha you just wasted all your module because I don't even have to bother facing you sucker.

If you don't have ECM and get targetted by missiles in one of three or four ways and then get rained upon by 5 or more mechs at once. It can be like this.

I don't hate the missile mechs but you do have to realise that it is a stand off weapon that can essentially mean that you are fighting 5 mechs at once through no fault of your own. In fact I wonder sometimes why they bothered to waste mechs with missiles. Just put em on a truck. No need for all that armour.

[Void Angel]

Uh, no. You're trying to mix apples and oranges - if LRMs were overpowered, they would need to be rebalanced: it's not a matter of comparing module slots. Similarly, while you can be taking fire from five enemies on rare occasions, that's still not the same as "fighting five 'Mechs." The LRM boats have to have a constant lock and a clear field of fire; the target has typically several seconds to get into cover or break lock, which is usually sufficient. Also, those 'mechs have to be facing the target - there's no "I don't have to even bother facing you" with LRM boats or any other 'mech. Missile locks operate just like any arm-based weapon on any 'mech - the difference is that instead of snapping off a shot and twisting to protect your vitals, a missile boat has to stare at the target for several seconds before and after firing.

Part of the costs of being an LRM boat is that you need that Target Decay module (as well as increased range) leaving you with less slots for things like seismic sensor and consumables. Letting any sniper who wants it have a "get out of target decay free" card isn't balanced - both players spent a module slot, but only one of them gets the benefit. The additional risk (that there will be no LRM 'mechs) run by the 'mech using the Counter-Decay module isn't sufficient to offset the facts that 1: Advanced Decay is a required slot for LRM boats; you really need that extra tracking to be effective, and 2: the Counter-Decay player is only going to take the module if he finds that LRM suppression is a problem for him at his Elo level and play time.

The proposed module is a great idea if it's restricted to scout 'mechs - the non-ecm lights could really, really use it. But if it's not a role-specific module... If Target Decay is too powerful with the missile buffs, nerf the module - not the entire weapon system.

Edited by Void Angel, 02 June 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[Void Angel]

PS: They did put them on trucks. But since they're primarily Line of Sight weapon systems in Battletech, it made sense to mount them on an armored platform. In MWO, they don't have trucks, but if they did you would still have benefits for mounting LRMs in an armored chassis - given the weapon system's dependence on good lanes of fire, you need an armored vehicle to absorb the risk of positioning them effectively.

Remember what I said about thinking LRMs are just point-and-shoot weapons?

[Krometheus]

Thanks for the update guys. Your doing a great job!

Edited by Krometheus, 02 June 2014 - 09:13 AM.

[Raigner]

Jakob Knight, on 30 May 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

I think the description given for the module is pretty self-explanatory. The module completely removes any and all decay from the mounting mech at all times. Any and all effects that increase or decrease target decay become null and void, as there -is- no decay to affect. A mech with an Advanced Target Decay module is just as crippled by this as a mech without one, and if the mounting unit has ECM, the mech pretty much becomes LRM-proof except in direct-fire conditions at short ranges....exactly the situation the Devs put in the minimum range artificial effect to ensure LRM units to -NOT- try to fight in. And, given how easy it is to use terrain to break missile tracking and impact at the current time, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize this will kill any viable use of these weapons. It's also rather telling that the 'absolute effect' 'magic' equipment in the game such as ECM (which works no matter what the range and overcomes everything unless so close it doesn't matter anymore) and this new module (eliminates -all- Decay, no matter how big or small) is all aimed squarely at LRMs, while the equipment meant for LRMs is all marginal-percentage based (increase Decay time by a small percentage, decrease lock time by a small percentage, increase concentration by a small percentage.....).

We can only hope the Devs will include an Orbital Tracking Module when this comes out to allow LRM units to track any unit they have locked onto regardless of terrain or line-of-sight to balance out this, but I have to conclude they simply don't want LRMs in their game anymore and need to do soft-eliminations like this to so cripple them that players will either stop using them, or be non-factors on the battlefield if they do. In effect, they are punishing anyone who takes LRMs and tries to fight with them at long range, and anyone who takes LRMs and tries to fight with them at short range as well.

Yes I am sure your correct, that's why almost every mech in the clan pack packs an LRM somewhere, and almost all of them have a configuration that is heavily focused on LRM support, and that's also why many of the clan mechs pack a NARC launcher. That beacon like device that broadcasts your position to the entire enemy team, increases all accuracy of missiles against you, stacks with tag, and cancels ECM. It come with a module witch gives it more range and a longer deploy time. and when most of these mechs are not packing missiles, there packing long range direct fire support weapons that can hold there own in a brawl. I am totally sure PGI is trying very hard to kill LRMs, now how about you think a bit more before you put on your tin foil hat and in the future try maybe working with your LRMs as a team for coordinated fire support rather then just assume that there worthless because they lose there lock a little quicker, you know role warfare and all that. oh almost forgot they can also do some damage under 180 as well, nope I don't see LRMs going anywhere.

[Void Angel]

He's partially right - though he does go off into the Land of Make-Believe when he starts with the wild conjuecture. The problem with that module as described is that it really will make anyone who snipes from cover functionally immune to LRMs at most ranges; the only time they'll get hit is when they move back down a hillside. He glosses over team spotting and positioning, but the core issue remains. LRMs need target decay to function in their current state, and that module doesn't merely decrease it - it takes it all away.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Why is the matchmaker making teams wich should directly attack each other?

Why is it a teamkill to shoot down a opposte faction? (i don t do it..but I think it is wrong!)

[Cimarb]

Marc von der Heide, on 04 June 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

Why is the matchmaker making teams wich should directly attack each other?

Why is it a teamkill to shoot down a opposte faction? (i don t do it..but I think it is wrong!)

The first phase of CW, hopefully in August, is going to fix that. It may even be sooner than that, as Karl is fixing the matchmaker and may institute the faction adjustments as part of that (wishful thinking, but it is possible).

[RabbitHRF]

Imperius, on 30 May 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

You're a certain kind of special aren't you? I bet you think LRM's are OP too... Right?

LRM's Are perfect! No changes needed. Oh and yes I'm special! Deal with it! Nerf is a sign of the unimaginable and weak skilled. Instead of nerfing the A/C's range add shell drop. Make it so you have to deal with distance by increasing muzzle elevation when firing.

[Void Angel]

RabbitHRF, on 04 June 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

LRM's Are perfect! No changes needed. Oh and yes I'm special! Deal with it! Nerf is a sign of the unimaginable and weak skilled. Instead of nerfing the A/C's range add shell drop. Make it so you have to deal with distance by increasing muzzle elevation when firing.

That's just another kind of nerf - you should be less unimaginable.

[C E Dwyer]

When the test servers are up long enough to use, at reasonable times for europeans, and not slap bang in the middle of meal time then I'll use them more

[Rebas Kradd]

Cimarb, on 04 June 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

The first phase of CW, hopefully in August, is going to fix that. It may even be sooner than that, as Karl is fixing the matchmaker and may institute the faction adjustments as part of that (wishful thinking, but it is possible).

I think you mean the second phase. The first phase was Launch Modules.

Yes, that's right, folks...CW has already BEEN released, partially.

[Cimarb]

Rebas Kradd, on 04 June 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I think you mean the second phase. The first phase was Launch Modules.

Yes, that's right, folks...CW has already BEEN released, partially.

Launch Modules were a core feature required for CW, but so was UI2.0 - maybe we are currently in Phase 0.5... I could be mistaken on the phrasing, but phase 1 is supposed to be around August.

Edited by Cimarb, 04 June 2014 - 11:31 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Rebas Kradd, on 04 June 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I think you mean the second phase. The first phase was Launch Modules.

Yes, that's right, folks...CW has already BEEN released, partially.

Nope, you are wrong on that one.

The launch module (specifically the private match section), is part of the set up for CW, along with UI 2.0. We're nowhere near phase 1, hence why they are doing the roll back.

As for nerfs and buffs, here are my two cents:
1- LRMs are fine, and that module will not stop a good spotter from ruining your day. It actually counters players who use LRMs NOT as intended, as direct fire weapons, when they clearly aren't.

2- ACs definitely need a nerf (what recently happened wasn't a nerf so much as bringing them in line.) They still shoot farther than they ever should, and are still single shot instead of burst fire.

[Rooshovuak]

I don't know if this would be possible but why not make 2 separate match making systems so players can have the choice between the 3x4 or the old one. I do enjoy having a balanced game but sometimes it's alot of fun to see 12 assault mechs vs another 12.

[Cimarb]

Rooshovuak, on 05 June 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

I don't know if this would be possible but why not make 2 separate match making systems so players can have the choice between the 3x4 or the old one. I do enjoy having a balanced game but sometimes it's alot of fun to see 12 assault mechs vs another 12.

Because any unneeded fragmentation of the playerbase makes it exponentially worse for everyone.

[Tarzilman]

Is there any chance they (PGI) will continue Hitbox-Tuning after clans have arrived? That said, is there a chance they'll have another look  at the awesome? Not only that its CT still hets most of the damage, there's also no changing model yet when you change your weapon systems. It's very sad seeing that mech so neglected.

:-(

Edited by Tarzilman, 06 June 2014 - 04:21 PM.

[Catalina Steiner]

I second that. The Awesome definitely needs some attention. Even if you don't own an Awesome, try to fit out an Awesome with an 300 engine and an acceptable weaponry in Smurfys Mechlab. You are getting mad with that!
And what about a 300 engine size? My Jenner can carry a 300 engine! Four variants are only able to carry such a small engine. How can you do such things to this poor assault mech?

The Awesome finally needs to be an assault mech. A real assault mech that I hate everytime my Firestarter meets it.

Tarzilman, on 06 June 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

Is there any chance they (PGI) will continue Hitbox-Tuning after clans have arrived? That said, is there a chance they'll have another look at the awesome? Not only that its CT still hets most of the damage, there's also no changing model yet when you change your weapon systems. It's very sad seeing that mech so neglected.

:-(

[LiGhtningFF13]

Hitboxes, useless, when the Clans are here you don't need them anymore. Simply "Alien" technology, far away from what the IS has to offer. So no chance or a small one of survival Tarzilman.

[IraqiWalker]

LiGhtningFF13, on 07 June 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

Hitboxes, useless, when the Clans are here you don't need them anymore. Simply "Alien" technology, far away from what the IS has to offer. So no chance or a small one of survival Tarzilman.

Well, that defeatist attitude won't help us shoot them in the face.

Also, Regardless of technology, we have dudes, and we do have some tech of our own.