206 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

His language is a little awkward, Natasha (Says reducing by 1/10th, but then mentions max ranges of 40m- which means sarcasm. More clear sarcasm would've been "reducing to 1/10th")

Edited by Livewyr, 09 June 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[Saber Avalon]

Natasha Radick, on 09 June 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

Wait. So after hearing it, Clan Weapons have reduced range? WTF is that all about? It's already being "balanced" into the ground so now we have the same range? Then why buy Clan Mechs if they're just going to be shinier than IS mechs?

Livewyr, on 09 June 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

His language is a little awkward, Natasha (Says reducing by 1/10th, but then mentions max ranges of 40m- which means sarcasm. More clear sarcasm would've been "reducing to 1/10th")

As Liivewyr pointed out, they are not reducing Clan weapons range to match the IS weapons, they are reducing their range by 10%. So for example, in MW4, the Clan ER Large Laser had a range of 800m and the IS had 600m. 10% of 800 is 80, so subtract 80 from 800 and you get 720m, to the IS 600m. In MW4's case you are looking at the IS version having 83.33% of the range that the Clan one has.

Now, MWO's IS ER Large Laser is 675m, at present I have no idea what they are going to use for the range on the Clan version. So going by the MW4 example, we can extrapolate what the approx. Clan range will be in MWO, if they follow suit with the percentages. With 675m being our 83.33% mark, in this case, 100% would be 810m. Our approx. Clan ER Large Laser should be around 810m at the reduced value. At it's full value, before the 10% reduction, you would be looking at a 900m C ER Large laser.

From this you can guess, for the other weapons, that they will each have about 70-130m extra range over IS weapons with the reduction. Depending on the weapon. Clans will still have a range advantage over IS weapons.

[SixstringSamurai]

I weep for the matchmaker not accommodating the traditional battle structure of the Star/Point method....

[Saber Avalon]

SixStringSamurai, on 09 June 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

I weep for the matchmaker not accommodating the traditional battle structure of the Star/Point method....

It will. We will have 2 stars and 2 points.... organized in three groups of four >.>. Given that PGI's goal is to make clan mechs equal to an IS equivalent, within 5 tons, you are going to want the same numbers on each team.

Edited by Saber Avalon, 09 June 2014 - 10:27 PM.

[SixstringSamurai]

Saber Avalon, on 09 June 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

It will. We will have 2 stars and 2 points.... organized in three groups of four >.>. Given that PGI's goal is to make clan mechs equal to an IS equivalent, within 5 tons, you are going to want the same numbers on each team.

I wonder if they plan to have honor points or something in the faction points system they planned on to control this. Since LRM boating is counter to all know principles of clan warfare except maybe "The not named clan". But such tactics are pivotal to the IS side in their eventual victory over the first invasion forces. They keep bringing up TT values in CC which is why I wonder, I'm assuming they plan to keep the slot rules while adjusting performance values. The slot rules them selves provide all sorts of bonuses. For example attempt to build the "Red Corsair" in IS tech and you'll understand the space provided.

[Saber Avalon]

SixStringSamurai, on 09 June 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

I wonder if they plan to have honor points or something in the faction points system they planned on to control this. Since LRM boating is counter to all know principles of clan warfare except maybe "The not named clan". But such tactics are pivotal to the IS side in their eventual victory over the first invasion forces. They keep bringing up TT values in CC which is why I wonder, I'm assuming they plan to keep the slot rules while adjusting performance values. The slot rules them selves provide all sorts of bonuses. For example attempt to build the "Red Corsair" in IS tech and you'll understand the space provided.

I am not sure what tangent your post is going off on but, the Kit Fox D, Summoner B, Stormcrow D, Naga, Mad dog, Timber Wolf, (going to stop there but there are many more) wish to speak to you. Even if you read the books, the clans do not see LRMs as dishonorable or against their ways. It is a tool of war and to not make use of it is foolish. The difference between IS and Clan is that the clanner with LRMs will stand in plain view of their opponent when opening fire. There is still honor in using LRMs, as long as you face your enemy and not cower behind a ridge while others spot for you. The few clan groups in this game that ban things like streaks, I can not help but wonder why. Clans went ahead and made Streaks for all tube numbers of SRMs because they like efficiency. Streaks ensure everything hits, so no wasted ammo.

The tactics that the IS used, which were against clan ways, was focus firing a target, setting ambushes, hiding, and guerrilla warfare.

Obviously, when CW comes out, they will have "loyalty points" for each faction and clan. As for the slot talk, I am guessing you are referring to critical slots. As stated in my main post, PGI has stated they will not touch critical slots or weight as that breaks stock builds.

[Thunder Rampage]

Saber Avalon, on 09 June 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:

The few clan groups in this game that ban things like streaks, I can not help but wonder why.

For Clan Nova Cat Alpha Galaxy, Streak SRMs are only banned in trials and duels. No one doubts the effectiveness of streaks, but that effectiveness primarily comes from how easy it is to use them. A Trial of Position is meant to demonstrate a Mechwarrior's skill and to prove themselves worthy of the position they seek. Some Clans have determined that there must restrictions on the Mech builds their warriors bring to ensure that it is the pilots’ skill is the determining factor in a trial, not what weapons they brought.

[Pariah Devalis]

Indeed, as Thunder said. We also limit the number of autocannons (quad UAC5 mechs win in five seconds or less) and ban AC40. Anything to shift the focus of the duel to skill rather than loadout.

[Karl Marlow]

I'm kinda surprised no one is even asking this question. I can't find any information on it.

Will every clan mech be able to equip ECM? If not which ones will?

[101011]

ThomasMarik, on 10 June 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

I'm kinda surprised no one is even asking this question. I can't find any information on it.

Will every clan mech be able to equip ECM? If not which ones will?

It appears that ECM will (for some stupid reason PGI seems to like) not be pod-mounted, and instead be locked to the chassis. To answer your second question, the Kit Fox may have ECM. If you are a Clansman, you had better work under the assumption of no ECM coverage.

[Saber Avalon]

Thunder Rampage, on 10 June 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

For Clan Nova Cat Alpha Galaxy, Streak SRMs are only banned in trials and duels. No one doubts the effectiveness of streaks, but that effectiveness primarily comes from how easy it is to use them. A Trial of Position is meant to demonstrate a Mechwarrior's skill and to prove themselves worthy of the position they seek. Some Clans have determined that there must restrictions on the Mech builds their warriors bring to ensure that it is the pilots’ skill is the determining factor in a trial, not what weapons they brought.

Pariah Devalis, on 10 June 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

Indeed, as Thunder said. We also limit the number of autocannons (quad UAC5 mechs win in five seconds or less) and ban AC40. Anything to shift the focus of the duel to skill rather than loadout.

That being said, in lore, the Clans never made such bans during trials. You were allowed to use everything at the Clan's disposal. Now, given that this is the game and things are a bit different, you want to limit the cheese builds such as the AC40 to test how they pilot a mech. I would understand streaks if they still only went for the CT like in days of old but now each missile has a random target location. Sure, you do not have to aim them but they are not directing damage to a single location. You are not going to kill someone, with streaks, very fast. Non streaks, although manually aimed, can put most of their missiles into the same location. Streaks are not the feared OP weapon of old.

I am somewhat surprised by the quad AC5 restriction as well. Yes, it is high dps but you still have to land multiple shots and there are sacrifices made to make that build. Mobility and range will kill it. I just noticed you said UAC, same limitations exist but now they have 4 tons less ammo to play with and a jam mechanic to deal with. I do not know, to me a clan warrior should not be concerned with what he faces in battle. If someone needs an AC40 to win, then it will show and a skilled pilot would take them down with another build. Curious you did not mention dual gauss or PPC/meta builds. That being said, my favorite build runs MLs, standard SRMs, and an AC10.

I suppose you would want to limit the skilled players from using cheese builds, but then, they are already skilled.

[Demoncard]

I quite like the clan weapons so far. The ultra ACs sound like they'd be fun to use, despite requiring more accuracy and precision than their standard counterparts to use effectively and not spray everywhere on an enemy mech. I don't use lurms, and I probably won't use clan lurms, but after being hit by them, and depending on the force of the impact, I might. The stream mechanic sounds interesting.

Cimarb, on 09 June 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

For a visual of this, please watch Koniving's amazing video:
(Updated with Koniving's video and some refinement/links)

How many cbills is he paying you?

[Saber Avalon]

ThomasMarik, on 10 June 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

I'm kinda surprised no one is even asking this question. I can't find any information on it.

Will every clan mech be able to equip ECM? If not which ones will?

To add to 101011 post, when he says the Kit Fox "may" have ECM he means that we do not have the C variant but PGI mentioned they were considering selling (for c-bills and mc) pods from not available variants. So there is the chance we will get the C variants arm pod with the ECM hardpoint.

[Saber Avalon]

Updated main post, additional info section, with link to the vote to decide on classic or new style Clan logos: http://mwomercs.com/...clan-logo-poll/

[Pariah Devalis]

The problem, Saber, is in a duel mech there is no need for speed in the circle of equals. You are just dealing with a single opponent so ammunition requirements are low. I was not exaggerating: a quad UAC5 duel mech put another equally skilled pilot down in five seconds flat with essentially zero chance of counter play.

Any build that allows that is not fair to the opponent, nor is it a contest of skill. It becomes a matter of putting together the most twinked loadout possible and either getting lucky or shooting first. Not a reward of skill whatsoever.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 June 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[CyclonerM]

101011, on 10 June 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

It appears that ECM will (for some stupid reason PGI seems to like) not be pod-mounted, and instead be locked to the chassis. To answer your second question, the Kit Fox may have ECM. If you are a Clansman, you had better work under the assumption of no ECM coverage.

Stupid reason? We complain about 1-2 DDCs with ECM. If JJs and ECM were pod-mounted we could potentially see 12 jumping Dire Wolves with ERPPCs and UAC/5 AND ECM.

Stupid reason indeed..

Saber Avalon, on 10 June 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

That being said, in lore, the Clans never made such bans during trials. You were allowed to use everything at the Clan's disposal. Now, given that this is the game and things are a bit different, you want to limit the cheese builds such as the AC40 to test how they pilot a mech. I would understand streaks if they still only went for the CT like in days of old but now each missile has a random target location. Sure, you do not have to aim them but they are not directing damage to a single location. You are not going to kill someone, with streaks, very fast. Non streaks, although manually aimed, can put most of their missiles into the same location. Streaks are not the feared OP weapon of old.

In lore, the shots missed or spread almost like their hit were decided by a die roll...

Pariah Devalis, on 10 June 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Any build that allows that is not fair to the opponent, nor is it a contest of skill. It becomes a matter of putting together the most twinked loadout possible and either getting lucky or shooting first. Not a reward of skill whatsoever.

Moreover, the problem is that afaik pretty much every Clan player will fight duels in a very small circle of equals and at a very short range. If the combatants agree to use the whole map as CoE than a 2xAC/20 could be defeated by superior tactics and use of terrain , same for the streaks. LRMs could be used (not too many anyway, and cover should be allowed as long as its use does not become cowardice). After all, LRMs are often used in Trials. Ok, they supposedly have no minimum range and as such are brawling weapons too..

Edited by CyclonerM, 10 June 2014 - 12:42 PM.

[CyclonerM]

[double post, please delete]

Edited by CyclonerM, 10 June 2014 - 12:43 PM.

[Saber Avalon]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 June 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

The problem, Saber, is in a duel mech there is no need for speed in the circle of equals. You are just dealing with a single opponent so ammunition requirements are low. I was not exaggerating: a quad UAC5 duel mech put another equally skilled pilot down in five seconds flat with essentially zero chance of counter play.

Any build that allows that is not fair to the opponent, nor is it a contest of skill. It becomes a matter of putting together the most twinked loadout possible and either getting lucky or shooting first. Not a reward of skill whatsoever.

Well said on the quad UAC5 issue. I take it you guys pick an open grid for the circle, quiaff? I recall from the books that some circles were drawn around large areas, so terrain could be taken advantage of. However, if the circle is forced to an smaller, open, area the restriction makes sense.

[Mvrck]

Jaroth Corbett, on 09 June 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

That mechlab looks sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

Thank you!

[101011]

CyclonerM, on 10 June 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Stupid reason? We complain about 1-2 DDCs with ECM. If JJs and ECM were pod-mounted we could potentially see 12 jumping Dire Wolves with ERPPCs and UAC/5 AND ECM.

Stupid reason indeed..

Well, I am not one of those people who complains about ECM. No amount of electronics can stop a Gauss slug, quiaff?