220 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

Just look at all the changes in recent months, PGI is pretty much making Poptarting with Meta the only way to play.
Lets take a look.

Nerf AC-20 velocity/range/+ghostheat (the one good brawler weapon for punching poptarts in the face up close) ruined
Nerf AC-10 for whatever reason, pretty clunky weapon that nobody uses much of anyway.
Nerf AC-2 range and ROF, 1 good supressive fire weapon with enough velocity to peck at poptarts and throw their aim in time.
Minimal nerfs to AC-5 UAC-5 ranges, of course its the meta load.

NO nerfs to PPC, heaven forbid they alter the most advantageous weapon in the game.

Nerf Victor turn speed, has nothing to do with the meta builds, doesn't effect them at all. Just screws up brawler builds and makes STD engine use pointless. Forces VIctor players into using it as a poptart only, or you handicap yourself.

No fix for the twitchy hunch-over animation when jumping in the VIctor.

SRM's hitreg, been bad, is bad, probably will always be bad. Streaks are still the only brawler missles that are reliable, and much less DPS + spreads all over the mech.

Put big sales for all the poptart mechs during the tournament.

Adds Dakka Meta Banshee, not a poptart but the meta on this mech is rediculous + MASSIVE torso twist range making it extremely difficult for lights or mediums to attack it.

The only thing they did that actually effected poptarts in any respect, is nerfing JJ's across the board, HGN being hit the hardest.

Adds the OP ember as a laughable poptart counter.

No fix to ECM stacking, so if poptarts hang with 2 ECM units, they're impervious to being targeted by missles, or spend CB on a uav which is the only counter.

And sealing the deal, they're going to add a module that makes LRM completely useless against poptarts by eliminating lockons after going into cover, as if ECM wasn't good enough already..(are you freaking kidding me?)

Edited by Mister D, 05 June 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[LastPaladin]

krash27, on 04 June 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

Yup, one of the most powerful weapons in the lore, but in MWO it weighs barely more than an AC 2

How much more did it weigh in pen & paper Battletech, pray tell?

[FlipOver]

FlipOver, on 05 June 2014 - 02:11 AM, said:

Of course it does take skill.

It's not easy to stand behind cover, then jump when the enemy is fighting others and not looking, and aim, and wait to drop, and fire.

Or get 1 or 2 more like you and surprise alpha them at 800m distance.

Man, so many things to master at once...

I'll try my best to do at least 100 dmg with that Jump-Snipping thingy.

What do you know?

All the matches I played like that managed easy kills and always 200+ damage... omg I must be so damn skilled!!!

[Wolfways]

Easy fix. Make battlefields instead of arenas. Would also make LRM's viable.

[Mystere]

Nikkoru, on 05 June 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

Then it should be changed.

Thank you for making my point for me.

And you missed my point entirely. There is a counter. The problem is that many people would rather complain than practice.

[AssaultPig]

I love how all of the 'counters' to poptarting require either 1) coordination from multiple friendles or 2) otherworldly accuracy or 3) both.

I mean, your 'counter' to poptarts is "well, just headshot them when they jump, duhhhhhhh"

[Nikkoru]

Mystere, on 05 June 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

And you missed my point entirely. There is a counter. The problem is that many people would rather complain than practice.

I didn't miss your point, I got it. You said that there were counters, but then listed things that are laughably rare or nearly impossible to pull off, requiring a level of coordination and luck that is unreasonable to expect in a "counter"

When something can only be countered by a random head shot, then it is imbalanced.

Hence, you made my case for me that rebalancing needs to occur.

Edited by Nikkoru, 05 June 2014 - 02:44 PM.

[3rdworld]

Mystere, on 05 June 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

And you missed my point entirely. There is a counter. The problem is that many people would rather complain than practice.

The only effective counter to poptarting is to poptart more effectively.

[Dawnstealer]

Easiest fix would be no shooting while jumping or have there be a massive heat spike while engaging jump jets with damage on hitting the ground without using said jump jets to soften your fall.

On that note, I drool a little when I see someone with regular PPCs and I'm in my Ember. Getting up in their grill (or within 80m) typically takes 20pts of damage off the table for them and they're a lot less scary. The trick being: "getting up in their grill" - some of those guys are REALLY good shots.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 05 June 2014 - 02:39 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Easiest fix would be no shooting while jumping

It would be the easiest fix lol. But youd have so many whiners complaining about their meta builds being destroyed.

[3rdworld]

Khobai, on 05 June 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

It would be the easiest fix lol. But youd have so many whiners complaining about their meta builds being destroyed.

I wouldn't weep for the poptart, but it is a pretty beastly nerf to light mechs as well.

[AssaultPig]

This problem has an incredibly simple fix: reticle shake should just continue throughout the jump. Brawlers could still shoot while jumping somewhat effectively at short range, and it would cut long range jump-sniping down to appropriate 'one in a thousand' territory.

This would (presumably) be an easy fix to implement that wouldn't require a ton of additional balancing or impact a bunch of loadouts that aren't jump snipers (i.e. highlander/victor maneuverability nerfs, falling damage, etc.)

Edited by AssaultPig, 05 June 2014 - 02:45 PM.

[Aresye]

Khobai, on 04 June 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

PPCs are so much better than other weapons, that a single nerf is hardly going to annihilate them. They arnt just a little better than lasers, theyre magnitudes better.

Correction: Every weapon except PPCs has been nerfed to near uselessness, resulting in the PPC becoming the #1 weapon of choice.

Nerfing PPCs will just create a new meta. What they need to do is...

ahh, screw it!

Every freaking weapon in this game is horrible, except PPCs. There is absolutely no hope to balance this game unless they completely change all the stupid mechanics like ghost heat and gauss charge.

I don't care what anybody says about previous MechWarrior games that followed tabletop values as close as possible. Yes, they had balance problems, but nothing near as horrible as what we have in MWO, and every time they change a weapon further away from what it is in tabletop, that weapon either becomes overpowered, or completely useless.

You know what I bet? I bet that if they reset everything to tabletop values the balance would be better than it is now.

Fix the heat system, fix the hit detection, reset everything back to tabletop, and THEN start tweaking individual weapon balance.

Simple as that.

[Nikkoru]

The point is that most everyone poptarts because PGI has made that the most effective game strategy.

So, they should fix the problem they created.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 05 June 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

It would be the easiest fix lol. But youd have so many whiners complaining about their meta builds being destroyed.

How does that even make sense? Just a magical switch that doesn't let you fire if you are in the air as a result of jump jets (but if falling off a cliff its okay, lol)? You show disdain for whiners on that end, but have you seen the volume of threads being started about poptart meta, PPCs ZOMG OP, FLD, PP, meta, etc? "OMG they released a Champion with 2 AC5s and a PPC."... Its just too much..

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 05 June 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

It would be the easiest fix lol. But youd have so many whiners complaining about their meta builds being destroyed.

Since when did a jump-brawler become "meta"?

[Mystere]

Nikkoru, on 05 June 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

I didn't miss your point, I got it. You said that there were counters, but then listed things that are laughably rare or nearly impossible to pull off, requiring a level of coordination and luck that is unreasonable to expect in a "counter"

How would you know? Have you practiced them to the extent required to make a determination?

AssaultPig, on 05 June 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

I love how all of the 'counters' to poptarting require either 1) coordination from multiple friendles or 2) otherworldly accuracy or 3) both.

I mean, your 'counter' to poptarts is "well, just headshot them when they jump, duhhhhhhh"

Isn't this supposed to be a team-based game? Why does requiring coordination make the counter invalid?

[Mcgral18]

Aresye, on 05 June 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

You know what I bet? I bet that if they reset everything to tabletop values the balance would be better than it is now.

Fix the heat system, fix the hit detection, reset everything back to tabletop, and THEN start tweaking individual weapon balance.

Simple as that.

Have they ever actually tried TT stats? When I got in, we were already firing 3x recycles against 2x armor.

[Mystere]

Aresye, on 05 June 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

You know what I bet? I bet that if they reset everything to tabletop values the balance would be better than it is now.

Just as in TT, the Clans will wreck havoc on the balance.

[cSand]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 June 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

How does that even make sense? Just a magical switch that doesn't let you fire if you are in the air as a result of jump jets (but if falling off a cliff its okay, lol)? You show disdain for whiners on that end, but have you seen the volume of threads being started about poptart meta, PPCs ZOMG OP, FLD, PP, meta, etc? "OMG they released a Champion with 2 AC5s and a PPC."... Its just too much..

It doesn't make sense at all. In fact almost every meta "solution" I have seen, would completely ruin JJ's for legitimate brawlers, lights, mediums, and anyone else except people who solely poptart.. It's not the maps' fault either... if you have cover and JJ's, you will have poptarts. I'm not saying everything is perfect, but unfortunately when you strip away all the exaggeration, it's clear that ultimately it is much easier to complain than adapt.

I can really only speak for myself and the 10 or so various people I group with at times in the PUG queue, but nobody has problems with pop tarts. They are not hard to deal with. Even a premade group of 4 Victors, is not hard to combat. I can't be the only person (and I know I'm not) who can hit a moving target in the air. I could go on but someone will invariably come on and say "pff, well maybe in your ELO range" or "try playing competitively, then you'll see" or some other BS. Well I often get grouped with supposed "high ELO" players when I PUG so take what you will from that

So I say this. Quit crying, and figure it the f**k out

Also have a great day

Edited by cSand, 05 June 2014 - 03:57 PM.