684 replies to this topic

[KamikazeRat]

blackicmenace, on 11 June 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

I run solo all of the time. Look for a ECM battle buddy and if none exist better luck next time.

its not a lack of ECM in general, plenty of ECM to be found, generally multiples, just no variety of ECM, its either a light that runs off and hides (or dies) that is equiping ECM solely for their own gains as they skirt the edges of the battlefield, or a D-DC wading into the middle of the battlefield. Does no one else have a problem with how boring that seems as the only non-situational hard counter to LRMs? sure when there were like 10 chassis to choose from that was a good number, but its going to be around 40 soon, should we get a couple more that can run ECM? even if its just new incoming chassis, or clans stuff, or heck even an ECM hero. just something different. maybe this got a little off-topic, but i can't be alone in this thought.

Edited by KamikazeRat, 11 June 2014 - 05:04 PM.

[blackicmenace]

geodeath, on 11 June 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

Nope, don't nerf them. Buff everything else by removing ghost heat. Let me alpha one of these no skill boats with a bunch of er larges or ppcs.

I find comments like this very funny how someone that happens to be in a LRM boat can't have aim/skill. As if thats the only thing they can use properly. Maybe that may hold true for some but you may be seriously underestimating people if you truly believe that. I love it when people charge my LRM boats and find out the hard way I can aim too and depending on the mech may even do more damage up close when not supporting team mates.

[blackicmenace]

KamikazeRat, on 11 June 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

its not a lack of ECM in general, plenty of ECM to be found, generally multiples, just no variety of ECM, its either a light that runs off and hides (or dies) that is equiping ECM solely for their own gains as they skirt the edges of the battlefield, or a D-DC wading into the middle of the battlefield. Does no one else have a problem with how boring that seems as the only non-situational hard counter to LRMs? sure when there were like 10 chassis to choose from that was a good number, but its going to be around 40 soon, should we get a couple more that can run ECM? even if its just new incoming chassis, or clans stuff, or heck even an ECM hero. just something different. maybe this got a little off-topic, but i can't be alone in this thought.

There are more variants and mechs that have ECM, just not implemented yet. Every public game is a dice roll on player skill. If they don't know how to be a team player or just lack the skill to play the role correctly, well those are just the brakes. No one said solo Pug is easy, I enjoy a challenge but I will admit it does get annoying when you can't get teammates that are willing to work as a team.

[KageRyuu]

Ultimately the problem comes down to accuracy. In the TT roughly half your LRMs would miss the target, thus reducing damage potential right off the bat, and would further spread the damage all over your mech, kind of like the current rendition of Streaks. But with MWO all your LRMs either hit center mass, whatever section that may be depending on facing, or miss, and they only ever miss because your target broke LOS and happened to have Radar Degradation, entered a friendly ECM field, or managed to find cover, which is fairly lacking in some maps especially for non-midget mechs.

Add to that the rather ineffective nature of AMS with it's .5 second targeting delay and propensity for aiming at the closest target regardless of whether it can kill it or not, and out right missile spam, you get LRMs that can out DPS any other weapon and even out Burst Damage some builds, which frankly should be impossible for an indirect fire capable weapon. This is of course all before Tags, Narc, and Aremis get rolled into the situation which further increases the grouping of the missile pattern ensuring far more efficient point damage, even on par with PPCs and Gauss.

How does one fix this? Don't know, take the targeting code from the streaks and work it into LRMs maybe? Reduce rate of fire or increase heat? Either or could work, but regardless AMS could certainly do with reduced or outright removed targeting delay as well given the tightly packed swarms LRMs travel in and the rather insignificant impact they seem to have.

Edited by KageRyuu, 11 July 2014 - 08:49 PM.

[ice trey]

They don't require twitch-click skill like jump sniping does, and I think that's good.

What they do require is good positioning, and teammates who actually work as a team.

With the clan mechs... or more specifically, the huge amount of Timber Wolves on the field, there's been a surge in LRM use. Coupled with the fact that NARC isn't total garbage anymore, and LRMs are starting to come back into the game meta somewhat more.

I remember being frustrated as hell before the clan packs whenever I'd try to support the team. Nobody would take LRM units because everyone was too busy with ERLL/ERPPC/Gauss/AC5 builds. With nobody spotting and giving them a chance to lock on, LRM units were just asking to get flanked and stomped.

Likewise, I'd make 'mechs made for supporting LRM units, since I'm not the best shot in the world. NARC, TAG, the works... Pop a few UAVs over the enemy... but the fire support would never come. So few people supported LRM users that players stopped using LRMs for the most part. The old LRM boat Awesomes, Stalkers, Catapults, and Battlemasters started to fade in obscurity in favor of Jagermechs, Highlanders, and Phracts.

For the moment, stick with your ECM units, pack AMS, and use cover wisely.

Edited by ice trey, 11 July 2014 - 09:08 PM.

[Lykaon]

WDBDBloodyTriggerZ, on 08 June 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

LRMS are skill less and overpowered all you need to to is look in the general direction of the enemy press the button to lock on and fire. Before if you were a fast light you were able to evade them now its almost impossible. LRMs are ruining this game and they need to be nerfed NOW!

Victims of LRMs are frequently the skill less portion of the equation.

FYI the procedure is ...

One: the LRM carrier or a friendly mech gets a solid sensor lock on an enemy.This detected enemy is now a viable target for indirect LRM fire (or direct if the LRM carrier it's self can see it.)

Ways to avoid this step: Not be seen,be under ECM cover (can't be sensor locked) use a radar deprivation module to break sensor lock instantly when breaking LOS.

Two: The LRM carrier must now keep the sensor detected target under the firing reticule for a brief period of time to attain a missile lock.Once a missile lock is attained LRMs may be fired at the target.This lock must be maintained to assure the LRMs will strike the target.A broken lock has the LRMs moving to the last known target location when the missile lock was lost.

Ways to avoid this step: Do not be seen.Be under ECM cover,use a radar deprivation module.and obviously move when you have the "missile launch detected" announcment.(it may not be neccissary to say but,MOVE INTO COVER! do not blunder about in the open)

Three: The LRM carrier must be in a possition where there are no obstructions capable of blocking the flight path of the LRMs to the target.Obviously this means no tall hills,buildings or structures and LRMs are nearly useless while in a tunnel,cave or over hang.

Ways to avoid this step: keep yourself close to tall buildings cliffs or overhangs and move into the "shadow" of these obstructions when you hear a "missile launch detected" warning.

Step four: assuming one through three went off without a hitch a volley of the slowest moving projectiles in the game are in flight towards a target.Your target has either been caught in a poor possition away from defensive cover (one they chose to enter) or your target is a flailing moron who does not not know what "missile launch detected" means or what ECM does or what a radar dep module does or use an AMS.In either case your enemy made a mistake or took a chance and now they will be punished for poor judgment.

Ways to avoid this step: Don't make poor choices and keep near cover or,don't be a flailing moron.Know what ECM does know what a radar dep module does use AMS take "missile launch detected" alarms seriously.

General anti LRM tactics:

One: use cover when manuvering.

Two: Pay attention to the location LRMs are fired from.Many of the less skilled Lurmers like to park and spam.These players are doing it wrong.Pinpoint their possitions and alert your team mates of the LRM carrier's location.Once you know where the LRMs are fired from you know where you need to be to have cover from the LRM launchers.

Three: If you are a fast moving mech be prepared to make a dangerous but potentially mandatory assault on an LRM carrier.Most LRM carriers are less agile than a light or medium mech and pack less firepower than an average light mech once you close to under 180m.(clan LRMs are more problematic but still closer is better ) A team that allows themselves to be pinned down is to blame not LRMs. I have seen 5 mechs with AMS close to brawling distances with heavy LRM rain taking only superficial damage due to massed AMS effects.This is preferable to sitting until the AMS ammo runs dry.It is almost always better to assault and close range than sit and get nickled and dimed to death by LRMs.


I can not stress this enough but here I go...

LRMs prey on the disorganized and the unprepared.This is why I use my LRM stalker in the solo queue and park it in the mechbay when I play the group queue.

If you want to avoid falling victim to LRMs do not be disorganized and unprepared.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Lrm spam boats, specifically indirect fire, are by and far the least enjoyable aspect of mwo minus the pop tarting tryhard teams. What is fun about being repeatedly beaten and shaken from multiple opponents who are perfectly safe from any and all retaliatory efforts thanks to one nearly unkillable ECM spider popping out and looking at you for a split second every couple of seconds to keep lock from 700m away because you made the "suicidal" and terrible decision to move 100m to the next piece of cover in order to support your forward lancemates in a <60 kph assault?

Radar deprivation is one of the best steps to making them balanced, but does it overkill and comes with an inexplicable 15000 gxp exp wall to stop new players from enjoying more balanced indirect fire gameplay because god knows that would be terrible! and also costs 6 million cbills PER MECH unless you go through the hassle of hunting down the module and switching it out any time you want to play another mech, but who needs to play multiple mechs anyway!? Sarcasm aside I pretty much switch mechs just about every game or two because I enjoy variety and I would need at least 12 modules to realistically not risk forgetting to equip one after a match. If the base target retention time was 1.5 secs with the target decay module increasing that to ~2 and radar dep. reducing the time by 33-50% then I think indrect fire would be in a much more balanced state, especially coming along with an overhaul of ECM and lrms "buffs" (TAG/NARC/artemis etc.) and counters.

ECM invisibility cloak is one of the worst design decisions in current multiplayer gaming and balancing around situational hard counters that may or may not be present in a game where you don't decide your team composition in most cases and can easily be a victim of 0 ECM vs 2 ECM light spotters, 1 ECM DDC, and 4 dedicated lrm boats on caustic or alpine where you will lose pretty much no matter what your team does baring MAJOR skill discrepancies between teams. Make ECM prevent detailed info but still allow target locks and just significantly increase lock-on time as it does not.

If you play as a direwolf or 90+ ton mech you are almost required to use the module unless you don't mind risking a potential 10% total mech health loss every 10m for moving more than 50m from lrm protected cover because you cannot retreat forward or backwards to cover in time to save a limb if multiple lrm boats are firing on you and you were on the wrong side of one of the buildings in frozen city, and you just die if they positioned lrm 90+ degrees apart relative to your position firing on you in a place like canyon network. The taller mechs get hit by lrms in canyon network in the valleys quite often even if they move as close to the sides as possible without being able to crouch or fall down because of the ridiculously sharp angle of attack lrms employ.

TL;DR version: lrms are the anti-fun for everyone on the opposite team, cause game-play stagnation and force assaults to hump cover or risk death from the sky, and drive away new players more than pop tarting since lrms boating doesn't require aiming and is more effective at lower ELO ranges where new players are more likely found. The chief reason is that lrms launchers focus the same target from mutliple mechs possibly 100s of m away from each other and expose no risk at all to any mech but the mech getting LOS on the target ergo multiples mechs get rewards for only one mech's risk. Fix ECM, nerf lrms counters, nerf indirect fire accuracy and target retention outside of TAG/NARC, nerf radar dep, and nerf lrm attack angles.

Edited by Tw1stedMonkey, 12 July 2014 - 01:45 AM.

[Galenit]

KageRyuu, on 11 July 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

Ultimately the problem comes down to accuracy. In the TT roughly half your LRMs would miss the target, thus reducing damage potential right off the bat, and would further spread the damage all over your mech, kind of like the current rendition of Streaks. But with MWO all your LRMs either hit center mass...

50% hitrate?
50% ???

Most lrm users are aroud 35% hitrate with their lrms, your post says we need a buff for our lrms!

[Wolfways]

KageRyuu, on 11 July 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

Ultimately the problem comes down to accuracy. In the TT roughly half your LRMs would miss the target, thus reducing damage potential right off the bat, and would further spread the damage all over your mech, kind of like the current rendition of Streaks. But with MWO all your LRMs either hit center mass, whatever section that may be depending on facing, or miss, and they only ever miss because your target broke LOS and happened to have Radar Degradation, entered a friendly ECM field, or managed to find cover, which is fairly lacking in some maps especially for non-midget mechs.

Add to that the rather ineffective nature of AMS with it's .5 second targeting delay and propensity for aiming at the closest target regardless of whether it can kill it or not, and out right missile spam, you get LRMs that can out DPS any other weapon and even out Burst Damage some builds, which frankly should be impossible for an indirect fire capable weapon. This is of course all before Tags, Narc, and Aremis get rolled into the situation which further increases the grouping of the missile pattern ensuring far more efficient point damage, even on par with PPCs and Gauss.

How does one fix this? Don't know, take the targeting code from the streaks and work it into LRMs maybe? Reduce rate of fire or increase heat? Either or could work, but regardless AMS could certainly do with reduced or outright removed targeting delay as well given the tightly packed swarms LRMs travel in and the rather insignificant impact they seem to have.

You forgot that in TT LRM's had the same "flight time" as every other weapon. i.e. instant. Giving the target a chance to get to cover after they have been fired at is a massive nerf for LRM's.

[Appogee]

Galenit, on 12 July 2014 - 01:44 AM, said:

50% hitrate?
50% ???
Most lrm users are aroud 35% hitrate with their lrms, your post says we need a buff for our lrms!

Mine are around 30%, but I generally don't bother to take Artemis, preferring to trade the accuracy for the additional tonnage, as I mostly use LRMs as a secondary weapon system in a more diverse loadout.

LRMs are very easy to use - remote locks, guided munitions - so the "low skill" claim is true . Sure, you can improve their effectiveness significantly by using skill... which is why some LRM users maintain their argument that "LRMs require high skill".

The fact is, "using LRMs well requires high skill".

However, even in their base state, without investing in enhancements like Artemis and TAG and target lock retention, and without carefully managing engagement ranges, just simply spamming at remote locks, LRMs will deliver ''lucky last point of damage" kills from time to time, and tally up reasonable damage in a match.

So, in way, both sides of the argument are right. LRMs are easy to use, but you can apply skill and make them more effective. They're not ''match-winning'' by themselves, but if you get lots of players using them, they can be ... same as every other weapon type.

I think they're in a pretty good place at the moment. It's up to each player whether they're content to spam LRMs, or to fight in a more challenging or skillful way with direct fire weapons.

Edited by Appogee, 12 July 2014 - 01:55 AM.

[Wolfways]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 12 July 2014 - 01:41 AM, said:

Lrm spam boats, specifically indirect fire, are by and far the least enjoyable aspect of mwo minus the pop tarting tryhard teams. What is fun about being repeatedly beaten and shaken from multiple opponents who are perfectly safe from any and all retaliatory efforts thanks to one nearly unkillable ECM spider popping out and looking at you for a split second every couple of seconds to keep lock from 700m away because you made the "suicidal" and terrible decision to move 100m to the next piece of cover in order to support your forward lancemates in a <60 kph assault?

Well it's not fun for you and all the other people who either can't or refuse to learn to play.

Quote

Radar deprivation is one of the best steps to making them balanced, but does it overkill and comes with an inexplicable 15000 gxp exp wall to stop new players from enjoying more balanced indirect fire gameplay because god knows that would be terrible! and also costs 6 million cbills PER MECH unless you go through the hassle of hunting down the module and switching it out any time you want to play another mech, but who needs to play multiple mechs anyway!? Sarcasm aside I pretty much switch mechs just about every game or two because I enjoy variety and I would need at least 12 modules to realistically not risk forgetting to equip one after a match. If the base target retention time was 1.5 secs with the target decay module increasing that to ~2 and radar dep. reducing the time by 33-50% then I think indrect fire would be in a much more balanced state, especially coming along with an overhaul of ECM and lrms "buffs" (TAG/NARC/artemis etc.) and counters.

You'd think PGI wanted to give players the chance to learn how to deal with LRM's instead of just automatically joining team derp... Crazy i know.

Quote

ECM invisibility cloak is one of the worst design decisions in current multiplayer gaming and balancing around situational hard counters that may or may not be present in a game where you don't decide your team composition in most cases and can easily be a victim of 0 ECM vs 2 ECM light spotters, 1 ECM DDC, and 4 dedicated lrm boats on caustic or alpine where you will lose pretty much no matter what your team does baring MAJOR skill discrepancies between teams. Make ECM prevent detailed info but still allow target locks and just significantly increase lock-on time as it does not.

Well you got something right. ECM does need changed, but as it is it only affects the LRM user.

Quote

If you play as a direwolf or 90+ ton mech you are almost required to use the module unless you don't mind risking a potential 10% total mech health loss every 10m for moving more than 50m from lrm protected cover because you cannot retreat forward or backwards to cover in time to save a limb if multiple lrm boats are firing on you and you were on the wrong side of one of the buildings in frozen city, and you just die if they positioned lrm 90+ degrees apart relative to your position firing on you in a place like canyon network. The taller mechs get hit by lrms in canyon network in the valleys quite often even if they move as close to the sides as possible without being able to crouch or fall down because of the ridiculously sharp angle of attack lrms employ.

Strange. I have a 53kph Stalker and i have no trouble with LRM's...especially in Canyon as nearly the whole map gives excellent cover from LRM's.

Quote

TL;DR version: lrms are the anti-fun for everyone on the opposite team, cause game-play stagnation and force assaults to hump cover or risk death from the sky, and drive away new players more than pop tarting since lrms boating doesn't require aiming and is more effective at lower ELO ranges where new players are more likely found. The chief reason is that lrms launchers focus the same target from mutliple mechs possibly 100s of m away from each other and expose no risk at all to any mech but the mech getting LOS on the target ergo multiples mechs get rewards for only one mech's risk. Fix ECM, nerf lrms counters, nerf indirect fire accuracy and target retention outside of TAG/NARC, nerf radar dep, and nerf lrm attack angles.

Imo.
Fix ECM to do what it is supposed to do, as in TT. Remove stupid counters like Radar Derp module. Leave AMS as is, it is fine.
Nerf indirect-fire to only TAG, NARC, UAV if only to stop the whining.
Buff the hell out of direct-fire, flight speed, damage, and ammo/ton (for all ammo-based weapons).
Make LRM's worth using as main weapons without having to boat them!

Appogee, on 12 July 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

The fact is, "using LRMs well requires high skill".

I think it's more like "using LRM's well requires low skill targets".

[The Blood God]

buy a spider 5-d a radar derp module and a nice tall glass of shut the hell up

[Varik Ronain]

Why cant we let this damn thread die already. No one is going to convince anyone here to change their minds and I bet no matter what someone has to say it was already said in the first 10 pages.

[Sephlock]

Varik Ronain, on 12 July 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

Why cant we let this damn thread die already. No one is going to convince anyone here to change their minds and I bet no matter what someone has to say it was already said in the first 10 pages.

Because the worst players in the game (with some help from the trolls) can't let it go.

No matter how many modules, pieces of equipment, parts of terrain, or whatever that PGI adds to help them...



And feedback from them is constantly making PGI try to. Again and again.

I predict that by next year we will have at least 2 more anti-missile tweaks to the game (most likely in the form of something equippable).

Edited by Sephlock, 12 July 2014 - 12:56 PM.

[Pjwned]

WDBDBloodyTriggerZ, on 08 June 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

Before if you were a fast light you were able to evade them now its almost impossible.

Yeah I guess if you're sitting in the open 250m away they're pretty hard to dodge, otherwise they're still easily avoidable but not a complete joke like they were before.

KamikazeRat, on 11 June 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

its not a lack of ECM in general, plenty of ECM to be found, generally multiples, just no variety of ECM, its either a light that runs off and hides (or dies) that is equiping ECM solely for their own gains as they skirt the edges of the battlefield, or a D-DC wading into the middle of the battlefield. Does no one else have a problem with how boring that seems as the only non-situational hard counter to LRMs? sure when there were like 10 chassis to choose from that was a good number, but its going to be around 40 soon, should we get a couple more that can run ECM? even if its just new incoming chassis, or clans stuff, or heck even an ECM hero. just something different. maybe this got a little off-topic, but i can't be alone in this thought.

Taking cover isn't a situational hard counter, and hard counters are bad design 95% of the time anyways.

Edited by Pjwned, 12 July 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[Sandslice]

If there's one thing that needs to be nerfed about LRMs, it's the amount of shake they have. If there's two, it's range: being in a (pi)km² kill zone just because someone saw you and pushed a button is a bit silly.

It's one thing to get caught and lurmed. It's another altogether to get caught, lurmed, and spend the next 75 seconds playing the game on horseback because your Dire Pickle can't move faster than a five-year-old's fastball and is in perpetual 0.4 shake from an endless LRM storm.

(But yeah, LRMs are annoying but can be dealt with. Yes, cover IS situational; some maps, eg Caustic, have far less than others. It's just a matter of knowing how much room-to-cover you need on the 'Mech you have - and trying to balance playing to that with the usual teamwork.

And if all else fails, build a missile boat yerself and give as good as you just got. )

Edited by Sandslice, 12 July 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[COOL HANDS]

As if it isn't hard enough already for lrm guys to provide cover fire for there team dealing with the ecm and ams. Not to mention having LRM nerfed to uselessness. They still complain? What's the next obstacle there going to put in front of us a giant dome that covers the whole team the entire match.

[Mavairo]

WDBDBloodyTriggerZ, on 08 June 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

LRMS are skill less and overpowered all you need to to is look in the general direction of the enemy press the button to lock on and fire. Before if you were a fast light you were able to evade them now its almost impossible. LRMs are ruining this game and they need to be nerfed NOW!

So you're one of the guys CI rolled over earlier today when we took LRMs?
Here's what you did wrong
1: you stood out in the open, you began taking fire from 6 mechs all armed with LRM 30 or better. And then you did nothing but stand there like a derp while the rain continued to fall.
2: for some reason that is difficult to fathom, after you saw your team mate get obliterated not even a minute and a half ago, for doing it... You left your allies ECM cover and proceeded to do step 1.
3: You didn't even torso twist to spread the damage around
4: You didn't even take AMS.
5: if you were one of the guys we killed a little later, you RAN AND HID instead of advancing hell for leather through varying Line of sight breaking cover to begin tearing up our lines.

There were only 3 matches out of 9 where we took LRMs that we actually won, before we went back to our brawling ways, and resumed rolling hard through the ques in 12 to 4, 12 to 6, 12 to 3, 12 to 11 wins.
The 6 matches in which we lost 12 to 6, 12 to 7, 12 to 4, 12 to 3, 12 to 5, and 12 to 2 the opposition did Exactly what you're supposed to do with enemy LRM on the field.
Classic Forum Case Study in the recommended tactics.
1: they didn't play scaredy cat just because it started raining a little.
2: they advanced as hard as they could as fast as they could with dedicated brawlers, through varying pieces of cover some just breaking LOS with the radar derp module on, under the cover of ECM
3: the ones who were taking damage spread the damage around by twisting, and moving laterally to the missiles
4: they didn't at any point sit and park.

In other words, if you're losing to LRMs you're just not that good.
You aren't even Average, You're a Bad. You should probably ask yourself, if LRMs are so Op why is it you don't see them in high end teams, or why even above average pilots like myself almost never see them taken as anything but a lolz to change pace a little.

Edited by Mavairo, 12 July 2014 - 01:28 PM.

[Zerberus]

Sephlock, on 12 July 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

Because the worst players in the game (with some help from the trolls) can't let it go.

No matter how many modules, pieces of equipment, parts of terrain, or whatever that PGI adds to help them...



And feedback from them is constantly making PGI try to. Again and again.

I predict that by next year we will have at least 2 more anti-missile tweaks to the game (most likely in the form of something equippable).

And even with them, people will stilll continue to whine about how OP LRMs are and refuse to equip the counters. Just like increasing the cap timers and adding turrets didn`t decrease the cap-whining in assault or see people return to base, it just say the cappers standing around doing noting for 10x as long while team Derp continues to whine and try to win by attrition 5 miles away from the base they`re in the process of losing.

Like most here, I have no problems with dying to LRMs, even in a Dire Wolf. But I absolutely love teh delicious tears of the cryhards that think soem "star Wars" system should magically shield them from the overall weakest weapon in the game.

IF you`re dying to what you yourself describe as a "no skill" weapon, then what does that tell everyone about your caliber as a player?

Even the kiddies beloved CoD has the "noob tube" (aka M203 grenade launcher). and the situation is entirely analagous. A halfway decent player will rarely if ever get hit by one, much less die to one, but the scrubs are up in arms 24/7 about how OP it is.

You can generally tell how good a player is in MWO specifically by his opinion of LRMs. The weaker he feels they are, the better he probably is, and the inverse is equally true.

Edited by Zerberus, 12 July 2014 - 01:34 PM.

[Mavairo]

CATAPULT CPLT-A1 60 32 28 1.14 54 41 1.32 19,202 42,506 06:49:45

That has an LRM 30 SRM 24 setup.
LRMs are so Op that it caused...........
FANG 50 31 19 1.63 55 29 1.90 12,538 46,840 05:27:59

An inferior win loss rate, an inferior KDR... Even with the SRM 24 as backup weapons, which is possibly the entire reason it has a KDR above 1.1 that it can only eek out 7k more damage with 10 more matches and a staggering hour and twenty minutes more game time in. Yep that's the hallmark of OP alright, they're so OP that they flip the scale around backwards to the point that a Fang will out perform them..even with SRM 24 as a secondary weapon!
A fang that is armed with an AC10, and 2 LPL no less.