556 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

pwnface, on 23 June 2014 - 02:22 AM, said:

People that still think clan mechs are OP are just bad at this game. Learn how to use cover and then learn how to play. Playing ONLY Inner Sphere mechs has been significantly easier since the "clan invasion", I've been averaging 8 1k+ matches a day since the clan invasion started.

I guess skill plays a huge role in this.

IraqiWalker, on 23 June 2014 - 02:04 AM, said:

Pretty sure you're wrong about that.

Here, this'll help

http://mwomercs.com/...e-over-powered/

THIS!!

[pwnface]

Weapons and tech should be balanced based on their highest potential not on players who don't know how to use the available weapons/tech correctly effectively. ie. players that are complaining about LRMs in the current state of balance aren't using cover/ecm/ams/RDM correctly.

[Badgerthej]

Iraqiwalker i'd like you to take note that this is NOT balanced....never will be and I am taking into acount as much calculation as i can being generally poor at maths. but even a dead moose can see that clan is too potent.

you have xl's that dont blow up by side torso death...meaning you have no fear and can just act as normal. sure you cant change alot of your structure, but i've seen what can be done with clan mechs...you have in all essence 1 variant doesnt matter about the different numbers you can change enough of the omnipods to make the mech identical. I have a friend who owns a clan pack and even he said its rediculous what you can fit them with...i've seen the "dire whale" armed with 2 ppc 2 gauss.....thats 60 alpha at long range.

your ppc does 15 damage for the same heat/range.
your large pulse fire almost as far as our er large laser
all your balistics are smaller and you get double ammo

calculations be damned, if you are ever thinking that your mechs aren't broken as hell then you are blind.
the only thing that seems to have been done right though is the burst fire ballistic, I know the clan lrm is weaker overall but it doesnt matter when you can boat almost double the amout of a stalker.

this might make me look shortsighted but for a man who usually pilots a dragon you have officially rendered my mech unplayable with your high power super long range powerhouses.

Edited by Badgerthej, 23 June 2014 - 12:41 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

I want my Clan Enemy OP. All the better when/if we clobber em back to Strana Mechty.

[Atheus]

pwnface, on 23 June 2014 - 02:22 AM, said:

People that still think clan mechs are OP are just bad at this game. Learn how to use cover and then learn how to play. Playing ONLY Inner Sphere mechs has been significantly easier since the "clan invasion", I've been averaging 8 1k+ matches a day since the clan invasion started.

Just curious - why do you say IS mechs need to learn how to use cover? Do you think IS players are just dying more because they suddenly changed their tactics to include running out in the open? This is just some condescending crap you're spouting here.

That aside, it's funny how you assume they're crap players but then also assume that the clan players are the ones preying on them. There's this unstated implication that if you're clan you don't need to learn to use cover - probably because you internally recognize that the clan mechs are the alpha dogs here, and if you don't respect their superiority out in the open you'll just get torn apart.

[Mcgral18]

Badgerthej, on 23 June 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Iraqiwalker i'd like you to take note that this is NOT balanced....never will be and I am taking into acount as much calculation as i can being generally poor at maths. but even a dead moose can see that clan is too potent.

you have xl's that dont blow up by side torso death...meaning you have no fear and can just act as normal. sure you cant change alot of your structure, but i've seen what can be done with clan mechs...you have in all essence 1 variant doesnt matter about the different numbers you can change enough of the omnipods to make the mech identical. I have a friend who owns a clan pack and even he said its rediculous what you can fit them with...i've seen the "dire whale" armed with 2 ppc 2 gauss.....thats 60 alpha at long range.

your ppc does 15 damage for the same heat/range.
your large pulse fire almost as far as our er large laser
all your balistics are smaller and you get double ammo

calculations be damned, if you are ever thinking that your mechs aren't broken as hell then you are blind.
the only thing that seems to have been done right though is the burst fire ballistic, I know the clan lrm is weaker overall but it doesnt matter when you can boat almost double the amout of a stalker.

this might make me look shortsighted but for a man who usually pilots a dragon you have officially rendered my mech unplayable with your high power super long range powerhouses.

Well, if you simply don't care about damage with your fancy Clan XL engine, you'll get CT cored and die just as fast as any IS mech. They mount the same armor and die just as fast.

And while cERPPCs do deal 15 damage, 5 of that is wasted, 2.5 to either side.

Dragons have been dead long before the Clans arrived, and the Dragon Slayer overlords kill Clans just dandily as well. It just so happens that both IS and Clan SRMs are no longer worthless.


Honestly, they are already halfway balanced from my point of view. Tweaking could be done to certain aspects. Same can be said for IS mechs.

[By Dysentery]

Mcgral18, on 23 June 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

...
And while cERPPCs do deal 15 damage, 5 of that is wasted, 2.5 to either side.
...

You might have a point with the lack of pin point damage in regards to Clan ACs.

But in fact the cERPPC is quite a bad example.
The PPC beam is pin point. If you hit, you hit with all 15 damage.

The idea that the splash damage is wasted is misleading. It is applied to the hostile mech.
And if you are aiming for a cherry red CT and hit a side torso you still do damage to the part of the mech you wanted to hit.

I have seen that alot of times as well as limbs getting ripped of due to splash damage.

Yes, 15 point on one hit zone would have been even better. But stating that the 5 additional points of damage are wasted is quite overstating it.

[Powder Puff Pew Pew]

Sean von Steinike, on 19 June 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

That thing is easy to kill. Just don't stand in front of it. It maneuvers like a walrus in the desert.

HAHAHAHAH Absolutely, just like a Gimpy walrus.

[IraqiWalker]

Badgerthej, on 23 June 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Iraqiwalker i'd like you to take note that this is NOT balanced....never will be and I am taking into acount as much calculation as i can being generally poor at maths. but even a dead moose can see that clan is too potent.

you have xl's that dont blow up by side torso death...meaning you have no fear and can just act as normal. sure you cant change alot of your structure, but i've seen what can be done with clan mechs...you have in all essence 1 variant doesnt matter about the different numbers you can change enough of the omnipods to make the mech identical. I have a friend who owns a clan pack and even he said its rediculous what you can fit them with...i've seen the "dire whale" armed with 2 ppc 2 gauss.....thats 60 alpha at long range.

your ppc does 15 damage for the same heat/range.
your large pulse fire almost as far as our er large laser
all your balistics are smaller and you get double ammo

calculations be damned, if you are ever thinking that your mechs aren't broken as hell then you are blind.
the only thing that seems to have been done right though is the burst fire ballistic, I know the clan lrm is weaker overall but it doesnt matter when you can boat almost double the amout of a stalker.

this might make me look shortsighted but for a man who usually pilots a dragon you have officially rendered my mech unplayable with your high power super long range powerhouses.

I'm sorry, but you've fallen into the same trap that many players here have fallen into. You see one part of the picture, but miss out on the whole.

Yes, clan mechs have XLs that don't die from side torso destruction. To counter that, clan mechs have some of the biggest CT hitboxes possible. Also, the engines are fixed, clan mechs aren't allowed to choose the engine sizes, and worst of all, there are 14 structure slots that are static, not dynamic, and can stop you from mounting weapons where you want them mounted.

The only weapons that have a good advantage for clan mechs are the lasers, in range. Their longer burn time is it's own problem. All of the clan arsenal's weapons rely on you facing your opponent without twisting away, causing the clan mech's CT problem to be even more pronounced.

If a clan mech decides to mount double the launchers of a Stalker (I'd love to see that) The ammo issues alone would stop it from being anything more than a big paperweight. I tried running a 5xLRM10 Summoner. All it took was 2 trial firestarters to make sure almost all 50 of my missiles never saw a target.

The Dragon has always been a good mech, and it has not been invalidated by clan mechs. There are still no clan equivalents. The closes to it is the T-Wolf, and it has a CT hitbox bigger than the Dragon's CT+ST.

Khajja took out his flame for a few drops a couple nights ago, here's what he did:

Spoiler

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 22 June 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

Took my flame today. I think it was 3-4 kills and 900+ damage. In one try.

IS is clearly dead.

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 23 June 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

Correction, 2 kills.

All clan weapons are penalized by ghost heat scales that make even the 2 slot DHS almost useless. IS small lasers have no ghost heat penalty. Clan small lasers trigger ghost heat at 7.

All clan weapons fire is Damage over time (other than the one Daishi build that everyone complains about, because they keep charging the daishi head first), and not even their poptarts are good at PP FLD. I will never pick a T-Wolf over a cataphract-3D, or a Dragon slayer for jump sniping. It's just completely inferior to both mechs in that role.

The pods also come with all kinds of quircks, some positive (like the Direwolf prime side torsos, which have no weapons but increase torso twist speed by 10%), or negative (like the T-Wolf S getting 10% more heat damage, or the Daishi arms increasing the cycle time of energy weapons even more than what it already was)

The Clan ERPPC generates 15 heat, for 10 damage. Yes the other 5 is dealt to the mech, unless that mech twisted and you hit the arm, and 2.5 of it just magically disappears. Even if you hit a location on the mech, that 5 damage didn't go where you wanted it to go.

Clans seem powerful on paper. Not in practice.

You want to see OP. Let me mount an XL250 in my Daishi. Or let me mount an XL 325 in a T-Wolf. THEN, you'd see OP, and I would agree with you 100%.

So far the only complaining I've heard has been about the Daishi, and if a pilot gets killed by a Daishi, 9 times out of 10, it is their own fault. The only time when it isn't is when they just run into one while turning a corner.

The mech is too slow to maneuver properly, even with full elites. I've been piloting the Daishi almost exclusively so far, and have almost mastered all three variants. Do you know what my match experience has been so far?

it's 3 scenarios:
1- No enemy mechs spot me, and I use cover properly, and manage to breach the enemy line because they all decide to stand in front of me.

2- A mech spots me, I get LRMed to death 30 seconds into the match, and die dealing less than 100 damage (sometimes even 0)

3- A mech spots, it's a light, maybe it has a buddy or two, or maybe it's solo. Either way. It gets behind me, and I die dealing 0 damage, 30 seconds into the match.

My most hilarious death was a flamer locust, flamer with 3 or 4 MLs. Killed the hell out of me, without any retaliation from me.


As long as you move sideways when facing a Daishi, you're probably going to win. I out maneuver it in an Orion with a STD 300. Plus it's CT is so huge, there is almost no way to miss it.

Don't get me wrong. The Daishi is a terrifying monster. It is designed to do one thing, and that is to kill whatever is in front of it. That's the only thing it can do. So if you move to it's side, the Daishi is toast.

The meta hasn't changed yet. There is a bigger shift to brawling now, because of the SRM fix, and some people being suicidaly happy charging the enemy to hit them with SRMs right in the face. However, the IS poptarts are still the undisputed kings of the game, and in a tournament match, I highly doubt many players will **** to clan mech teams. Not when they have a DS that moves better than some heavies, has the entire left side as a shield, and pops a 30-40 PP alpha into whatever it likes at extreme ranges.

I have friends with the clan pack who say it's OP. That's because they only look at damage numbers from weapons, and don't pay attention to all the mechanics in the game. It's missing the forest for all the trees.

[Atheus]

IraqiWalker, on 23 June 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

Spoiler

I'm sorry, but you've fallen into the same trap that many players here have fallen into. You see one part of the picture, but miss out on the whole.

Yes, clan mechs have XLs that don't die from side torso destruction. To counter that, clan mechs have some of the biggest CT hitboxes possible. Also, the engines are fixed, clan mechs aren't allowed to choose the engine sizes, and worst of all, there are 14 structure slots that are static, not dynamic, and can stop you from mounting weapons where you want them mounted.

The only weapons that have a good advantage for clan mechs are the lasers, in range. Their longer burn time is it's own problem. All of the clan arsenal's weapons rely on you facing your opponent without twisting away, causing the clan mech's CT problem to be even more pronounced.

If a clan mech decides to mount double the launchers of a Stalker (I'd love to see that) The ammo issues alone would stop it from being anything more than a big paperweight. I tried running a 5xLRM10 Summoner. All it took was 2 trial firestarters to make sure almost all 50 of my missiles never saw a target.

The Dragon has always been a good mech, and it has not been invalidated by clan mechs. There are still no clan equivalents. The closes to it is the T-Wolf, and it has a CT hitbox bigger than the Dragon's CT+ST.

Khajja took out his flame for a few drops a couple nights ago, here's what he did:

Spoiler

All clan weapons are penalized by ghost heat scales that make even the 2 slot DHS almost useless. IS small lasers have no ghost heat penalty. Clan small lasers trigger ghost heat at 7.

All clan weapons fire is Damage over time (other than the one Daishi build that everyone complains about, because they keep charging the daishi head first), and not even their poptarts are good at PP FLD. I will never pick a T-Wolf over a cataphract-3D, or a Dragon slayer for jump sniping. It's just completely inferior to both mechs in that role.

The pods also come with all kinds of quircks, some positive (like the Direwolf prime side torsos, which have no weapons but increase torso twist speed by 10%), or negative (like the T-Wolf S getting 10% more heat damage, or the Daishi arms increasing the cycle time of energy weapons even more than what it already was)

The Clan ERPPC generates 15 heat, for 10 damage. Yes the other 5 is dealt to the mech, unless that mech twisted and you hit the arm, and 2.5 of it just magically disappears. Even if you hit a location on the mech, that 5 damage didn't go where you wanted it to go.

Clans seem powerful on paper. Not in practice.

You want to see OP. Let me mount an XL250 in my Daishi. Or let me mount an XL 325 in a T-Wolf. THEN, you'd see OP, and I would agree with you 100%.

So far the only complaining I've heard has been about the Daishi, and if a pilot gets killed by a Daishi, 9 times out of 10, it is their own fault. The only time when it isn't is when they just run into one while turning a corner.

The mech is too slow to maneuver properly, even with full elites. I've been piloting the Daishi almost exclusively so far, and have almost mastered all three variants. Do you know what my match experience has been so far?

it's 3 scenarios:
1- No enemy mechs spot me, and I use cover properly, and manage to breach the enemy line because they all decide to stand in front of me.

2- A mech spots me, I get LRMed to death 30 seconds into the match, and die dealing less than 100 damage (sometimes even 0)

3- A mech spots, it's a light, maybe it has a buddy or two, or maybe it's solo. Either way. It gets behind me, and I die dealing 0 damage, 30 seconds into the match.

My most hilarious death was a flamer locust, flamer with 3 or 4 MLs. Killed the hell out of me, without any retaliation from me.


As long as you move sideways when facing a Daishi, you're probably going to win. I out maneuver it in an Orion with a STD 300. Plus it's CT is so huge, there is almost no way to miss it.

Don't get me wrong. The Daishi is a terrifying monster. It is designed to do one thing, and that is to kill whatever is in front of it. That's the only thing it can do. So if you move to it's side, the Daishi is toast.

The meta hasn't changed yet. There is a bigger shift to brawling now, because of the SRM fix, and some people being suicidaly happy charging the enemy to hit them with SRMs right in the face. However, the IS poptarts are still the undisputed kings of the game, and in a tournament match, I highly doubt many players will **** to clan mech teams. Not when they have a DS that moves better than some heavies, has the entire left side as a shield, and pops a 30-40 PP alpha into whatever it likes at extreme ranges.

I have friends with the clan pack who say it's OP. That's because they only look at damage numbers from weapons, and don't pay attention to all the mechanics in the game. It's missing the forest for all the trees.

This is pretty much all anecdote, and you finish with "I have friends with the clan pack who say it's OP. That's because they only look at damage numbers from weapons, and don't pay attention to all the mechanics in the game. It's missing the forest for all the trees."

One question:
Have your friends who own the clan pack also played the game, or have they just been fooling around with mech lab and some calculators this whole time?

Oh one more question:
Why is your anecdotal evidence better than theirs?

Last question:
You are aware that players have looked at all the weapon stats (not just damage values) and still have concerns, so why do you go out of your way to characterize your skeptical friends as knuckle-draggers who haven't considered the whole picture? Are they really, or are you just being unfair to their analysis?

[IraqiWalker]

Atheus, on 23 June 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

This is pretty much all anecdote, and you finish with "I have friends with the clan pack who say it's OP. That's because they only look at damage numbers from weapons, and don't pay attention to all the mechanics in the game. It's missing the forest for all the trees."

One question:
Have your friends who own the clan pack also played the game, or have they just been fooling around with mech lab and some calculators this whole time?

Oh one more question:
Why is your anecdotal evidence better than theirs?

Last question:
You are aware that players have looked at all the weapon stats (not just damage values) and still have concerns, so why do you go out of your way to characterize your skeptical friends as knuckle-draggers who haven't considered the whole picture? Are they really, or are you just being unfair to their analysis?

1-The only anecdotal piece is khajja's run. So not "ALL" is anecdotal.

2-They play the game, much like many others. However, their mechanical understanding isn't the best out there. Just because they're my friends, doesn't mean they are infallible. I also have friends who say clan mechs are actually under-powered. I disagree with them too. They are underpowered compared to the actual clan mehcs in BT, but in this game, they are just fine. Some tweaking might be needed, but nothing stands out as glaringly powerful.

My friends did the same thing plenty here are doing. Focus on one aspect, or one number and declare everything OP. They're wrong. As for why my anecdotal evidence is better? I never said it was. I don't remember presenting anecdotal evidence from a lot of my friends.

In fact, only Khajja was cited by me, so far (unless I forgot someone else), and he is a much better pilot than I am. His numbers in that Flame speak for themselves. I would actually say, his anecdotal evidence is better than mine. I can't hit numbers that high with a Dragon, even though it's a good mech, and I know how to pilot it. I'm just not THAT good with it, and it's my fault, not the mech's, I do much better in lights than in almost any other weight class, and that's because lights are my specialty. I did not play a mech heavier than a medium until the phoenix mechs arrived and I got the Thunderbolt. Still haven't elited than one out yet. The Orion has been the really awesome heavy mech for me. I don't have a 4.0 KDR in it, but it's doing it's job, and since the SRM buff, and clan release, my numbers with it have gone up. I'm really good with lights, and assaults, heavies have been the weight that experimented with the least, and I can't wait to master the Orion chassis.
I'm better with mediums than I am with heavies, btw.

As for your last question:

yes, players have looked at all (1)weapon stats (firing time, cycle time, heat, damage, weight, slots, range, and ghost heat linking), and do have concerns. However, the ones that actually looked at weapon stats, (2)firing rates, (3)hitboxes (both layout and size), (4)crit slots, (5)speeds, (6)movement rates, (7)hardpoint layout (pods included), (8)equipment, and it's impact, and (9) modules and their own effects, aren't yelling that the end times are nigh, and in fact say that very few minor tweaks need to be done.

The ones that looked at only 1 aspect out of 9 (that's 11.11111, out of a 100) are freaking out, and causing too much ruckus, without full understanding. While the ones that considered the whole picture are saying "some tweaking here and there needs to be done, but all in all, it's pretty balanced, and nothing is OP".

Some things might be abit more efficient right now (like the ERSL), but nothing is Over Powered, not the mechs or the equipment. There's a difference between OP, and "this thing is working a bit better than it actually should"


oh, and as for the last part, No, I'm not being unfair to their analysis, after talking with a few of them, they really didn't consider the whole picture, and still focus onluy on the weapons and their damage. I intentionally ran a 2Gauss 3ERPPC Daishi yesterday, to prove my point. They were complaining about the 2xGauss 2xERPPC being OP. I gave them the roided up version of it. Stripped 30 points of armor from each leg, and walked out with a 60 point alpha (75 total damage). Got cought by a spider, and a jenner, and died in 20 seconds, on the first drop, dealing exactly 0 damage.

Next drop. I cored out an Atlas with 2 alphas. It took me almost 20+ seconds to launch the second alpha because a single alpha puts me at around 95% heat. Mind you, I cored him out. I didn't actually kill him, just stripped his armor.

The one after that. I ran into a 2 man poptart team (2 cataphract 3D). They proceeded to rip me to shreds in seconds, with me only dealing some damage to them, since I couldn't fire my PPCs after the opening salvo.

The one after that, I got 500 damage (measly considering I got 3+ games in a row with 800+ in my LBX20 set up), and 3 kills.

The one after that , my entire lance decided to move at my pace, and protect me (at one point our Atlas stepped in front of me to catch some of the enemy return fire, and give me a chance to cool down), and with all four of us moving at 53 Kph, we managed to destroy the enemy team, and took out 5 hostiles by ourselves by the end. I got 700 damage, but our team still lost in the end, because we had an entire lance sitting behind guarding one mech. (our entire team had a total of 8 kills)

Next drop, I turned a corner into an enemy Atlas and Battlemaster 1-D with UAC5+2xAC2s. Suffice to say, I fired one alpha, 1 more dual gauss shot, then got killed. 100 tons. 60 (75 if you count splash) point alpha mech,

and only about 300 damage per match for these drops (and that's because I either got lucky, or had to have an entire lance backing me up), and that's with full elites, and Advanced zoom. My COM-2D averages 400-500, by the way.

My performance with a 2xGauss 2xERPPC isn't that much better to be honest. There's about an 80-100 average damage increase. Yeah, the Daishi can mount a lot of guns, but if you move to the side, you should be fine. If you are in a light, it's pretty much a cakewalk against most clan mechs, and especially against Dire Wolves.

[Alexii]

Op, some clan mechs are definitely OP. The doggies. Timber , Dire. But IMO PGI wont fix em just yet. Ppl payed good money for em and removing their uber rule will cause undue stress and may cost pgi money. So for now sit tight or take a break. I will keep playing a bit, just changing role from damage dealer to support. I can still do that good. ECMs , AMS FTW.

[IraqiWalker]

Alexii, on 23 June 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

Op, some clan mechs are definitely OP. The doggies. Timber , Dire. But IMO PGI wont fix em just yet. Ppl payed good money for em and removing their uber rule will cause undue stress and may cost pgi money. So for now sit tight or take a break. I will keep playing a bit, just changing role from damage dealer to support. I can still do that good. ECMs , AMS FTW.

I dare you to find one clan mech that can stand in the open and survive for more than 10 seconds after being spotted. Even a Daishi with max armor, will still crumble and die. I should know. I've killed and piloted that mech plenty of times by now since the PTS. My Orion has had more kills recently because of all these T-Wolf pilots that get over-confident and brawl with me, only to be greeted by a House Davion approved AC 20. They do try to focus my Ballistic spot (the smart ones do, at least), however, in the end, that burst shot wins.

IS mechs can build burst damage builds far better than any clan mech can hope to dream of. However, plenty of people don't seem to utilize that. You're not supposed to stand there an slug it out with them. you're supposed to hit them, and disappear. They can put lots of damage downrange IF you let them, or you could unload your full salvo on them, and then twist away and watch them waste a third or so of their potential damage into the rocks behind you.

[Atheus]

IraqiWalker, on 23 June 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

yes, players have looked at all (1)weapon stats (firing time, cycle time, heat, damage, weight, slots, range, and ghost heat linking), and do have concerns. However, the ones that actually looked at weapon stats, (2)firing rates, (3)hitboxes (both layout and size), (4)crit slots, (5)speeds, (6)movement rates, (7)hardpoint layout (pods included), (8)equipment, and it's impact, and (9) modules and their own effects, aren't yelling that the end times are nigh, and in fact say that very few minor tweaks need to be done.

The ones that looked at only 1 aspect out of 9 (that's 11.11111, out of a 100) are freaking out, and causing too much ruckus, without full understanding. While the ones that considered the whole picture are saying "some tweaking here and there needs to be done, but all in all, it's pretty balanced, and nothing is OP".

Even when you're trying to be fair, you're being unfair. I have absolutely looked at all reliable data available to us as (free) players with the clan release. I have never looked at weapon data without looking at all the columns in each row. I have pretty much every weapon's MWO stats memorized. If someone mischaracterizes a weapon's performance, I will be able to spot it right away, but just to be certain I tend to double check smurfy before I comment if there's any degree of uncertainty. I can also identify many other posters who feel clan tech is strong enough to provide a measurable advantage in gameplay who have a similar grasp of the data. I played in game, and killed many clan mechs myself. I do not feel that I suffered an unusual number of deaths, but I also did not expect to, since I knew clan were dealing with new mechs and I had plenty of clan on my own team which would offset any imbalance between the teams. I am familiar with the complaints clan players have with their hit boxes, and their inability to swap engines. I have watched video of clan mechs being absolutely devastating, and being absolutely mediocre. In other words I have about as clear a picture as a player can have of the clan tech released as one can reasonably be expected to have without personally owning any clan mechs.

My opinion is that "the sky is falling". My opinion is that the clan release is crystal clear as day "Pay to Win". I think that PGI is doing the clan invasion like this purely because they needed the money more than they needed to keep the low revenue generating players, probably making some sort of calculation based on the expected life of the game. Regardless, I began rolling my eyes at this clan release back in December or whatever it was when they started the pre-orders for clan mechs, and frankly I pretty much stopped playing then aside from the occasional visit. My eyes rolled out my damned ears when I saw their mech chassis release schedule extending all the way out to Movember [sic]. I was shaking my head when I saw the weapon stats, then finally when I came in to do a few test rounds against the clan, I was laughing out loud when I saw that the Clan mechs were mixed in with both teams.

This is my opinion, and I am utterly confident it has nothing to do with a misunderstanding, or my failing to take something into consideration since I could fairly accurately reproduce Smurfy's site from memory if I needed to (excluding useless info like the weight of an XL 100 engine). Of all the conversations with the Clan defenders of these forums I've never seen anyone point something out that either I didn't already know, or didn't recognize as factually inaccurate or intentionally misleading, and there have been tons of defenders running around with silly ideas about simple to verify things like weapon stats.

So no, you do not get to claim that players cognizant of all PGI's efforts to balance the clan tech they released behind a pay wall can not still wholeheartedly disapprove, because I exist, and I know I'm not the only one. I won't be here after today though, because I've gotten to the point where I realize that while I may be changing the perspective of some players here or I may not, PGI had already lost all credibility to me long ago, and there's pretty much nothing that they can do to recover it. Maybe I'll come back in Movember [sic], but I do know PGI has gotten their last penny from me.

[Sephlock]

Atheus, on 23 June 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

My opinion is that "the sky is falling". My opinion is that the clan release is crystal clear as day "Pay to Win".

That explains why the Clan mechs are CRUSHING the IS mechs on the battlefield.

...

?

[Sir DeathsHead]

yup they are very OP.

[Badgerthej]

ok it seems like i'm missing out on something here as every time i've fought any cloan mech what happens is i hammer the hell out of it with everything i've got and its armour goes.....yellow and i get smashed...if their CT is so big why the hell do i never actually get consistent damage on it?

I've dueled many clan mechs in all chassis types from my centurion to my dragon to my atlas and THEY always win regardless of me slapping those bulbous noses. the only way i end up actually defeating them is if i have a happy little helper who adds more damage to the fight.

I'm not a poor pilot (but everyone will just say that I am bad and should not complain anyway so this will never be taken seriously), most of my defeats are against groups when my lance finds the rest of the enemy team. but when i do get to duel one on one its actually mostly mediums and the odd timberwolf, all of which systematically take me apart no matter what mech I pilot. my complaint isnt about the mechs in general...i've killed my fair share of clanners its the guns.....if IS had those cannons i'd still be complaining.
also when it comes to jump snipers adders and kitfoxes and summoners and timberwolves and shall i go on, any of your jump capable mechs do it....i'll admit they probably dont do it as well as IS poptarts but they DO put out more damage even if a tiny fraction is spread out, and that is all that count.

everyone says that they arent broken because of the restricted fittings, but if you're working your argument off that then you are looking to fit it like a powergamer and got dissapointed by the fact that you couldnt. those fixed structure points arent as fixed as you think when you can change the weapons hardpoints and the location they come in free-ing up space in the longrun.

my true oppinion, all the IS complain about your broken ass mechs having too much firepower and you complain about IS mechs actually having customisability....

[Atheus]

Sir DeathsHead, on 23 June 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

yup they are very OP.

What sort of loadout were you using?

[IraqiWalker]

Badgerthej, on 24 June 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

ok it seems like i'm missing out on something here as every time i've fought any cloan mech what happens is i hammer the hell out of it with everything i've got and its armour goes.....yellow and i get smashed...if their CT is so big why the hell do i never actually get consistent damage on it?

I've dueled many clan mechs in all chassis types from my centurion to my dragon to my atlas and THEY always win regardless of me slapping those bulbous noses. the only way i end up actually defeating them is if i have a happy little helper who adds more damage to the fight.

I'm not a poor pilot (but everyone will just say that I am bad and should not complain anyway so this will never be taken seriously), most of my defeats are against groups when my lance finds the rest of the enemy team. but when i do get to duel one on one its actually mostly mediums and the odd timberwolf, all of which systematically take me apart no matter what mech I pilot. my complaint isnt about the mechs in general...i've killed my fair share of clanners its the guns.....if IS had those cannons i'd still be complaining.
also when it comes to jump snipers adders and kitfoxes and summoners and timberwolves and shall i go on, any of your jump capable mechs do it....i'll admit they probably dont do it as well as IS poptarts but they DO put out more damage even if a tiny fraction is spread out, and that is all that count.

everyone says that they arent broken because of the restricted fittings, but if you're working your argument off that then you are looking to fit it like a powergamer and got dissapointed by the fact that you couldnt. those fixed structure points arent as fixed as you think when you can change the weapons hardpoints and the location they come in free-ing up space in the longrun.

my true oppinion, all the IS complain about your broken ass mechs having too much firepower and you complain about IS mechs actually having customisability....

You're not missing anything.

My question is this: what is your preferred weapons loadout? Do you go energy heavy? When you dueled these mechs, what existing damage did you have on your mech? Because I've had little trouble dealing with them, and I mostly go into close range brawls against clan mechs, where my AC 20 (in the case of the Orion) gives me the upper hand.


As for jump sniping, the clan mechs have only 2 mechs that can viably do it: The Summoner, and the Timberwolf. Both of them are mediocre on a good day, and they actually put out less damage than your standard Dragon Slayer does, even if you count the splash damage from the ERPPC. The main problems are as follows:

1- All clan mechs suffer from very low-slung arms, meaning they have to expose too much while in the air to try and poptart.
2- Awkward hardpoint placement (especially for the summoner)
3- Inability to use anything but ERPPCs to poptart, which are extremely hot, and can't use regular PPCs, or ACs.
4- Summoner has fixed JJs, meaning wasted tonnage (on top of it having little pod space compared to other clan heavies, like the T-Wolf in this case), and extra heat to deal with.
5- Nova can't do Poptarting reliably, as it will be able to fit one ERPPC only, if it wants to jump more than once a day (exaggerated hyperbole, but you get my point)
6- Kitfox suffers from the same problems as the Nova, with a worse heat condition since it has even less tonnage to spare.

There is not a single clan poptart that can compete with a Dragon Slayer or Cataphract 3D. At best, they are equivalent to a TBT poptart, and we see one of those, once every 2487 years now.

As for your last opinion, I somewhat agree in that that is the main points both sides usually focus on. However, clan mechs have more firepower IF you stand there and try to slug it out with them in a stand up fight. Which, regardless of whether it's a clan mech or not, you should never do. Always move, always hit and run. The very epitome of that philosophy is the poptart meta plaguing us right now (though to a lesser extent now that SRMs and new mechs are on the field)

Even if we had no clan mechs, and these weapons were introduced to a specific group of IS mechs, people would still complain the exact same way.

Also, to be specific, balance isn't making everything operate the same way. No, absolutely not. It is by creating a system where choices matter. The trade-offs for clan mechs, and IS mechs, make them balanced. Otherwise we all might as well just pilot only atlases, and shoot only medium lasers. Because that's what some people think balance is supposed to be.

The pros and cons right now, put both types of mechs in a good position. I actually have to think, and figure out which mech I want, for which purpose. If clan mechs were so OP, the choice would always be clan mech.

The only place where that is somewhat true for me is with the Daishi, and that is because it plays to my style when piloting assaults (and is a lot of fun and more challenging than my nimble BLRs), since I'm not a good assault pilot, and can't afford an Atlas at the moment, with all my C-Bills spent on customizing and upgrading the new clan mechs I've gotten.

(I still need to get 2 more Orion variants, and then move on to the Atlas)

[Sir DeathsHead]

@ atheus

3 srm 6 , 6 med lasers.