148 replies to this topic

[Killer Koala 72]

1. You tell people to clam up - and then respond to their trolling...kinda defeats the original purpose of this thread doesn't it?

2. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, and has the right to voice said opinion - to deny that right is well wrong...am i right?

3 If you don't like the opinion DONT RESPOND to it, ignore it, the less attention it gets the faster it dissappears from the forums!!!

4. I didn't buy the Clan package, why - none of your business - the easiest way to .."nerf" clan mechs - make those that have chosen the clans as their faction, play as if they were clanners - Zellbrigen or however the hell its spelt - Clans were supposed to be all about 1 v 1 combat, least amount of units required to take an objective etc, etc. Why not reward those that as clanners play like clanners should, and "punish" those that don't?

[IraqiWalker]

Killer Koala 72, on 24 June 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

1. You tell people to clam up - and then respond to their trolling...kinda defeats the original purpose of this thread doesn't it?

2. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, and has the right to voice said opinion - to deny that right is well wrong...am i right?

3 If you don't like the opinion DONT RESPOND to it, ignore it, the less attention it gets the faster it dissappears from the forums!!!

4. I didn't buy the Clan package, why - none of your business - the easiest way to .."nerf" clan mechs - make those that have chosen the clans as their faction, play as if they were clanners - Zellbrigen or however the hell its spelt - Clans were supposed to be all about 1 v 1 combat, least amount of units required to take an objective etc, etc. Why not reward those that as clanners play like clanners should, and "punish" those that don't?

1- It's the nature of the forums

2- Just because they have the right to an opinion, doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to tell them to clam up. Also, just because people can have an opinion, doesn't mean they're not wrong.

3- That one can be fine. However, a better thing to do since some people repeat the same dribble is respond, then just copy paste the reply to every thread where they post the same stupid posts.

4- That's gonna be coming in CW if I'm not mistaken. Although, to implement 10v12, they would have to implement proper clan mechs. Which means buffing them. People are moaning and crying right now, and the clan mechs are actually balanced. Wait until we get actual clan mechs running around.

[Killer Koala 72]

Awesome reply Iraqi - and im not being sarcastic at all. I'm one of those whose knee jerk reaction was OMFGWTFBBQPAWNAGE when the first clanner fried my mech, BUT, unlike most of those QQ'ing I went wow crispy ..wait a minute...that freak that pawnt my ass was almost dead after I landed a few shots.

What I was basically tryin to say was okay is frustrating seein people go OMGW"D ZE CLANS ARE GODLIKE MACHINES OF DEEATTH!!! but sometimes its better to say nothing an hv a bit of faith that PGI are watchin the stats.

Righto im off to get anewkeyboard asthis one seems to be not accepting my FRIGGEN KEY PRESSES...****** cheap chinese made junk..no offense to any chinese pilos reading intended

[IraqiWalker]

Killer Koala 72, on 24 June 2014 - 11:47 PM, said:

Awesome reply Iraqi - and im not being sarcastic at all. I'm one of those whose knee jerk reaction was OMFGWTFBBQPAWNAGE when the first clanner fried my mech, BUT, unlike most of those QQ'ing I went wow crispy ..wait a minute...that freak that pawnt my ass was almost dead after I landed a few shots.

What I was basically tryin to say was okay is frustrating seein people go OMGW"D ZE CLANS ARE GODLIKE MACHINES OF DEEATTH!!! but sometimes its better to say nothing an hv a bit of faith that PGI are watchin the stats.

Righto im off to get anewkeyboard asthis one seems to be not accepting my FRIGGEN KEY PRESSES...****** cheap chinese made junk..no offense to any chinese pilos reading intended

I understand what you are saying. I also think you would be a fun person to be on comms with. Just from reading this reply. Good luck with the keyboard.

[Diranar]

Some of you should get banned, just for your insulting writestyle...its funny to see, how people glitch in insulting if they have no facts left to mention. just my 2 cents on the last 2 pages...

Edited by Diranar, 25 June 2014 - 12:07 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Diranar, on 25 June 2014 - 12:06 AM, said:

Some of you should get banned, just for your insulting writestyle...its funny to see, how people glitch in insulting if they have no facts left to mention. just my 2 cents on the last 2 pages...

I can understand that.

The problem is that you came into the middle of an argument that has probably spanned several threads. (I know I've seen AT LEAST 6 people here in those other threads). Hence why frustration levels get really high. Compounded by the fact that one side has been giving evidence(people arguing that the clan mechs aren't OP, and at worst need some simple tweaking), while the other side is just bringing incomplete arguments that they refuse to acknowledge as being lacking in information.

However, people should be more professional. SHOULD being the operative word, we are all humans after all, and some people have lower breaking points than others. The OP is asking for one simple thing. For everyone to stop yapping for a couple of months, until the game stabilizes, and THEN people can yap. A very simple request, that is also quite logical and fairly reasonable. However, some people refuse to understand that, and keep on whining with no end in sight for their flawed logic and complaining.

You see. I would gladly stop posting in the forums that aren't the "New Player Help" one. IF people stop posting these flawed threads and posts, and arguments that have no leg to stand on. I would stop. Honest. However, as long as the bullets keep flying. I will personally keep finding as many flawed posts as possible, and argue them into the ground.

I try not to become insulting. However, after repeating the very EXACT (and I mean EXACT, almost word for word) seven times in a row. My fuse starts getting short, and I try to keep calm, but every now and then, someone manages to break the world record for stupidity, and that can set me off.

[Livewyr]

Corbenik, on 20 June 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

Teamwork is OP lets Nerf that some more D:

Is that not what enforcing Zell does?

[Corbenik]

Livewyr, on 26 June 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

Is that not what enforcing Zell does?

But Zell can't be Enforced with all the CoD kids with itchy trigger fingers lol

[Cimarb]

Corbenik, on 26 June 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

But Zell can't be Enforced with all the CoD kids with itchy trigger fingers lol

It can easily be enforced, actually. All you have to do is penalize a Clan player that fires first on an enemy before their current target is dead. The "tag" system, like in most MMOs, assigns the kill to the Clan player that first shoots it. If the "tagged" mech is still alive when the Clan player attacks another mech, they lose all points/cbills/score related to that mech and get a "zelbrigen" penalty similar to a team kill. The only exception is if the Clan player is fired upon by the other enemy first, at which time time the "tag" is added to the new enemy as well.

Summary:
Clan pilot 1 shoots enemy 1 - enemy 1 is tagged by Clan pilot 1
Clan pilot 1 shoots enemy 2 - Clan pilot 1 earns no reward for any damage on enemy 2 and gets 10,000 cbill penalty
Clan pilot 1 is shot by enemy 3, while enemy 1 is still functional - Clan pilot 1 earns full reward for enemies 1 and 3, but still none for 2

Easy peasy

[Fut]

1453 R, on 20 June 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

You keep the Power Glove outta this!

... and I'll keep the Power Glove outta you!

[Corbenik]

Cimarb, on 27 June 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

It can easily be enforced, actually. All you have to do is penalize a Clan player that fires first on an enemy before their current target is dead. The "tag" system, like in most MMOs, assigns the kill to the Clan player that first shoots it. If the "tagged" mech is still alive when the Clan player attacks another mech, they lose all points/cbills/score related to that mech and get a "zelbrigen" penalty similar to a team kill. The only exception is if the Clan player is fired upon by the other enemy first, at which time time the "tag" is added to the new enemy as well.

Summary:
Clan pilot 1 shoots enemy 1 - enemy 1 is tagged by Clan pilot 1
Clan pilot 1 shoots enemy 2 - Clan pilot 1 earns no reward for any damage on enemy 2 and gets 10,000 cbill penalty
Clan pilot 1 is shot by enemy 3, while enemy 1 is still functional - Clan pilot 1 earns full reward for enemies 1 and 3, but still none for 2

Easy peasy

no but i meant with the IS/Clan mix can't penalize the IS those where the ones i meant to call the Cod itchy trigger guys .

[Cimarb]

Corbenik, on 27 June 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

no but i meant with the IS/Clan mix can't penalize the IS those where the ones i meant to call the Cod itchy trigger guys .

All depends on whether you are going to UNbalance the Clan tech or not. If Clan tech is significantly better, introduce zelbrigen to offset it along with tonnage adjustments (or BV).

[Suko]

Holy crap. The elitism on these forums has gone through the roof since clans hit. I suppose these pro-clan people could all just be role-playing trueborn clan warriors. Those guys act like arseholes to everyone and claim it's "all skill" that allows them to win. If so, great job on the roleplaying.

[IraqiWalker]

ShadowVFX, on 27 June 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Holy crap. The elitism on these forums has gone through the roof since clans hit. I suppose these pro-clan people could all just be role-playing trueborn clan warriors. Those guys act like arseholes to everyone and claim it's "all skill" that allows them to win. If so, great job on the roleplaying.

I wish both points you made weren't fully true.

However, to be honest, a lot of the clan players can be elitist. That doesn't mean they are wrong about the clan mechs being balanced.

The main reason this thread, and many others like it have sprung up, is because of the idiotic calls to nerf clans because they are OP. That on it's own could be understood, the problem is that the only arguments given so far have been either purely idiotic, or done with no knowledge whatsoever of how the clan tech functions.

Then there is another segment of arguments that are clearly skill based. For example, torso twisting is not an easy skill to learn, and in fact separates the chaff from the wheat. Those that can't torso twist and don't know how to do hit and run tactics will view clan tech as very OP. While those that can do both things properly, will have no problem.

My DWF will be able to deal roughly 94 points of damage to a target if they stare at it for 5 seconds straight. If they move even an inch to the left, or right, Or just move ANYWHERE, other than straight at me, 50% of that will not hit them, and the rest will be spread across multiple sections. In fact it will be as weak as 9ML HBK hitting with just the hunch.

However, if they stand in front of me, and try to have a slug fest with my DWF, They will die within 2 alphas. I've killed many clan assaults (Ginormous CTs) with that set up, because they have to face me down, and unless they are running the same set up, or one full of UACs (that didn't jam), they will die within 5-6 seconds.

The whole point is to hit and run against them, many people don't get that.

The biggest real reason for the cries is actually that the clans shifted the gameplay and added new elements, and many people are running what they are used to, and refuse to adapt, causing them to suffer. It's all a matter of adaptation, because as far as practice goes. Clans and IS are very balanced.

[Kitane]

After getting more and more matches in, I don't believe Clans are OP. They die as quickly and their damage output isn't that much different. IS mechs can field builds that can compete with Clan mechs and crush them.

Meta tryhards can now look the other way, because I am going to describe mid-Elo experience.
Light mechs as well, they have unique circumstances.

The problem is that IS mechs are forced to build their machines with Clan busting in mind, otherwise they are at much bigger disadvantage than before. There is huge pressure on our machines to go FLD meta or abuse SRMs/LRMs, because IS balanced builds, dakka boats and other sustained DPS builds are very much outclassed by similar Clan builds.

These builds are no longer at disadvantage just against meta builds, they are now also at disadvantage against majority of Clan mechs.

tl;dr;
After the patch, IS mechs offer less viable and semi-viable builds than before and are under increased pressure to focus on one area to stay viable. So called "fun" builds are facing much harder opposition than before.

Edited by Kitane, 28 June 2014 - 01:45 PM.

[1453 R]

Kitane, on 28 June 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

After getting more and more matches in, I don't believe Clans are OP. They die as quickly and their damage output isn't that much different. IS mechs can field builds that can compete with Clan mechs and crush them.

Meta tryhards can now look the other way, because I am going to describe mid-Elo experience.
Light mechs as well, they have unique circumstances.

The problem is that IS mechs are forced to build their machines with Clan busting in mind, otherwise they are at much bigger disadvantage than before. There is huge pressure on our machines to go FLD meta or abuse SRMs/LRMs, because IS balanced builds, dakka boats and other sustained DPS builds are very much outclassed by similar Clan builds.

These builds are no longer at disadvantage just against meta builds, they are now also at disadvantage against majority of Clan mechs.

tl;dr;
After the patch, IS mechs offer less viable and semi-viable builds than before and are under increased pressure to focus on one area to stay viable. So called "fun" builds are facing much harder opposition than before.

On the other hand, Clan machines attempting to focus on spike alpha damage over DPS are generally held to be at a significant disadvantage against Inner Sphere spike builds. It's a give-and-take balancing act, and the other thing none of these idiot "CLANS OP PRANA PLZ NERF" people are thinking about, while they're screaming for Clans to be instantly nerfed straight into the ground in one shot, is that this initial balancing for the things is not final. Piranha will be making tweaks and adjustments as they go. Normally I'd be worried about their rather infamous, ahh...inaccuracy?...with the nerf gun, but the overall polish and excellence of the Clan release has me hopeful.

Also: Inner Sphere dakkaboats and DPS builds can still work. You simply can't get into staring-contest pseudo-Zellbrigen fights with Clan 'Mechs. An Inner Sphere DPS build needs to get the drop on a Clansman and get his dakka on while the Clansman is otherwise occupied/not looking your way. Yeah, in an open field one-on-one, pistols-at-ten-paces sort of fight, the Clan 'Mech is generally going to come out on top, but you know what? There should be areas and fighting methods the Clans have an advantage in. It's what makes the game interesting - a Clan pilot is going to try and force that particular disadvantageous confrontation on his enemy, and the Inner Sphere pilot's job is to avoid that staring contest and find ways to apply his own damage while the Clansman's back is turned. Move and countermove, play and positioning. Even with the LRM overload and the increased sniping ranges, matches have been a lot more fun and dynamic since the Clans hit, don't you think?

[Roland]

Quote

On the other hand, Clan machines attempting to focus on spike alpha damage over DPS are generally held to be at a significant disadvantage against Inner Sphere spike builds.

Not really, just based on the fact that they can leverage the ERPPC and Gauss. They have perhaps fewer options, but the options they have are still quite strong. My 2PPC/Gauss TWolf is able to dump 35 points on a single panel, with some bonus damage to the sides, while running around at 90kph, and is ridiculously durable. There is absolutely nothing about that mechs which is at a "disadvantage". I mean, hell, even after not playing the game for months I was able to hop back into the seat and run a decent K/D and win rate, while pugging.

Likewise, the DWolf running 2x2 is hillarious.... Slow as hell, but the 50 point alpha will one-shot a bunch of mechs. In reality, the DWolf feels pretty well balanced.. It has huge offensive power, but its slow speed makes maneuvering an issue. It's run watching fresh mechs pop though.

The TWolf feels very strong though... And the claims by some that it was somehow fragile were absolutely false. It's easilly one of the most durable mechs I've driven, due to its clan XL and its high mobility. I suspect that after I further knock the rust off, and after unlocking some of the skill upgrades, it will only get stronger.

[IraqiWalker]

Roland, on 30 June 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

The TWolf feels very strong though... And the claims by some that it was somehow fragile were absolutely false. It's easilly one of the most durable mechs I've driven, due to its clan XL and its high mobility. I suspect that after I further knock the rust off, and after unlocking some of the skill upgrades, it will only get stronger.

Those claims come from the simple fact that it's CT is so huge it makes Texas look small, not even torso twisting can shield you well. So yes, the T-Wolf is very durable, against enemies that can't hit it. Which is very true for every other mech out there. However, it's much easier to hit the CT on a T-Wolf than on a Summoner, or Dragon.

[Roland]

IraqiWalker, on 30 June 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

Those claims come from the simple fact that it's CT is so huge it makes Texas look small, not even torso twisting can shield you well. So yes, the T-Wolf is very durable, against enemies that can't hit it. Which is very true for every other mech out there. However, it's much easier to hit the CT on a T-Wolf than on a Summoner, or Dragon.

I just wasn't having that problem, and I was playing against folks who most certainly could hit it if I showed it to them.

The mech's overall torso is large, but it's also got large arms. I wasn't having much trouble soaking damage into my sides and arms by twisting away from the shooter, especially when including the mech's JJ's.

I'd actually say the dragon has an easier to hit CT since it sticks out all alone from the front of the mech, while the TWolf's side torsos protect its CT.

[Wintersdark]

From a high-end meta standpoint, the Timberwolf is definitely a solid top tier mech. Does it outclass a Dragonslayer? Or even a 3D? I dunno. It has advantages - it's faster, and can withstand more punishment thanks to the Clan XL, but it's also hampered by being forced to use CERPPC's instead of IS PPC's. The extra 10 heat matters.

But this is one mech, with one specific build, and cannot be held as an example of whether or not clans are overpowered in general. A summoner, for example, running only one CERPPC and a Gauss is a usable meta-mech, but is much less of an issue.

The Dire Wolf is readily balanced by it's whalishness - a 2x2 DWolf (the only one anyone cares about) hits extremely hard but even when fully mastered has such glaring weaknesses that it significantly limits it's whole team.

Clan Mediums are great mechs, but in no way problematic. Clan lights are interesting but absolutely not overpowered. The Adder is kind of a joke, and the Kit Fox is pretty much just a support mech (though a useful one).

In short, one mech that's competitive with the top IS mechs does not a "ALL CLAN MECHS ARE OP" prove.