215 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

Late coming to this thread....

Sounds like a Jeff Foxworthy routine....

[Lostdragon]

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 24 June 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

Its actually easier without all of the ppfld IS cancer boats running around. Sure you still see the occasional dual gauss or ac40 but you arent seeing 6-9 of them on the other team any more and that is fabulous news (that aint gonna last when the shiney wears off. bet)

Much of your lower damage should be attributed to the recent HSR changes as well as the slightly lower ttk that has shown in the post clan drop. Theres a ton of new and havent played in forever guys on the field now that are lost in the sauce and skewing the perceptions.



When has the sole purpose of the IS light been anything BUT killing assaults and wreaking havoc?

Yesterday

Not trying to be rude, but I don't recognize any of the names of the opposing team in that screenshot as players that I know are good pilots. I am not the best pilot out there by any means, but I often find myself playing against people who are recognized as being top players. The lower damage I am doing is because the tactics I used to be able to employ successfully in an Ember or Jenner are no longer viable against the opponents I am facing, but ymmv depending on who you are playing against.

I still do good damage sometimes in my Ember, but it is much harder and much rarer than it was a week ago. If I catch a Daishi alone I can rip it apart, but most of the teams I'm playing against are competent enough to move as a group and if they see me on their assaults they can easily blow pieces of my mech off with one volley.

IraqiWalker, on 24 June 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

The clan streaks are the main threat to lights right now. the ERMLs don't do much against a light going 150+ Kph.

However, Make your job as an IS light mech, hunting down clan assaults, as they are slower than a turtle on it's back (especially the Daishi). That, or Clan lights that have no missile points. Other than that, always skirmish. Only close distance when you know the coast is clear and they have no 5xSSRM6 Stormcrows running around. If you think a streak cat hurts, wait until this guy smacks you.

Again, this only works if you are playing against bad players who don't support their assaults and can't aim... Even then it is very dangerous to try to solo an assault in a light. Taking on a good assault pilot in a light mech is extremely dangerous because regardless of whether it is an IS or Clan light if you make a single mistake and the enemy is competent enough to capitalize on it you are going to be either dead or close to it. Light mechs taking on assaults solo rely on the assault pilot not being very good, and even a bad pilot in a Clan mech can easily do a lot of damage to you very quickly if you make one mistake.

Skirmishing has become incredibly dangerous as well, it is easier even for pilots with less than stellar aim to hit lights with burst fire ACs and do some damage where they might do none with an IS AC. Getting grazed by 12 MLs is quite painful in a 30 or even 35 ton mech and anyone who is able to hold the beam on you with any sort of a steady hand can easily leg you and have your other leg down to no armor. I've taken both legs off lights in a Nova with a single alpha.

[IraqiWalker]

Lostdragon, on 24 June 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

Not trying to be rude, but I don't recognize any of the names of the opposing team in that screenshot as players that I know are good pilots. I am not the best pilot out there by any means, but I often find myself playing against people who are recognized as being top players. The lower damage I am doing is because the tactics I used to be able to employ successfully in an Ember or Jenner are no longer viable against the opponents I am facing, but ymmv depending on who you are playing against.

I still do good damage sometimes in my Ember, but it is much harder and much rarer than it was a week ago. If I catch a Daishi alone I can rip it apart, but most of the teams I'm playing against are competent enough to move as a group and if they see me on their assaults they can easily blow pieces of my mech off with one volley.





Again, this only works if you are playing against bad players who don't support their assaults and can't aim... Even then it is very dangerous to try to solo an assault in a light. Taking on a good assault pilot in a light mech is extremely dangerous because regardless of whether it is an IS or Clan light if you make a single mistake and the enemy is competent enough to capitalize on it you are going to be either dead or close to it. Light mechs taking on assaults solo rely on the assault pilot not being very good, and even a bad pilot in a Clan mech can easily do a lot of damage to you very quickly if you make one mistake.

Skirmishing has become incredibly dangerous as well, it is easier even for pilots with less than stellar aim to hit lights with burst fire ACs and do some damage where they might do none with an IS AC. Getting grazed by 12 MLs is quite painful in a 30 or even 35 ton mech and anyone who is able to hold the beam on you with any sort of a steady hand can easily leg you and have your other leg down to no armor. I've taken both legs off lights in a Nova with a single alpha.

Not criticizing your statements, but Beam weapons are just hard to keep on target, plain and simple. Especially when it's an IS light.

[Zuesacoatl]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 June 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

Yes indeed.

I had to sit there and really examine the issue. Why do some players facing the Clans not have any particular issue with them, yet others, just absolutely get their panties puckered and cry "OP! OP!"?

Then I had an epiphany. The Majority of Clan Weapons are Damage Over Time. Given a chance to unleash their full power, they do tend to have a Higher DPS, and also a potentially higher Alpha Potential.

Mind you, good players seldom worry about DPS, but this led me to the answer.


IF........... you insist on standing out in the open, especially in big, slow mechs, and doubly especially without the benefit of ECM or massed AMS....... Clan Tech is OP.

IF........... you regularly get into staring matches with your opponent....... Clan Tech is OP.

IF........... you cannot reliably put the majority of your return fire into one section of your opponent..... especially when it's staring back at you....... Clan Tech is OP.

If you do all these things, have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time, and regularly stare into the sun, you will indeed find Clan Tech OP.

The good news, is there is a cure. No, not to Nerf Clan Tech. Or to Buff Inner Sphere Mechs. No silly rabbit, the cure? It's to learn NOT to stand out in the open, not to get into staring matches with your opponent and to aim effectively, without panicking at return fire.

So indeed noble Forum Warriors, the power to defeat the Clans is indeed right in your very hands!!!!


Also, if the whole world is against, you and everything is OP, this may enlighten you as to why:
http://mwomercs.com/...80#entry3466680

you´re welcome!

Also, have noticed a trend that exacerbates the "Clan superiority" mythos. People are so scared of Clan Tech (just like they are of LRMs) that they turtle and huddle and mewl, even WORSE than they did against IS Mechs.

Thus, they huddle up like fish in a barrel, and take themselves out of the fight. And thus, they lose, and thus, become a self fulfilling prophecy of "Clan Superiority".

*Does this mean Clan Tech is perfect, or doesn't need tweaking? Of course not. But then, look at just how out of whack a lot of IS tech is, even when compared to other IS tech. It's a process, but the basic balance is very very close.

I think this is like the second post of yours I have liked recently, someone needs to check the temp in hedoublehockeysticks lol

[That Dawg]

I see so many folks posting in the new players forum asking about the real money packages they purchased.
We all start somewhere, but thats a GREAT clue PGI porked it. When you see so many clueless new players who are buying their way (or they think they are) into a superior gaming experience.

[IraqiWalker]

ThatDawg, on 25 June 2014 - 03:42 AM, said:

I see so many folks posting in the new players forum asking about the real money packages they purchased.
We all start somewhere, but thats a GREAT clue PGI porked it. When you see so many clueless new players who are buying their way (or they think they are) into a superior gaming experience.

Usually they are asking about when they will get the mechs now that they bought the packages. You don't actually read the threads do you?

[Andreu Delaware]

Techorse, on 21 June 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

Clans are not OP if you're smart.

If you are smart ... then clan pilot are dumb.

But if you are smart and a clan pilot are smart; you are a dead.

[IraqiWalker]

Andreu Delaware, on 25 June 2014 - 04:00 AM, said:

If you are smart ... then clan pilot are dumb.

But if you are smart and a clan pilot are smart; you are a dead.

I highly disagree with that statement.

I've met and killed some really good players in their clan mechs while I was running my IS mechs.

Clan mechs don't have an inherent advantage over IS mechs. In fact, aside from some minor tweaks, (ERSL should go up 1 heat. IS SL should go down 1 heat. IS ML should go down 1 heat) everything is pretty balanced.

[That Dawg]

IraqiWalker, on 25 June 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

I highly disagree with that statement.

I've met and killed some really good players in their clan mechs while I was running my IS mechs.

Clan mechs don't have an inherent advantage over IS mechs. In fact, aside from some minor tweaks, (ERSL should go up 1 heat. IS SL should go down 1 heat. IS ML should go down 1 heat) everything is pretty balanced.

And I've seen talented IS drivers just melt the other teams in their clan mechs. What was the point?
Saying this or that should do this or that doesn't matter except in forum discussions.
Fact is, clan weapons-they do more damage, run cooler than IS gear.
I'm surprised at the fanboi mentality over the protection of the new pay cash for mechs attitude in this last patch
The SAME group 6 months ago was spewing tears of rage over (insert one) LRMs', Streaks, AC20 etc etc etc

[Foster Bondroff]

My point was simply, that a better player will beat a bad player most of the time, not matter how good or bad the equipment is he uses.
The "cure" for the bad player is indeed to aquire more knowledge, get more experience or as some may say L2P. I guess we agree at this point.

But you can't compare equipment quality based individual skill. You can not simply argue that IS Tech or Clan Tech is better or worse, because your are able to force the needed playstyle on your opponent.

Because someone else can simply reverse any of your points in the opening post, i will showcase it for you:

Mind you, good players seldom worry about FLD, but this led me to the answer.


IF........... you insist on just peaking around corners, especially in big, slow mechs, and doubly especially without the benefit of ECM or massed AMS....... IS Tech is OP.

IF........... you regularly get into peek-a-bo matches with your opponent....... IS Tech is OP.

IF........... you cannot reliably force your opponent into the open, and allow him to hide behind rocks or buildings to jump over an shoot you............ IS Tech is OP.

If you do all these things, have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time, and regularly stare into the sun, you will indeed find IS Tech OP.

Its just not working as a sound argument if Clan and IS Tech is well balanced. If you want to prove that you will have to, based on equally skilled pilots. Not on one being piloted by a hardened veteran with common sense and situational awareness and the other one piloted by someone who would let a pack of rotten toast look genius compared to himself.

Edited by Foster Bondroff, 25 June 2014 - 04:37 AM.

[Lostdragon]

IraqiWalker, on 24 June 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

Not criticizing your statements, but Beam weapons are just hard to keep on target, plain and simple. Especially when it's an IS light.

I don't disagree with you at all, but there are people who are very good at it. There are also mechs like the Nova that can boat beam weapons in such numbers that even getting grazed by them hurts a lot for lights. The CERML does ~0.54 damage in 0.1s. 12 of them fired together (which is possible to do at 0 heat on cool maps) do almost 6.5 damage in 0.1s. That is a significant portion of the armor on any section of a light. Even if a Nova pilot is not the best at holding his weapons on target if he sweeps light's legs and puts even 1/2 of an alpha on target that is going to take 42 points off the light. 35 ton lights only have 32 armor on each leg, so that is 65% of the light's leg armor gone in 1.3s or less.

And it is not just beam weapons, as I mentioned before, Clan ACs being burst fire helps people who are not great shots land some of their damage on fast moving lights that they might have missed completely with a one shell. Clan mechs also come with large engines (except for the lights, ironically, and the Direwolf) that make them very fast an maneuverable, along with having a lot of space to take very powerful Clan weapons. These factors make it easier for a Clan mech with double basics, particularly the heavies, to track and get firing angles on lights than their equivalent tonnage IS counterparts. Not being vulnerable to death by side torso destruction also gives them a leg up on their IS counterparts and makes it more difficult for lights to kill them.

These factors have severely hampered the effectiveness of skirmishing and hit and run type tactics with large numbers of close range weapons on lights and relegated lights to fire support or sniping roles, which I personally don't find to be nearly as fun. It is much more difficult to dance around and make big mechs miss completely without getting completely torn up right away.

Edited by Lostdragon, 25 June 2014 - 05:47 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Foster Bondroff, on 25 June 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

My point was simply, that a better player will beat a bad player most of the time, not matter how good or bad the equipment is he uses.
The "cure" for the bad player is indeed to aquire more knowledge, get more experience or as some may say L2P. I guess we agree at this point.

But you can't compare equipment quality based individual skill. You can not simply argue that IS Tech or Clan Tech is better or worse, because your are able to force the needed playstyle on your opponent.

Because someone else can simply reverse any of your points in the opening post, i will showcase it for you:

Mind you, good players seldom worry about FLD, but this led me to the answer.


IF........... you insist on just peaking around corners, especially in big, slow mechs, and doubly especially without the benefit of ECM or massed AMS....... IS Tech is OP.

IF........... you regularly get into peek-a-bo matches with your opponent....... IS Tech is OP.

IF........... you cannot reliably force your opponent into the open, and allow him to hide behind rocks or buildings to jump over an shoot you............ IS Tech is OP.

If you do all these things, have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time, and regularly stare into the sun, you will indeed find IS Tech OP.

Its just not working as a sound argument if Clan and IS Tech is well balanced. If you want to prove that you will have to, based on equally skilled pilots. Not on one being piloted by a hardened veteran with common sense and situational awareness and the other one piloted by someone who would let a pack of rotten toast look genius compared to himself.

Yes, because good players are all about DPS, aren't they, as the tournament demonstrated.....

Oh no...wait, those WERE FLD Poptarts on both sides of the final match!

[Hillslam]

Another myth I think needs debunked is that all clan pilots are better.

I'm seeing ALOT of bad clan pilots. I mean hilariously bad pilots.

(My guess is the "oooh shiny better" release lured a bunch of rusty players back and lured a bunch of new players in as well).

Meh, more fun for me.

[IraqiWalker]

ThatDawg, on 25 June 2014 - 04:13 AM, said:

And I've seen talented IS drivers just melt the other teams in their clan mechs. What was the point?
Saying this or that should do this or that doesn't matter except in forum discussions.
Fact is, clan weapons-they do more damage, run cooler than IS gear.
I'm surprised at the fanboi mentality over the protection of the new pay cash for mechs attitude in this last patch
The SAME group 6 months ago was spewing tears of rage over (insert one) LRMs', Streaks, AC20 etc etc etc

First, read the post I was quoting to understand what the context is, before responding without knowing what's going on.

Second. Not a single clan weapon runs cooler than an IS weapon.

Third, pretty sure the only group that was whining about LRMs and ACs, is the same group that is whining about clans right now.

You're literally talking about things you don't know right now. No understanding of context, and definitely no idea which players are on which side. Not to mention you apparently only looked at the damage numbers on the weapons.

If you want. I can go down the line with you, weapon for weapon, and tell you exactly why you're wrong about each one of them being over powered.

Hillslam, on 25 June 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Another myth I think needs debunked is that all clan pilots are better.

I'm seeing ALOT of bad clan pilots. I mean hilariously bad pilots.

(My guess is the "oooh shiny better" release lured a bunch of rusty players back and lured a bunch of new players in as well).

Meh, more fun for me.

That comes from the expectation that the people who paid for the clan packs are the ones that have been around the longest, and so they would be capable pilots. The reality is that this "myth" is somewhat true. However, a LOT of players bought the clan pack while having little experience with the game. Hence the bad piloting.

Basically, like with anything else. There are good and bad apples.

[Bishop Steiner]

Well, this got more discussion and debate than I could have hoped.

[IraqiWalker]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 June 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

Well, this got more discussion and debate than I could have hoped.

It was bound to happen eventually XD.