894 replies to this topic

[Haji1096]

FLD weapons, good aim, and focus fire are important to winning any match. Its easy to see them as the root cause of getting stomped by a four man or competitive team, but don't forget about positioning.

The reason why an 89 kph timber wolf with jump jets would be overpowered is because it can quickly access better positions than the other FLD meta mechs. Combine that with extra toughness from the Clan XL and you don't have to make any design trade offs. The Timber Wolf is a Dragon Slayer that is 11 kph faster, with no XL vulnerability, and can use ominpods to switch weapons/shield side or make a symmetrical build so that you always have damage capability.

[Adiuvo]

VIPER2207, on 23 June 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

What i ask myself: Did anyone of the so-called "competitive players" who are now pressing the "please nerf" button, ever try to run a balanced loadout, just to have some fun playing the game?
While i totaly understand the view of a competitive player "it's not about fun, it's about winning and being the number one", you guys should maybe think of the other part of the community who just wants to have fun playing the game. I for myself run pretty balanced loadouts on all of my timberwolfs, it's fun and it doesn't feel OP.... until i drop with some certain guys from my unit and end up in some kind of all-star-game deep down in elo hell, with nothing but players from HOL, Blackspikes, SJR and so on... then the fun ends, and the game becomes a pain within seconds, while i read through the team's players. Dropping against 12 timbertarts/dragon slayers/3Ds? Yeah, you are right, that's not fun, and pinpoint-damage is not fun. You are tired of this? Well, do something else maybe?
The hardpoints and/or mechs are not the biggest problem in this game, it's the players who are dropping in min-max-builds all the time. The guys who fitted all their three timberwolfs with jumpjets, 2 ERPPCs and a gauss? Yeah great, you won... have fun grinding these things with as less diversity as possible.
And guess what? Even if PGI nerfs the clans to oblivion now, and point the nerfbat to the dragon slayer and 3D afterwards, the next "meta" will rise, which will be nerfed again. Almost a year ago, i did some kind of sarcastic post about this vicious circle that i call "the game of nerves". I said "now we nerf this, and then we nerf that, and at some point in the future, machineguns will be called OP and they will be nerfed". Half a year later, machineguns got nerfed. Funny story, isn't it? I'm still waiting for the flamer-nerf though...

I'm totaly aware that i'm not making myself any friends with this statement, neither with anyone in the comp. area nor within my unit, but i will take that.

Refusing to acknowledge the problem doesn't do anything to fix the problem.

Even if all of HoL refused to drop in jumpsniper mechs, jumpsniper mechs would exist. And people would still use them.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 June 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

I still love that the only recommended nerfs from the "Elite" folks, involve direct nerfs to a chassis or things that really won't keep them from poptarting.

Quote

2xClan ERPPCs is ridiculously overpowered. Following the current implemented Ghost Heat rule, firing two should cause Ghost Heat. This will require two separate shots, and if you want pinpoint, it's at the penalty of quite a bit of heat.

[Roland]

If the game is still going by the time most of the clan mechs are released for usage by the rest of the playerbase, and not behind a paywall, then we'll see what the opinions are of folks who claim they are fine, when everyone they face can employ the same mechs.

[Gyrok]

I would be perfectly ok with it...personally

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Adiuvo, on 23 June 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Refusing to acknowledge the problem doesn't do anything to fix the problem.

Even if all of HoL refused to drop in jumpsniper mechs, jumpsniper mechs would exist. And people would still use them.

First things first, that once again basically only nerfs the Timberwolf's ability to jump snipe directly, unless he wants ALL PPC's to have ghost heat at 2 PPC's?

But more to the point...who does Ghost Heat hurt the least? Here is a hint, it's the guy who jumps into the air from behind cover, fires a shot, then hands behind cover.

Once again, that fix does not address poptarting being the most efficient way to play the game.

Edit: So my question once again is, are you just trying to nerf the Clans or trying to fix Poptarting? Because asking for ONLY Clan ER PPCs to get Ghost Heat when 2 are fired does not address the issue.

Is this a problem for HoL because they want to go all IS and are worried about the Timberwolf in CW?

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 23 June 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Adiuvo]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 June 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

First things first, that once again basically only nerfs the Timberwolf's ability to jump snipe directly, unless he wants ALL PPC's to have ghost heat at 2 PPC's?

But more to the point...who does Ghost Heat hurt the least? Here is a hint, it's the guy who jumps into the air from behind cover, fires a shot, then hands behind cover.

Once again, that fix does not address poptarting being the most efficient way to play the game.

It's a matter of reducing DPS, allowing brawler mechs to close in on jumpsnipers. A 25 damage alpha is better to get hit by than a 35 damage alpha. If they want the 35 shots will either be spread or they'll take the hit to heat, which leaves you a sitting duck as you get pelted by SRMs.

SRMs work now. Brawlers are strong if they can close the distance. Clan ranges and clan damage make this much more difficult than it used to be, hence the point of this thread.

Things like JJ heat and fall damage will raise the skill floor of jumpsniping.

All PPCs having a ghost heat of two could be a possibility, but against IS mechs brawlers don't have much of a problem closing distance. IS range is less, IS damage is less, IS speed is less, and IS tankiness is less. IS jumpsnipers, assuming JJs actually get fixed with the heat/fall damage, aren't really OP now that SRMs kill things. Clan jumpsnipers, however, don't have the fragility/speed trade-off that IS mechs have, throwing of the fragile balance of balance.

[Maxx Blue]

Ok, let me take a (poorly-aimed-because-I-am-not-high-ELO) shot at this!

SHORT VERSION:

Make PPC's burst-fire with a cool visual effect to link the individual 'shots' to make it look like a stream of lighting/plasma. Don't up the ghost heat.

LONG VERSION:

First, what I agree with the OP on:

The timberwolf is the best clan mech. It is fast, can carry a variety of useful weapons loadouts, whether you are meta-l33t, or just a scrub PUG. It has good durability and does seem to spread damage well. The 'ears' aren't nearly as much of a problem as I expected them to be. No matter what happens with any other systems in the game, the Timberwolf is just a really good chassis, and is probably going to get a chassis-level hit with the nerf bat sometime soon. Like it or not, that is probably going to happen. However, even after a nerf it is still likely to be really good, much like the Victor.

I also agree that the clan PPC is a great weapon. However, I would expand that to say that ANY PPC's are great weapons, and possibly the best weapons in the game. It weighs the same as an AC/2 with one ton of ammo, has unlimited ammo, takes very few crit slots and has the all-important FLD with a reasonably fast projectile speed. All other FLD weapons weigh more and have limited ammo. Every other FLD weapon (except the IS AC2, which is almost a DPS weapon) take more crits and almost all have a lower projectile speed (Gauss and AC2 being the exceptions.) Yes, they are hot, but that is really the only downside, and I think the meta-players and the recent tournament have shown that, with sufficient mech speed, you can control the engagement distance well enough to keep brawlers away while you poke at them.

Gauss is an awesome weapon, but the weight, crit slots and ammo dependance give it, in my mind, more downsides than the PPC. Besides the number of mechs that can even realistically run more than one gauss rifle and still poptart is pretty small: Phract, Victor, Highlander and Timberwolf. I guess you could technically do it on a IV-Four, but it would be stripped of armor and slow. The number of mechs than can dual-PPC is much larger. Gauss is really just a great compliment to the PPC's on a clan mech, not a massive problem in it's own right. It is meta for a reason.

Lights now have a much tougher life. I don't know exactly why, but they do seem to get beaten up more easily at the moment...unless they are fighting a lone direwolf.

Finally, Jump-shots aren't inherently evil. They are a fun part of the game and should be allowed to exist, to some extent. If you take away the high-ELO-guys jump jets, they will just hill hump or peek-snipe instead. You won't stop them from sniping with 2xPPC+Ballistics, you will just change the angle at which they come out of cover.

Now, what I DON'T agree with:

Ghost heat isn't the solution to clan PPC's. It might slow the meta crowd down enough that PPC's aren't the most efficient choice, but you guys will just switch to more ballistics and one PPC or dual-gauss builds. Everyone will still have PPC's, they will just have only one instead of 2. You see, ghost heat doesn't ADD any disadvantages to the PPC, it just AMPLIFIES the single disadvantage they have. My suggestion is to do the same thing that got the meta boys to switch to Gauss instead of UAC5 on clan mechs: Make PPC's burst-fire. Actually, what I want visually is a long stream of plasma/lightning/cool-glowy-stuff, but in reality it will be processed as a burst-fire stream of projectiles. Furthermore, I want this done to ALL PPC's, not just the clan ones. Give it five projectiles and a burst-duration the same as the UAC20 and lets see what that does. Now, you have changed the PPC from a pinpiont FLD weapon to a DPS weapon. You have added a NEW down-side, which is going to force you meta guys to decide whether the short 'duration' of a PPC burst is worth the heat, or the longer duration and lower heat of a laser is better. This will also help to keep us low/mid-ELO players happy since our aim is crap anyway and we would rather keep shooting (and missing a bunch) with our PPC's more often rather than having them essentially taken away from us by ghost heat. We miss our shots a third of the time anyway, so ghost heat is really painful for us since we not only can;t shoot as often, but we miss more when we do. If you switch to burst-fire, we can still shoot as often as we do now, and since people like us who suck aren't as good at cover anyway, we might actually land the whole burst...when we don't miss.

I am OK with leaving Gauss alone for the moment, but to be honest we could make it easier to shoot (I'm looking at you charge-up mechanic) and it wouldn't matter much to the high-ELO crowd. You guys still land a really high percentage of your Gauss shots as it is. Us lower/mid guys are the ones who actually got nerfed by that effect, but it isn;t so bad that I am going to push for a change.

Edited by Maxx Blue, 23 June 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Adiuvo, on 23 June 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

It's a matter of reducing DPS, allowing brawler mechs to close in on jumpsnipers. A 25 damage alpha is better to get hit by than a 35 damage alpha. If they want the 35 shots will either be spread or they'll take the hit to heat, which leaves you a sitting duck as you get pelted by SRMs. SRMs work now. Brawlers are strong if they can close the distance. Clan ranges and clan damage make this much more difficult than it used to be, hence the point of this thread. Things like JJ heat and fall damage will raise the skill floor of jumpsniping. All PPCs having a ghost heat of two could be a possibility, but against IS mechs brawlers don't have much of a problem closing distance. IS range is less, IS damage is less, IS speed is less, and IS tankiness is less. IS jumpsnipers, assuming JJs actually get fixed with the heat/fall damage, aren't really OP now that SRMs kill things. Clan jumpsnipers, however, don't have the fragility/speed trade-off that IS mechs have, throwing of the fragile balance of balance.

You seem to have this idea that items that are being put in to try and address jump sniping ONLY effect jump sniping.

This is kind of like the "twist/turn" fixes for the Victor which actually hurt brawling more than jump sniping.

JJ Heat and fall damage will hurt brawlers just as much if not more than jump sniping.

Especially the heat.

As for this concept that jump sniping isn't a problem with IS jump snipers, that once again leads me to believe you are not being entirely altruistic.

ALL jump sniping needs to be majorly addressed, we are coming up on a year and a half where it has been the dominant meta in the game.

You cannot just nerf the Timberwolf because you don't like the SINGLE clan jump sniper.

Especially since once 3/3/3/3 is finally put back in, there would at most be 3 of them on a team.

While IS could still do 3 Shadow Hawks, 3 3D's and 3 Victors.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 23 June 2014 - 08:43 AM.

[Koniks]

Adiuvo, on 23 June 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

ERPPC quote

Quoting that suggestion out of context doesn't really address the point. The rest of heim's post contained nothing to change the Inner Sphere meta or knock the CTF-3D and the DS off their perch.

Heim identified the problem as brawlers' inability to close distance on jumpshot mechs. None of the solutions proposed would give brawlers the ability to do that. Changing the ERPPC ghost heat trigger would only mean that taking down a brawler requires coordinated alphas from 2 or 3 jumpshot mechs, rather than 2 or 3 alphas from 1 jumpshot mech. The competitive scene wouldn't move to other loadouts, just different tactics.

The game isn't going to be balanced so long as mechs can deliver large quantities of PPFLD in alpha strikes without shutting down and/or damaging themselves. Jump jet heat and fall damage are a start but little more than bandaids. And the ghost heat proposal doesn't disable mechs that ignore it, it just slightly slows down their rate of fire but not enough for brawlers to get into range.

TL;DR: comp players are great at identifying the optimal approach for the current state of play. I am not at all convinced you know what the prescription is.

Edited by Mizeur, 23 June 2014 - 08:49 AM.

[Roland]

Mizeur, on 23 June 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Changing the ERPPC ghost heat trigger would only mean that taking down a brawler requires coordinated alphas from 2 or 3 jumpshot mechs, rather than 2 or 3 alphas from 1 jumpshot mech. The competitive scene wouldn't move to other loadouts, just different tactics.

I honestly don't realy have a dog in the fight here, but when folks say nonsense like this I gotta point it out.

Saying that the same thing would occur, only it would require 2-3 mechs instead of one mech, is one of the stupidest things I've seen so far.

You don't have infinite mechs on your team, dude. If it requires you to coordinate fire between 2-3 mechs, instead of one mech doing it alone, that's a massive difference. If you have to coordinate fire from a quarter of your team, that means those guys aren't shooting at the OTHER guys on the enemy team.

I swear, I have to wonder what game some of you guys are even playing, if things like this have to be explicitly pointed out.

[Adiuvo]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 23 June 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

You seem to have this idea that items that are being put in to try and fix jump sniping ONLY effect jump sniping.

JJ Heat and fall damage will hurt brawlers just as much if not more than jump sniping.

Especially the heat.

As for this concept that jump sniping isn't a problem with IS jump snipers, that once again leads me to believe you are not being entirely altruistic.

ALL jump sniping needs to be majorly addressed, we are coming up on a year and a half where it has been the dominant meta in the game.

You cannot just nerf the Timberwolf because you don't like the SINGLE clan jump sniper.

Especially since once 3/3/3/3 is finally put back in, there would at most be 3 of them on a team.

While IS could still do 3 Shadow Hawks, 3 3D's and 3 Victors.

Jump brawlers make shallow jumps to spread damage. They won't be impacted by fall damage unless the player is holding down spacebar, which is just bad play. JJ heat needs to be in for everyone, including brawlers, to make JJ mechs and non-JJ mechs more even. There needs to be some drawback besides the (minor) tonnage investment of JJs. I would ideally like for an Orion not to be outclassed by a Cataphract purely because the Cataphract has JJs.

IS jumpsniping was the only option, again, due to broken SRMs. The problem was always that even if you closed the distance on them, you couldn't put out enough damage to kill them before they could kill you. SRMs fix this. Jumpsniping in general is already being addressed by the aforementioned fall damage and JJ heat. We'll see if counters arise in next season of comp play, which for the most part is banning out clan mechs until they become available for cbills. In pugs SRM brawlers are already being used and dealing out some good damage.

A 2xERPPC/1xGauss nerf isn't a nerf to only the Timberwolf. As for its agility reduction, the reason for that is that it outclasses every mech in the game, in every role at the moment. No IS brawler can compete with it due to speed. An IS medium mech can't maneuver around it. A clan medium can't maneuver around it. A Cataphract will *die quickly. So will an Orion. So will an Atlas... why is this OK? Even if it's in a brawler config?

Mizeur, on 23 June 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Quoting that suggestion out of context doesn't really address the point. The rest of heim's post contained nothing to change the Inner Sphere meta or knock the CTF-3D and the DS off their perch.

Heim identified the problem as brawlers' inability to close distance on jumpshot mechs. None of the solutions proposed would give brawlers the ability to do that. Changing the ERPPC ghost heat trigger would only mean that taking down a brawler requires coordinated alphas from 2 or 3 jumpshot mechs, rather than 2 or 3 alphas from 1 jumpshot mech. The competitive scene wouldn't move to other loadouts, just different tactics.

The game isn't going to be balanced so long as mechs can deliver large quantities of PPFLD in alpha strikes without shutting down and/or damaging themselves. Jump jet heat and fall damage are a start but little more than bandaids. And the ghost heat proposal doesn't disable mechs that ignore it, it just slightly slows down their rate of fire but not enough for brawlers to get into range.

TL;DR: comp players are great at identifying the optimal approach for the current state of play. I am not at all convinced you know what the prescription is.

This post is about clan mechs, why are you expecting Inner Sphere things to be addressed?

If you want that info, we've all said the same thing many times.

1) Put in JJ scaling such as the Highlander had, on ALL mechs. IE., linear scaling.
2) Put in JJ heat.
3) Revise jump animations so that you don't get 5 meters free for just tapping spacebar.
4) Put in JJ fall damage.
5) (if needed) require a minimum number of JJs as to reduce tonnage available for heatsinks. Point 1 will ideally accomplish the same thing without a hard limit.

Edited by Adiuvo, 23 June 2014 - 09:29 AM.

[Koniks]

Adiuvo, on 23 June 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

This post is about clan mechs, why are you expecting Inner Sphere things to be addressed?

You can't address balance on one without the other. The issue isn't unique to either faction. It's the underlying game mechanics.

And none of the JJ nerfs address the problem--they disadvantage brawling with jump jets as much or more than long-range jumpshots. The issue is the size and number of alpha strikes we can deliver without being shutdown.

If one alpha shut down a jumpshot mech and left it having to cool off for a significant chunk of time, then that would leave them having to choose between a high-risk max alpha or having to land repeated shots on the same component. Like every other build.

Roland, on 23 June 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Saying that the same thing would occur, only it would require 2-3 mechs instead of one mech, is one of the stupidest things I've seen so far.

3 lances of jumpshot mechs will still be able to take down 1-1.5 lances of the opponent in a single volley before they can close. So now it's 12v8. Pardon me if I don't think brawling weapons are good enough to beat the ERPPC/PPC/Gauss/AC5 loadouts when they're at a 3:2 disadvantage.

Lowering the heat cap so that fewer PPFLD weapons can be included in an alpha would mean that taking down a mech in a single jumpshot volley would require focus fire from a full lance or more. Until that happens, the competitive players aren't going to change the meta.

Edited by Mizeur, 23 June 2014 - 09:13 AM.

[Adiuvo]

Mizeur, on 23 June 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

You can't address balance on one without the other. The issue isn't unique to either faction. It's the underlying game mechanics.


3 lances of jumpshot mechs will still be able to take down 1-1.5 lances of the opponent in a single volley before they can close. So now it's 12v8. Pardon me if I don't think brawling weapons are good enough to beat the ERPPC/PPC/Gauss/AC5 loadouts when they're at a 3:2 disadvantage.

IS mechanics have already been addressed in numerous other posts. This one doesn't need to be doubled in length. It's already long enough.

What you're saying isn't realistic. Even with coordinated fire things don't die in single volleys. Good players shield their torsos are are able to take a massive amount of damage before they go down.
For example...

First Engagement finals

RHoD finals:

http://www.twitch.tv...light/c/4434543
http://www.twitch.tv...light/c/4434524
http://www.twitch.tv...light/c/4434613

[RockmachinE]

The question that I have and I'm really curious what kind of answers I'll get to this... Once all clan mechs become accessible for CBill purchase, what will be the incentive to play IS? And I don't want ideological or roleplaying answers. Why would someone want to keep playing IS other then for shits and giggles?

And I'll use this oppurtunity to call it. By the time all Clan variants become available for CBill purchase, if something doesn't change big time the ratio of C to IS on a pug will be about 9/1 or 8/2 tops.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 23 June 2014 - 09:09 AM.

[Mystere]

zaepp, on 23 June 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Suggestions to nerf the Timberwolf

1. Agility

- Slightly nerf its agility, but not too much because we don't want to upset our brawling friends out there. I think torso/mech-turn-rate and acceleration/deceleration are good points to start with.

The Timber Wolf is agile precisely because of the 375XL engine that was forced on it. Why would it now be made to move like a big fat and slow assault mech? Did the the Clans just run out of lubricant?

People want to nerf the Timber Wolf's agility? Give it a smaller engine and reallocate all the saved weight and space to weapons, ammo, and other equipment.

Edited by Mystere, 23 June 2014 - 09:21 AM.

[meteorol]

Adiuvo, on 23 June 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

1) Put in JJ scaling such as the Highlander had, on ALL mechs. IE., linear scaling.

Honestly, i never understood why PGI shafted the HGN and nothing but the HGN so damn hard with the JJ nerf. It was absolutely clear the "meta" would just shift to the VTR, CTF, SDH instead. This was something even a 12 year old could anticipate.
JJ need to be rebalanced across the board, they just give too much of a benefit for pretty much zero investment (well, aside of the HGN). JJ make mechs just flat out superiour to non JJ mech given their current implemantation.

OT:
I understand people get sensitive about their precious Timberwolf they just bought, but this thing really needs some tweaking. It's better than the other clan mechs. It makes the Summoner 100% obsolete, which is stupid to begin with. It's vastly superior to the IS heavies, which will become more of an issue once 4x3 is in place. People comparing this thing to the Victor, while 4x3 will match it against Quickdraws, Catapults and Dragons. Even the CTF-3D which is arguably the best IS heavy mech (given the current meta) pales compared to what the TW has to offer.
It's not about meta vs. non meta, brawling vs. sniping, or something like that. The TW is just offers too many benefits in all categories compared to other mechs (IS and Clan mechs)

[Cpt Zaepp]

Mystere, on 23 June 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

The Timber Wolf is agile precisely because of the 375XL engine that was forced on it. Why would it now be made to move like a big fat and slow assault mech? Did the the Clans just run out of lubricant?

People want to nerf the Timber Wolf's agility? Give it a smaller engine and reallocate all the saved weight and space for weapons, ammo, and other equipment.

I don't know if that would be a good idea. AFAIK, with a Xl280 or XL300 we could build a 2x Gauss + 2 ERPPC.

With Jump Jets.

Sounds more like a war crime.

Edit: Just a FYI and for the record: I don't want it to move like a "big fat and slow assault mech", I would slightly tone down its agility.

Edited by zaepp, 23 June 2014 - 09:34 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Adiuvo, on 23 June 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

IS mechanics have already been addressed in numerous other posts. This one doesn't need to be doubled in length. It's already long enough.

No, they obviously haven't, since the same broken mechanics still exist.

And we're introducing two new mechanics...which by the way...you have no exact details on to make the assertion that they won't affect brawling..which may or may not fix the problem. And based on the PAST "fixes", will likely hurt brawling as much or more than jump sniping.

See, there is something call precedent, and the precedent is when Paul "addresses" jump sniping it hurts brawling more than jump sniping which is left in place as meta.

And yet again, I have to ask, when has HOL championed jump sniping being fixed before the Clans? Ever?

You suddenly, after 5 days of fixed SRMs, have decided that all is fixed for IS jump sniping but we need to nerf the SINGLE Clan jump sniper?

That seems kind of short sighted.

[1453 R]

Adiuvo, on 23 June 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

A 2xERPPC/1xGauss nerf isn't a nerf to only the Timberwolf. As for its agility reduction, the reason for that is that it outclasses every mech in the game, in every role at the moment. No IS brawler can compete with it due to speed. An IS medium mech can't maneuver around it. A clan medium can't maneuver around it. A Cataphract will due quickly. So will an Orion. So will an Atlas... why is this OK? Even if it's in a brawler config?

The main thrust of this argument is that the Victor was already completely ruined for the thing people liked to do with it, which was heavy strike-brawling. Even competitive players liked heavy strike-brawling with the Victor – they just didn’t do it because it didn’t win as many games as 250STD jump sniping did. If the comp scene is going to call for nerfs to every big ‘Mech with a big engine that moves the way its tonnage of engine calls for it to move, then you may as well stop releasing big ‘Mechs with big engines. At some point, somewhere, somehow, you guys have to give on the issue of speedy heavies/assaults. Removing the Timber Wolf’s calling card advantage (its excellent mobility has always been a highlight of the chassis in every game/novel/sourcebook/whatever I’ve seen it in) and turning it into a sluggish straightline dragster, a’la the Victor, does nothing whatsoever to impact its meta-ish jump sniping capabilities , but will nevertheless ruin most of the ninety-nine other things you can do with a Timber Wolf.

Just like the very same nerfs killed everything but jump-sniping on the Victor. Do we really want Timber Wolves maneuvering like Dire Wolves? Do we really want that, people?

[Damocles69]

Ppcs have needed looked at for a while. Be it charge, splash, or a duration effect, somthing needs done