894 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Wispsy, on 24 June 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

What? We are not 1trick ponies...people are just complaining some DS pilots are...Lords is made of people like Sims taken from teams that are lacking...I think every pilot is experienced and capable beyond almost all others that play at any mech or strat...but if you want to win a free hero mech (and they are expensive for some of us) then you bring that with the most optimal loadout and play the strat that most emphasis their strengths and diminishes their weaknesses...that is how you be the best in any game...before the match has even loaded the game has already begun...

If you are using the Jump PPC/AC/Gauss combo as the majority of your fighting, then you are a one trick pony. The elite will smash you with any weapon combo any terrain. Are you the best cause you use PPC/AC or are you the best cause you use something less and still triumph?

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 June 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

That isn't the game I was promised. I was promised the Clan Invasion. On a day=day timeline. I chose the Lyrans cause they are front line and have my preferred mix of Mechs and I would be facing the two most fearsome invaders & back in 1986 Joe was a Lyran.

Now I will be facing two enemies barely more formidable that the Dracs and Marik. I could face that in 3025. Not the game I was sold.

It was their position at the time.

[Livewyr]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 June 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Sir the best will win no matter what they drive.

Up until the top tier, this is accurate, but at the top tier- gear counts.

The VTR-DS and TBR Meta builds both have good chances by skilled pilots, though in different ways.
The VTR-DS can fire more often due to heat management, and has a shield arm, but is vulnerable due to the IS XL engine.)
The TBR can hit just as hard (harder if you count the PPC Arc) but it cannot do so as often due to heat management, nor can it protect its CT, ever, from a good shot. (Even profile gives the CT vulnerability at the front.)

However, most anything else facing either of the two on equal (skill) ground, will crumble simply because of the mechanics of the game. (Long Range PPFLD damage 2-3 times to the same location is a downed or disarmed mech, no matter what they are packing.)

Edited by Livewyr, 24 June 2014 - 09:06 AM.

[wanderer]

Also, random 12 'Mechs doesn't equal "skill tournament".

It equals "whoever gets the best 12 wins".

I mean, hell. Put me in a light. I'll suck. Put me in one of my favored heavies. I'll pull my weight.

Team play is about building a team. Randoms are just that- random. Seriously, do you see even -good- E-sport tournaments forcing players into random matchups? No. You bring your best games, your best characters or vehicles or what have you as the tournament allows.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 24 June 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

It was their position at the time.

And it is the position I would like to see triumph.

[Adiuvo]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 June 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

If you are using the Jump PPC/AC/Gauss combo as the majority of your fighting, then you are a one trick pony. The elite will smash you with any weapon combo any terrain. Are you the best cause you use PPC/AC or are you the best cause you use something less and still triumph?

The people we're fighting all have PPC/AC as well, so...

Anyways, we've done many 12mans with stupid drop decks. Brawler Boar's Heads? Sure. La Malinches because Ryan Steel and Heimdelight are the biggest whales ever? Why not. Brawler LRMs? Hilarious.

When it comes to competition though, at least with good teams we're not going to mess around. Because it's stupid to purposefully take a water pistol when your enemy has a gun.

[Wispsy]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 June 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

If you are using the Jump PPC/AC/Gauss combo as the majority of your fighting, then you are a one trick pony. The elite will smash you with any weapon combo any terrain. Are you the best cause you use PPC/AC or are you the best cause you use something less and still triumph?

That is exactly what I am saying...our pilots are good in every mech with every strat (with that one exception, although he can play any strat to basically perfection). I see Lords running plenty of things that are not ppc/ac all the time...but when you are playing against people who do not make mistakes and they run the most optimal mechs...you will lose without one...unless they **** up....like that is just how it is, no matter how amazingly skilled you are, they have to **** up...

[Mystere]

SilentWolff, on 24 June 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

I love how people win an insignificant tourney that no one will remember in a month and think they are now the final word on MWO balance. CSJ won the Templar tourney this weekend, does that mean we can come on the forum now and post nonsense threads and be expected to be taken seriously?

Wispsy, on 24 June 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

Why would anybody participating in the Templar tourney be taken seriously?

Did I just hear gauntlets being thrown? So when is the next challenge and where can I watch the video?

[Livewyr]

Wispsy, on 24 June 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

no matter how amazingly skilled you are, they have to **** up...

Not me. I am flawless.

[Adiuvo]

Mystere, on 24 June 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

Did I just hear gauntlets being thrown? So when is the next challenge and where can I watch the video?

RHoD season 4. Brackets haven't been made yet but the tourney starts July 8th.

[Wispsy]

Livewyr, on 24 June 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

Not me. I am flawless.

Huh? Flawless play was accounted for in what I said...

[Blacksoul1987]

Adiuvo, on 24 June 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

If you frontload ALL of your side torso armor, you'll survive with 4 points left!... but you'll die from just 2 PPCs out the back

lol yeah that doesn't cut it for my taste.

[Livewyr]

Wispsy, on 24 June 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Huh? Flawless play was accounted for in what I said...

(I was being funny...there are no flawless players- just those with fewer flaws than most others.)

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 June 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

If you are using the Jump PPC/AC/Gauss combo as the majority of your fighting, then you are a one trick pony. The elite will smash you with any weapon combo any terrain. Are you the best cause you use PPC/AC or are you the best cause you use something less and still triumph?

Joe, plz.

They have more game time logged than you do forum time.

[Wispsy]

Mystere, on 24 June 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

Did I just hear gauntlets being thrown? So when is the next challenge and where can I watch the video?

It would not be fair to fight them in the middle of merging, RHoD will start soon and will be streamed.

[Adiuvo]

Livewyr, on 24 June 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

(I was being funny...there are no flawless players- just those with fewer flaws than most others.)

Sarcasm. Wispsy is poor at making it known.

[Wispsy]

Livewyr, on 24 June 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

(I was being funny...there are no flawless players- just those with fewer flaws than most others.)

Ah my bad.

lol



(Also just to note, I have actually seen people play a number of flawless games, they are short, so it can happen, just not flawless in every game.)

[Ultimax]

Livewyr, on 24 June 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Another concern: While nerfing the Twolf, does this also intend to deal with with the current PPC(Gun) meta?

The TBR is currently popular with the clans because it can mount (do a degree) the VTR-DS build,

It can only run Gauss + 2x cERPPCs. It is unrealistic, and pointless, for it to run 2x AC/UAC +2xPPCs.

One build, one single build, that plays to the current metagame.

Harnessing a mechanic (perfect convergence of high alphas + jump sniping) that has been discussed ad nauseum.

It is a build design so prolific that even when you watch comp teams in 3/3/3/3 or tonnage restrictions they still end up running some permutation of this build on the small handful of chassis that can successfully do so.


Yet, here we are, 5 days post clan release demanding another nerf for another massively over engined heavy/assault mech to address the fact that it is fast and agile because it has a massive over sized engine - which whether anyone wants to admit it or not does actually sacrifice tonnage to be able to do that.

That's why it can't practically run 2x ACs + 2x PPCs - because you either run out of tonnage or you shave your armor down to below even most medium mechs. (Aside from the fact that the clan version isn't all FLD)


Heim actually outright stated that he feels FLD/Pinpoint is overpowered in his original post but then went on to only suggest nerfs to cERPPCs and then a nerf to clan lasers of all things.



On top of all of this, you can come close to nearly matching the Timber Wolf's speed and agility by plopping a 340xl into a Cataphract. The same build can also fit 1x Gauss + 2x PPCs, and JJs while having better cooling even with fewer heatsinks.

The Timber Wolf still has a few advantages, but if you really compare these two builds its a bit closer than you might think.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 24 June 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[Livewyr]

Wispsy, on 24 June 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

Ah my bad.

lol



(Also just to note, I have actually seen people play a number of flawless games, they are short, so it can happen, just not flawless in every game.)

Btw: Wisp, would you be interested in having a 1v1? (Entirely for fun, like last time.. only not having to sacrifice a pug match to do it.)

I am no where near as dedicated/good as I was, so I do not expect to win- but duels in good nature are fun regardless.

[Wispsy]

Livewyr, on 24 June 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

Btw: Wisp, would you be interested in having a 1v1? (Entirely for fun, like last time.. only not having to sacrifice a pug match to do it.)

I am no where near as dedicated/good as I was, so I do not expect to win- but duels in good nature are fun regardless.

I would rather not 1v1 lights I have quite terrible hit detection at the moment. It is simply an exercise in pure frustration. Thank god light fighting is not my role...if you want to do Cataphracts or something though I am game.

Edited by Wispsy, 24 June 2014 - 09:18 AM.