894 replies to this topic

[N0MAD]

Wispsy, on 24 June 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

That is exactly what I am saying...our pilots are good in every mech with every strat (with that one exception, although he can play any strat to basically perfection). I see Lords running plenty of things that are not ppc/ac all the time...but when you are playing against people who do not make mistakes and they run the most optimal mechs...you will lose without one...unless they **** up....like that is just how it is, no matter how amazingly skilled you are, they have to **** up...

Ya we could all see that (proficiency in all chassis) in the Tourny videos, ohh wait, how many different chassis weapons, did we see in that final match being used?.

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 24 June 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

3/3/3/3 will reduce tonnage on the field significantly. While balance needs looked at I would recommend giving the new mm a week to shake out before balance gets a serious look.

4x3 wont work/doesnt work, PGI have basically already admitted to this since they have already programmed into their new match maker safe guards, if you read Mats post the match maker will only for a short time try to MM to the 4x3 rule, then it will fall back on allowing 4 of a class then 5 etc matching more on tonnage ( if there are 5 class A chassis then it will try to match with another 5 Class A chassis) than 4x3.

Edited by N0MAD, 24 June 2014 - 08:03 PM.

[N0MAD]

Adiuvo, on 24 June 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

Despite us beating all other teams in competitive play and having an undefeated record?

Uh, alright. You have an odd definition of the best... but I'll live with it.

What you mean all other half dozen competitive teams?

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

How about we have it so a guass cannot fire with any other energy weapon. And PPC's cannot collate thier energy during the high oscilations of a jump. Thusly cannot be fired wile jumping. And the meta is gone.

Then we watch the high comp players and value thier input wisely. To see what weapon combo dominates clearly. And then slate it for the appropriate nerf. Then unnerf everything that was suggested to be nerfed that reinforced the currnet meta..

Is that not what they do to keep any high comp game that develops meta's balanced?

[DeathlyEyes]

I can tell you guys one thing, until hill climb is reduced so that mechs can climb 60 degree inclines and Acceleration is increased poptarting will be the only way to play at the competitive level that has any meaning.

[Joseph Mallan]

dario03, on 24 June 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

That is a self improvement saying designed to motivate people to keep improving. It also doesn't really have much to do with your suggestion.
In a actual contest to prove what team is best, bringing your best vs your opponents best is the standard way to figure it out. Would the Detroit Lions be better than the Cowboys if all the Lion's players were good at every position but repeatedly lost to the Cowboys because the Cowboys were great at their assigned positions and only those positions? Do the Cowboys have to win with their QB playing with a broken arm to prove they are the best? Would they only prove they are better by winning 172 to 0?
Like I said I don't believe in flat out best but if anybody can claim it its the Lords. They don't need to go out and win a tourney with random builds to do so.
There might be better teams out there but nobody has proved it yet.

Its that and a warning to not be complacent,

[wanderer]

Quote

The Best can overcome handicaps with better strategy. Have you tested your ability that way. Have you fought and beat the meta with sub-meta weapons and Mechs? THAT is how you know you are the best.

The first way you know you're doing it right is by not deliberately crippling yourself in the first place.

The term "deck" being bandied about for "team" reminds me of what I think might make this clearer to folks. I'm an old-time Magic: The Gathering player (Heck, I used to work for WoTC back during the Pokémon card craze).

When you build your deck, your team for competitive play, the most important thing is to be consistent. Situational plays leave you with dead cards and dead draws, and you need to minimize those. Combos that can be disrupted easily are useless combos in a competitive deck. Efficiency also matters- a card that takes resources you may never get into play (high costs, difficult conditions) is often a dead card as well- and enough of those means your opponent gets ahead of you. Game over

LRMs in MWO are situational (the wrong map can utterly reduce an LRM boat to uselessness)- and even at their best require a combo that has numerous easy-to-use disruptions that are frequently "main decked" anyway - most notably ECM. Sure, you can NARC- but that's a longer and even more kludgy combo play. Not meta.

The meta favors what can be used effectively and consistently. It has as few situational or tough-to-play cards in it's "deck" as possible. LRMs are situational. SRMs are tough-to-play (the AC/PPC/Gauss can be "played" earlier and more often thanks to reach, see also lights with ERLL poking). ML/MG lights can "play" thanks to being able to make it easier to use those "cards" due to speed- and within that, they are also reliable, consistent weapons. (And meta heavies and even mediums don't have that resource of speed to allow easy ML/MG play, thus they stick to the long rang guns above)

HoL and company have "meta-decks", and that's what works efficiently, consistently, and with the minimum amount of disruption possible. It is sensible and effective, and given near-similar "decks", player skill and a bit of luck are the tipping points, with skill being the most consistent modifier.

HoL has meta + good play skill of their "deck". Thus,they win. A lot.

[Wispsy]

N0MAD, on 24 June 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

Ya we could all see that (proficiency in all chassis) in the Tourny videos, ohh wait, how many different chassis weapons, did we see in that final match being used?.

Did you get halfway down and get so excited about pressing the quote button you did not read the second half of what you quoted?

[maniacos]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 25 June 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

I can tell you guys one thing, until hill climb is reduced so that mechs can climb 60 degree inclines and Acceleration is increased poptarting will be the only way to play at the competitive level that has any meaning.

This would kill all lights.
Better nerf the dual gauss meta that kill in 1 shot.

Edited by Jherek C, 25 June 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[DeathlyEyes]

Jherek C, on 25 June 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

This would kill all lights.
Better nerf the dual gauss meta that kill in 1 shot.

Here's a radical idea then, nerf every weapon to do half damage.

[Gyrok]

GAUSS WEAPON FIX FOR CLANS:

CLAN GAUSS BECOMES HAG20! DISCHARGES 5 ROUNDS OF 4 DAMAGE EACH AT 660M EFFECTIVE RANGE WITHIN .5 SEC, NO CHARGE MECHANIC TO FIRE.

I.S. GAUSS BECOMES HAG20 ALSO! SAME RULES SAME TONNAGE AS CURRENT WEAPON, NO CHARGE MECHANIC.

Plus when HAG30/HAG40 come around, they already have the issue worked out and tuned.

Edited by Gyrok, 25 June 2014 - 04:53 PM.

[TheMagician]

SilentWolff, on 24 June 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

, but I will tell you we beat up on SJR as well, so much so we can't even get them to play us anymore. Hopefully now that we have the players again, we will be around for future 12 man's and we all can put our money where our mouth is.

Funny. All I can remember is your team failing to ever compete, and having to quit after all the bragging you guys do. I see you merged with Ignotus, so we'll see what happens in this next RHoD season. I've offered 12v12 and 8v8 scrims to your team before. You've never accepted,except once about a year ago, and then you guys no-showed. We've never declined to do an 8v8/12v12 against you guys.

[Lightfoot]

I have never seen so many see-saw battles and close victories before, so it seems to be working well.

[Livewyr]

No E-Viagra needed here.

[Odins Fist]

CRY LESS

Edited by Odins Fist, 25 June 2014 - 07:36 PM.

[Igor Kozyrev]

This is wrong way of balancing. Nerf this, nerf that, buff that **** back. I say NO for such balancing. You wanna live longer? Ask piranhas to make aiming harder. That's all. That's where you'll need all your skill. Add crosshair bobbling in 1st person view as they added it in the 3rd person. BOOM! Everyone lives longer. BOOM! Targeting computer now really helps to aim, and not giving you some idiotic buffs. BOOM! No more devastating poptarts. BOOM! We have battles closer to canon than ever.

Yeah, and don't forget to make bobbling depending on mech's mass and speed. And… BOOM! Lights are no more as dangerous as assaults.

What a wonderful dream I have…

upd. And now I want to say something vulgar. Sorry for that.

PGI, you should play MWLL and goddamn steal some ideas from there. Directional jumps, weapons overheat, the way mechs twist their torso. Or hire one of the guys who made MWLL. They knew what they were doing.

Edited by Igor Kozyrev, 26 June 2014 - 12:35 AM.

[NotXanderpeach]

Before nerf clan weapons they should nerf this: http://mwomercs.com/...ing-mechs-sale/
This is still OP. So stop bullshitting and try something new. Try not to poptart, dear ggclothes.

[maniacos]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 25 June 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

Here's a radical idea then, nerf every weapon to do half damage.

Would help the TTK at least.

[maniacos]

Igor Kozyrev, on 26 June 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

Yeah, and don't forget to make bobbling depending on mech's mass and speed. And… BOOM! Lights are no more as dangerous as assaults.

Lights < Medium < Heavy < Assaults < Lights...

Sry, but that's how it should go balanced.

[Igor Kozyrev]

Jherek C, on 26 June 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

Lights < Medium < Heavy < Assaults < Lights...

Sry, but that's how it should go balanced.

Yes, you are right. Lights should be able to freely attack assaults and win 1v1 battle, but currently light mechs can **** up literally anyone who doesn't have ssrms. And the main problem with lights that they can shoot the bullseye on speeds far beyond 100 km/h.

Cuz, you know, assault mechs are big and it's hard to miss them. And you don't need your top speed to stay behind them, so you'll be able to aim pretty good.

Edited by Igor Kozyrev, 26 June 2014 - 01:36 AM.