141 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Dracol, on 02 July 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

That one point of heat is a 12.5% reduction per shot
That one point of damage is 20% less damage between the ML and the SL

That is very noticeable on the battlefield if one is in need of a close defense weapon

Using percentages doesn't make the end result less lackluster. +1 damage and -1 heat is miniscule, given the 250m range disadvantage.

[Screech]

Paul is just trying to get this game out of the clan small laser meta that we have all been living under for the longest time.

[Jonny Taco]

FupDup, on 02 July 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Using percentages doesn't make the end result less lackluster. +1 damage and -1 heat is miniscule, given the 250m range disadvantage.

Please keep ignoring the other advantages like faster burn time and shorter cool down... It's really making your point much for valid...

[AlmightyAeng]

Mizeur, on 02 July 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

I'm going to explain this without acronyms since it seems to be the source of our failure to communicate.

The changes to the Clan Extended Range Small Laser were necessary to give the Clan Small Pulse Laser a role. Pre-patch there was no reason to use the Clan Small Pulse Laser. Now there potentially is one.

And no reason to use the CERSL. Congrats, they've traded viability.

[Deathlike]

Screech, on 02 July 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Paul is just trying to get this game out of the clan small laser meta that we have all been living under for the longest time.

It's like Fight Club... except we can't speak of Fight Club.

Same deal.

[CygnusX7]

So how many more changes like this are coming?

[FupDup]

Mizeur, on 02 July 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

I'm going to explain this without acronyms since it seems to be the source of our failure to communicate.

The changes to the Clan Extended Range Small Laser were necessary to give the Clan Small Pulse Laser a role. Pre-patch there was no reason to use the Clan Small Pulse Laser. Now there is.

The Clan Small Pulse is still a bad weapon, though. All it got was a damage bump up to 4.4. The C Small Pulse still has a similar fate as the Inner Sphere Small Pulse, because it's just as heavy as the medium class laser (ER for Clans) but with way less range.

The C Small Pulse should have just gotten its own damage increase and duration reduction. Nerfing the ERSL was not a requirement for making the C Small Pulse be useful, and the CSPL still isn't going to be very good.

lartfor, on 02 July 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

Please keep ignoring the other advantages like faster burn time and shorter cool down... It's really making your point much for valid...

Faster burn time: How many people use the Inner Sphere Small Laser over the Inner Sphere Medium Laser? Or the IS SPL over the IS ML? Not many, and those that do are using suboptimal builds.

Cooldown time: See above. Also, use that cooltime time to vent heat and torso twist. Or, better yet, don't be exposed during that time.

Edited by FupDup, 02 July 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 02 July 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Using percentages doesn't make the end result less lackluster. +1 damage and -1 heat is miniscule, given the 250m range disadvantage.

You do realize that two IS Small Lasers has +1 damage and no heat difference AND has almost 3 times less range than IS Medium Laser right? Yet no one says IS SLas is dead. There are plenty of forumers who use IS SLas on their Lights. Compared to that, CERSlas got if off easy. 200 range is still twice as long as IS SLas.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 July 2014 - 10:41 AM.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 02 July 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

You do realize that 2 IS Slas has +1 damage and no heat difference AND has almost 3 times less range than IS Medium Laser right? Yet no one says IS Slas is dead.

I don't think anyone says the IS Small Laser is alive either.

[AlmightyAeng]

El Bandito, on 02 July 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

You do realize that 2 IS Slas has +1 damage and no heat difference AND has almost 3 times less range than IS Medium Laser right? Yet no one says IS Slas is dead.

'cause they don't need to, 'cause it's common knowledge? How often do you see a small laser boat that isn't a total fail?

[Jonny Taco]

Fup Dup

Are you really trying to argue that burn time and cool down are not important?

If so, please pull your ego out of your position and start over.

Edited by lartfor, 02 July 2014 - 10:40 AM.

[Prezimonto]

FupDup, on 02 July 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

No, it's not a good change. See my breakdown just above your post.

I disagree. You lose range, and need 2 hard points, but 2 for 1 they're the same tonnage for more damage and less heat.

They're still a decent option for mechs focusing on short range engagements and/or have a large amount of hardpoints, but not tons and want some extra tonnage for heat sinks.

They're more in line with each other now.

[Dracol]

FupDup, on 02 July 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

Cooldown time: See above. Also, use that cooltime time to vent heat and torso twist. Or, better yet, don't be exposed during that time.

Some people prefer builds where they can put the hurt onto some one longer.....

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 02 July 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

You do realize that 2 IS Slas has +1 damage and no heat difference AND has almost 3 times less range than IS Medium Laser right? Yet no one says IS Slas is dead.

No one says it most of the time, but it doesn't need to be said for it to be valid. How often do you see people using the SL at all? I can guarantee that you don't see it often, and the few times you do it's on a light mech. And in those cases, lights boating SL are generally inferior to ML lights.

[Ultimax]

Man where to begin.

1) cERSLAS = Unnecessarily nerfed. The Meta-dominance of the 0 endo, 0 ferro, 5 locked Jump Jet Novas is over. We can all go back to our business with Heavy/Assault mech poptarting without living in terror of these Novas.

2) cMPL = Now 10% hotter for a 6% more damage (?). The slightly shorter burn time is nice, it's still nearly 1 second. It did not need a heat increase, it is still a 2 ton weapon.

3) cLPL = Where are you?
cERLLAS = better range, lighter, near equal damage, less slots for a marginal increase in burn time (about as relevant as toe socks)
cERPPC = FLD, same weight, allows more time for torso twisting


PGI hates Large Pulse Lasers of any kind. They have some anti-wub directive that will be followed at all costs.

[FupDup]

lartfor, on 02 July 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

Fup Dup

Are you really trying to argue that burn time and cool down are not important?

If so, please pull your ego out of your position and start over.

I'm using case-studies of existing weapons where those two factors don't decide the victor, so it's a valid approach.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 02 July 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

No one says it most of the time, but it doesn't need to be said for it to be valid. How often do you see people using the SL at all? I can guarantee that you don't see it often, and the few times you do it's on a light mech. And in those cases, lights boating SL are generally inferior to ML lights.

I have seen Firestarters and Swaybacks use SLas without problems. In fact, I have better experience using Slas than Mlas on my Firestarters. The Slas is mostly limited to certain types of mechs but it is after all, the Slas.
It was never meant to be the workhorse, like how it was pre-patch. That honor should always go to the MLas.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 July 2014 - 10:46 AM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 02 July 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

No one says it most of the time, but it doesn't need to be said for it to be valid. How often do you see people using the SL at all? I can guarantee that you don't see it often, and the few times you do it's on a light mech. And in those cases, lights boating SL are generally inferior to ML lights.

I think in the case of the CSL, comparing it to the often loled @ IS Med Pulse Laser is more accurate. For .5 tons, you're doing better than a 2 ton weapon.

[FupDup]

Prezimonto, on 02 July 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

I disagree. You lose range, and need 2 hard points, but 2 for 1 they're the same tonnage for more damage and less heat.

They're still a decent option for mechs focusing on short range engagements and/or have a large amount of hardpoints, but not tons and want some extra tonnage for heat sinks.

The damage increase is +1. The heat decrease is -1. The range reduction is -250 meters. What you gain is orders of magnitude smaller than what you sacrifice.

Prezimonto, on 02 July 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

They're more in line with each other now.

You just used the words "in line." That sounds like something Paul would say. Normalize all the things!

[Mcgral18]

Ghost Badger, on 02 July 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

OP, 2/7 is February 7th.

Today is July 2nd, 7/2.

Oh, you silly 'Muricans. Biggest to smallest, or smallest to biggest. D/M/Y or Y/M/D. Same with your silly Imperial system.



As for the topic, why did the MPL get such a large heat nerf?! It was supposed to have 4 heat in the first place, and now nerfed to 5.5. For .4 extra damage, I would never expect 1.5 additional heat. At least it's less than a second burn time now, still not quite enough.