155 replies to this topic

[Creovex]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 July 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Whats most probable is mm isn't broken and something else is to account for it. Could it be high elo? maybe but seen lots of high elo matches too. What i do know like most anyone who has played awhile is keyboard players do not change direction together in a timely fashion and I watched some extreme pivots in a few of these matches. Pugs take time to move as many are not concentrating on the chat window. Past that in two of the matches we had narc on targets and they quickly moved into ecm cover before missles flew. Yes it could be a fluke but only time will tell.

I do know how many times you told me the same things but the game changed to counter it against your adamant wishes. Im just happy solo que is in and the sky didn't fall like you told us it would.

Sorry but your pug assessment could be hands down the dumbest thread I have read since closed beta.... only one that may have been dumber is the two people in an Atlas D-DC thread way back when.......

Snap turns take no effort, especially on cap modes...
"Where to next?"
"Eps"
Wow!!!! All the pugs turn to Epsilon. .. amazing.. not. Stop assuming us pug players are all first time players running trial mechs and don't understand tactics...

[Sandpit]

Creovex, on 06 July 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

Wow!!!! All the pugs turn to Epsilon. .. amazing.. not. Stop assuming us pug players are all first time players running trial mechs and don't understand tactics...

Never really thought of it that way but yea, it seems like his opinion of PUGs and their abilities is actually quite low

[Ghogiel]

KharnZor, on 06 July 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

Funny, i've been in the group que alot (in a group normally between 3 and 7) and we've beaten almost (i'll get you one day HoL haha) every 12 man there is out there so far.

Almost :3

[Marmon Rzohr]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 July 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Well I see it was already covered above. There is nothing to stop the determined from synching into a solo que.

In theory this is true. There is no system in place to stop a group of X people dropping onto the same team if they are in queue at the same time.

However given the way the system creates matches this is highly unlikely for a large group of people. There is no way to can coax the system into putting you on the same team. It can happen by chance if there are players dropping at the same time with very similar ELO scores and there is relatively small number of people already waiting for a match.

It's pure chance though.

So while you truly might have ended up against a big pile of players who know each other, it's just bad luck.

There is also the fact that sometimes people who know each other and use the same TS server will join the same channel when they see they are on the same team, thereby making a "premade".

[Deathlike]

The level of play in the solo queue is FAR lower than the group queue. People are still learning to drive their mech... target mechs with 'R', and still learning the maps.

The only method to success is properly sheparding as many as you can.

The solo queue: The Cat Lady had the right idea.

[Wintersdark]

Yeonne Greene, on 06 July 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

On occasion, I've taken charge of pick-up-game teams and lead them into stomping victories or incredible comebacks. All it takes is a little intel and intuition on what the enemy team is doing and for your allies to trust your calls enough to act on them. They tend to focus fire on their own because they want the kill credit on that cherry red Warhawk or Atlas.

True story:
In over 4000 PUG matches, I almost never failed to win a PUG match where someone stood up with a plan from the start and lead throughout the match. That's by text, too, not voice. Just some random player, sometimes part of a premade, sometimes not. Sometimes good plans, sometimes not.

Now, that's not counting the guy who suddenly pipes up mid battle telling people to do something, that's a different kettle of fish as players at that point already have an idea what they're doing. Be it a good one or not, too many players are otherwise occupied. It often helps, but isn't as effective.

But almost every single time that someone has piped up from match start even with a bad plan, and followed through all throughout the match we've won.

Organization doesn't require a premade, and it does win battles.



Edit: I had said never, but that was incorrect. I do recall one match where Mister Blasterman took leadership - it was an Assault match on Tourmaline, some time ago - and all was going well when we where caught totally by surprise by a truly masterful flank attack.

Anyways, the moral of this post was that totally random PUG teams can and do have great organization - all it takes is someone to stand up and do it.

Edited by Wintersdark, 06 July 2014 - 01:37 PM.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 06 July 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

Edit: I had said never, but that was incorrect. I do recall one match where Mister Blasterman took leadership - it was an Assault match on Tourmaline, some time ago - and all was going well when we where caught totally by surprise by a truly masterful flank attack.

I believe the chat went like this:

Mister Blastman said:

Go here.

Shoot things.

Win.

Edited by Deathlike, 06 July 2014 - 01:46 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 06 July 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

I believe the chat went like this:

Actually, I seem to recall that's pretty much how it went.

Leading pugs isn't hard. Maybe in the Underhive it is, but beyond that simply "go here, shoot things, win" works more often than not. All a pug team needs to win against another pug team is organization (and not even much of it!!) Throw the cats in the same direction, and PROFIT!

Edited by Wintersdark, 06 July 2014 - 01:48 PM.

[Roland]

The biggest thing you can do for pugs is to get them to realize that mindlessly rushing center is not a good idea.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 06 July 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

Actually, I seem to recall that's pretty much how it went.

Leading pugs isn't hard. Maybe in the Underhive it is, but beyond that simply "go here, shoot things, win" works more often than not. All a pug team needs to win against another pug team is organization (and not even much of it!!) Throw the cats in the same direction, and PROFIT!

Seriously, I hate the command map interface... but when people are given a location to goto and shoot things... they will follow more often than not. Even the underhive follows.

The only players that complain are the first to arrive there while there's no backup behind them.

Roland, on 06 July 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

The biggest thing you can do for pugs is to get them to realize that mindlessly rushing center is not a good idea.

Well, the only exception is Mordor... while I threaten them that they'll die (by the enemy) if they don't.

It can work.. just give them an incentive...

[Screech]

Wintersdark, on 06 July 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

Actually, I seem to recall that's pretty much how it went.

Leading pugs isn't hard. Maybe in the Underhive it is, but beyond that simply "go here, shoot things, win" works more often than not. All a pug team needs to win against another pug team is organization (and not even much of it!!) Throw the cats in the same direction, and PROFIT!

I have been amazed how easy it is to get folks to do things by the smallest suggestions. Mind you not every time but more often then not by a wide margin. Instead of starting out by issuing orders start by giving information of what the enemy is or will be doing. If people react you know it is worth it, if not you are not wasting your time.

[Roland]

Deathlike, on 06 July 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Well, the only exception is Mordor... while I threaten them that they'll die (by the enemy) if they don't.

It can work.. just give them an incentive...

Tera Therma is the single WORST map to try and rush center with pugs.

And there's absolutely no reason to go there... You don't get anything for going to center on that map, except ridiculously limited mobility.

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 06 July 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

Tera Therma is the single WORST map to try and rush center with pugs.

And there's absolutely no reason to go there... You don't get anything for going to center on that map, except ridiculously limited mobility.

I disagree

You get the high ground, shortcut access to any portion of the map, and plenty of room to maneuver.

The problem with going center on terra comes from players wanting to stop right at the entrance bottlenecking their entire team. 2-3 mechs get to the entrance and stop, preventing anyone behind them from moving forward, shooting back, etc.

As long as you push ALLLLLLL the way into the volcano it's a good position. Standing at the entrance gets you demolished.

[Deathlike]

Roland, on 06 July 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

Tera Therma is the single WORST map to try and rush center with pugs.

And there's absolutely no reason to go there... You don't get anything for going to center on that map, except ridiculously limited mobility.

It probably is, but for some players... understanding how to control sections that they should want to control makes them more adamant to take the position, rather than jumping off at the nearest exit.

I personally don't like Mordor or its thunderdome, but people respond to these things whether or not I agree with the idea.

[MischiefSC]

Center in Terra Therma is the best location if you are smart. You can control the whole map, fast flank to any location. You set up firing line to give best possible focus fire on the ones and twos that trickle in.

The issue is the spineless mewling candyass pu$$ies who stop when they realize someone is actually shooting at them.

Games are won by superior concentration of firepower. Center of Terra Therma is made for it. Problem is that it favors the bold and most players are pansies.

Edited for spelling because this website hates mobile.

Edited by MischiefSC, 06 July 2014 - 08:27 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Screech, on 06 July 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

I have been amazed how easy it is to get folks to do things by the smallest suggestions. Mind you not every time but more often then not by a wide margin. Instead of starting out by issuing orders start by giving information of what the enemy is or will be doing. If people react you know it is worth it, if not you are not wasting your time.

It is. You always see people complaining that "PUG's don't listen and just scatter everywhere" but in almost every case I've personally witnessed over years of play, people will follow suggestions when:
1) They are given early - before the players have already decided there is in fact no plan and launched off on their own missions
2) They are given politely - because nobody follows the ****** who screams at people and berates them, even if he did so in previous matches
3) If the orders are unusual (as compared to the Standard PUG Tactics for that map - they differ in different Elo bands, but generally speaking all maps have a "Go here, fight!", "Hold this position", or "Race around the map as quickly as possible!") the would be commander briefly says why.

People are amendable to direction, most want it. In fact, it's not uncommon for me to see people asking "Is there a plan?" at the start of matches.

[MischiefSC]

You gotta pug like a thug. Hang with your homies, even if you dont like them. You come at the enemy with the goal of dragging them with you to hell.

[KharnZor]

MischiefSC, on 06 July 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

You gotta pug like a thug. Hang with your homies, even if you dont like them. You come at the enemy with the goal of dragging them with you to hell.

get fired up!

[MischiefSC]

KharnZor, on 06 July 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

get fired up!

That is exactly what I do. YOU GOTTA WANT IT!

[Mudhutwarrior]

Marmon Rzohr, on 06 July 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

In theory this is true. There is no system in place to stop a group of X people dropping onto the same team if they are in queue at the same time.

However given the way the system creates matches this is highly unlikely for a large group of people. There is no way to can coax the system into putting you on the same team. It can happen by chance if there are players dropping at the same time with very similar ELO scores and there is relatively small number of people already waiting for a match.

It's pure chance though.

So while you truly might have ended up against a big pile of players who know each other, it's just bad luck.

There is also the fact that sometimes people who know each other and use the same TS server will join the same channel when they see they are on the same team, thereby making a "premade".

Agree somewhat except I have had my buddy who plays in groups say its topic of discussion and its being done. Seems if you all drop at once odds are good you will see one side of a match. The first 24 hours of solo was like gameplay in the beginning of beta and since gone steadily downhill. The denial its happening is just like before till the steiners mad it a standard synch drop party advertising on this very forum.

I think more than anything else just seeing all those names who for months ranked on having a solo que or voip in game playing in solo que says it all. They defend these actions here by obfuscating the truth in the forums. All the real top tier players wont even come here now so the new guys get to learn from the bottom of the barrel. Its an issue PGI could address but would be a time consuming project cleaning house. Probably best thing to do is get in game voip sooner than later and make it clear that gaming the system for xp gains will be dealt with. I am sure someone could find the patterns in play that show it and who/groups are doing it. Then penalize them either by group or individual.

I think the whole emphasis on competitive gaming has permeated every level of play to the point many who are just average players feel gaming the system is the only way to compete. It happens in about any endeavor in life so why would it be different here? Can't deny the simple logic in that though many will try.