125 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

*waves hand*

This is the black hole you are looking for.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Everyone has heard the saying that perception is reality and there is no greater truth than that statement.

Opinion is an extension of a person's perception of events, objects, ideas, etc. Therefore opinion is absolute truth, at least for the person holding that opinion.

Additionally mass perception also becomes accepted fact, whether or not it is indeed fact. For example, the world is flat, until it is perceived as being round.

This of course begs to question, is what we perceive as reality, actually real.

Anyway, do I have anyone's head hurting yet?

[BLOOD WOLF]

Viktor Drake, on 11 July 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Everyone has heard the saying that perception is reality and there is no greater truth than that statement.

Opinion is an extension of a person's perception of events, objects, ideas, etc. Therefore opinion is absolute truth, at least for the person holding that opinion.

Additionally mass perception also becomes accepted fact, whether or not it is indeed fact. For example, the world is flat, until it is perceived as being round.

This of course begs to question, is what we perceive as reality, actually real.

Anyway, do I have anyone's head hurting yet?

that is very deep.

[Void Angel]

And utterly untrue.

[Heeden]

Void Angel, on 11 July 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

And utterly untrue.

Yeah well, that's just, like, your opinion man.

[Void Angel]

This is the postmodernist idea of truth as a social construct. The problem is that it begs the question, and is just a more sophisticated way of saying that everyone's opinion is equally valid. This leads to a contradiction: if my opinion - that there are ways to get at, or at least approximate, objective truth - is true, then my opinion is equally valid with, yet contradicts his opinion. If such a contradiction is valid thought, then all the rules of reason unravel, and we can't be certain of knowing anything - including that truth is socially constructed in the first place, which invalidates the entire position.

[Heeden]

Void Angel, on 11 July 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

This is the postmodernist idea of truth as a social construct. The problem is that it begs the question, and is just a more sophisticated way of saying that everyone's opinion is equally valid. This leads to a contradiction: if my opinion - that there are ways to get at, or at least approximate, objective truth - is true, then my opinion is equally valid with, yet contradicts his opinion. If such a contradiction is valid thought, then all the rules of reason unravel, and we can't be certain of knowing anything - including that truth is socially constructed in the first place, which invalidates the entire position.

That sounds about right, although when your ruminations end with the very foundations of knowledge crumbling you've probably gone slightly beyond the bounds of usefulness.

[Joseph Mallan]

Viktor Drake, on 11 July 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Everyone has heard the saying that perception is reality and there is no greater truth than that statement.

Opinion is an extension of a person's perception of events, objects, ideas, etc. Therefore opinion is absolute truth, at least for the person holding that opinion.

Additionally mass perception also becomes accepted fact, whether or not it is indeed fact. For example, the world is flat, until it is perceived as being round.

This of course begs to question, is what we perceive as reality, actually real.

Anyway, do I have anyone's head hurting yet?

Amateur.

[Void Angel]

Heeden, on 11 July 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

That sounds about right, although when your ruminations end with the very foundations of knowledge crumbling you've probably gone slightly beyond the bounds of usefulness.

=) And of truth. In the end, they're asking the impossible - using reason to disprove reason itself. People who hold that objective truth is totally inaccessible used to ask people, "how do you know I even exist?" Kind of a reverse solipsism, when I think about it. They don't ask it too often any more, because while it works on people who don't have philosophical training, too many people have learned to give the proper response:

"Whom shall I say is asking?"

[Heeden]

Void Angel, on 11 July 2014 - 06:52 PM, said:

=) And of truth. In the end, they're asking the impossible - using reason to disprove reason itself. People who hold that objective truth is totally inaccessible used to ask people, "how do you know I even exist?" Kind of a reverse solipsism, when I think about it. They don't ask it too often any more, because while it works on people who don't have philosophical training, too many people have learned to give the proper response:

"Whom shall I say is asking?"

From experience I can say your existence is a certainty, though your nature is unknown and ultimately, perhaps, unknowable.

[krash27]

Damn it would be fun to be sitting at a table swilling beers having this discussion in person. It loses something on a forum.

Edited by krash27, 11 July 2014 - 07:00 PM.

[InspectorG]

The root of the 'problem' is humans think in symbols. Symbolic thought =/= reality.

But i wanna discuss fictional videogames, not philosophy nor physiology at this time.

[BLOOD WOLF]

krash27, on 11 July 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:

Damn it would be fun to be sitting at a table swilling beers having this discussion in person. It loses something on a forum.

well said

[Joseph Mallan]

krash27, on 11 July 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:

Damn it would be fun to be sitting at a table swilling beers having this discussion in person. It loses something on a forum.

You gotta drink in true style. By the Pitcher... or as my friends and I call em... Dwarven Shot glasses!

[Void Angel]

krash27, on 11 July 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:

Damn it would be fun to be sitting at a table swilling beers having this discussion in person. It loses something on a forum.

All conversations do; sometimes for good, and sometimes for ill - sometimes both.

[krash27]

So what beverages would fil said dwarven shot glasses? Rickers? A dark ale?

Edited by krash27, 11 July 2014 - 07:18 PM.

[Void Angel]

InspectorG, on 11 July 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:

The root of the 'problem' is humans think in symbols. Symbolic thought =/= reality.

But i wanna discuss fictional videogames, not philosophy nor physiology at this time.

It's only a significant problem if those symbols cannot be used to approximate reality to the extent that errors are imperceptible. Paradoxically, if you could prove that to be true, you would have shown that at least some of reality could be approximated through the symbolic logic of your thought. =)
Anyhow, I'm gonna go perform some justified homicide - don't worry; they'll be Clanners, mostly. =)

[Davers]

Heeden, on 11 July 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

Yeah well, that's just, like, your opinion man.

Did this thread really go 4 pages before someone said this?

[BLOOD WOLF]

Davers, on 11 July 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

Did this thread really go 4 pages before someone said this?

why do you say that? I am curious

[krash27]

Heeden, on 11 July 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

Yeah well, that's just, like, your opinion man.

**** I almost missed this reference!
The Big Lebowski indeed!