364 replies to this topic

[Kyle Wright]

xXBagheeraXx, on 13 July 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

People also keep forgetting that.

A. In the actual timeline these events took place, Clan mechs were supposed to wipe the floor with Equivalent IS mechs. That that is not the case in game right now speaks volumes towards balance.

B. Yeah the firepower can be pretty obscene. After all the Dire wolf is THE BEST ARMED MECH pretty much in the lore. But we have yet to have any "big gun" Is heavies and assaults to be introduced yet. Wait till dual ac20, or Dual Gauss king crabs are running around with large standard engines...IS OP AC20 OP NERF PLZ. Quad UAc5 Maulers anyone?

We dont have any good equivalent IS mechs at the moment, cept for the Victor and really well driven Cataphracts. Wait a while, let the clans settle, let the cbill variants come out so all the nay-sayers can see how easy it is to get CT rekt in a dire wolf and most of all LET THEM INTRODUCE SOME NASITER IS MECHS...I'm also pretty sure that buffs to is weapons, especially the autocannons (crosses fingers for burst fire and velocity buffs) are in the pipes. They would be kinda stupid not to.



Take note as to where the majority of your ammo is placed. WHen i see Madcats packing anything like that, or dual lrm20s I actually shoot the arms off. THey have good survivability with the Clan Xl engines but as far as getting thier firepower gimped? They are horrible. Losing a side torso with that build pretty much negates most of your armament, and heat sinks.

here you Lore nuthuggers go again. If we are going to do lore them most of us should be forced into mediums and heavies, with assaults being reserved for commanders and royalty as they are so rare.

[Lefty Lucy]

Gyrok, on 13 July 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

Yes, they are...you all knew this from Day 1 that they were announced...and? For that, they pay for the inability to change engines...which for most is a burden, the Stormcrow is about the only mech that did not get a crap draw on weight versus speed and pod space.

That's simply not true. The Timberwolf has the maximum amount of pod space for a mech of its speed and armor capacity. Can't get any better by going lighter or heavier *at that speed*.

[Vassago Rain]

But I've crushed you with Kong.

[Peter2000]

Ray Razor,

What I and some other competitive players (e.g. Adiuvo) are trying to say is that Gyrok most certainly does not speak for "competitive ladder players" not only in his assertion that Clans (notably the Timberwolf: Adi has explained the reasons in great detail) are not OP, but also in some of his more absurd statements including the idea that we don't need casuals at all. At the risk of falling into the same trap, though, I'd say that top competitive players feel the opposite way almost to a man (the ones I know and speak to regularly do, at least).

My main purpose in writing this is to ask you (and others reading this thread) not to judge us by what he writes.

Thank you!

[Gyrok]

MischiefSC, on 13 July 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

Okay. So we'll go toe to toe, you in an Orion, me in a TW. You have to put 80pts + on my CT, I have to put 60pts + on your side torso. Let's see who gets to the chewy center first! You are comparing apples to apples there with XLs in both for the same speed, right? Of course, with the XL in, you don't have that AC20 in the side torso. I do have a UAC20 in my arm however. Plus 4 (or 5) energy hardpoints and 3 missile hardpoints. To make it fair I won't take JJs, since the Orion can't. We'll load them with comparable equipment even; XL, Endo, FF. So we've got the same tonnage available. Or however you want to do it. Just same engine size on both. Just to be sporting you can take your 375 as an STD. I'll pick up premium time, we'll do it as a 1x1. However you want to cut it. Not fair you say? Okay, how about a Victor? You got a DS, right? Load that bad boy up - Drop an XL 375 in it. You'll be a bit less maneuverable but at least it's closer to the same weight. That's really your argument, right? 1x1, TW vs Orion or even TW vs Victor. You just need to have something with a comparable engine. Or is that 'unfair'? Okay. Call me sporting. Load either mech up however you want. Whatever engine, whatever weapons, whatever loadout. Then we'll 1x1, as many matches in a row as you can take. I'm not even a 'competitive league player' by any stretch. I am however 100% confident that I will rock you up one side and down the other until the sounds of your mech exploding start to bore me. Want to go poptart? Sure, I'll load up ERPPCs and with better speed chew you at a range you literally are doing 1/2 damage at and I'm still hitting just shy of full damage. Brawling? No worries, UAC20 and 2ERLLs, or 4xSRM4As plus 6 ERMLs will absolutely crush any brawling build either can field. Again. Absolutely. I'm not wanting the TW nerfed - I want everything else buffed. Your arguments however are facetious. 1v1 the TW will flat out hands down crush any mech even approximately in its weight class with even approximately skilled pilots. It will curb stomp them, then go bang their girlfriend. 1v2? Less reliable. In a 12man v 12man? Going to depend way more on who's in what, map, etc. that's fair to say of any build however. For the tonnage though, 1v1, Clan mechs are, as a given rule, better. Especially with an above-average pilot. Faster, survives damage better. half the trouble people have with the TW is that it's fast enough to get them *into* trouble - ahead of their teammates and alone, outnumbered. If it were slower and people couldn't get out of position as easily it would for many people literally be a better mech.

Actually, I would take you in a highlander 733C against your TW, rigged for brawling...when do you want to do this?

[YueFei]

Gyrok, on 13 July 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Actually, I would take you in a highlander 733C against your TW, rigged for brawling...when do you want to do this?

Ehhh.... wouldn't he just SRM you to death from 300+ meters out with his superior cSRM range, using superior speed to dictate range?

[FupDup]

YueFei, on 13 July 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

Ehhh.... wouldn't he just SRM you to death from 300+ meters out with his superior cSRM range, using superior speed to dictate range?

Clan SRMs are hardcapped at 270m just like IS ones. You're thinking of Streaks (which go out to 360m for Clans).

[YueFei]

FupDup, on 13 July 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

Clan SRMs are hardcapped at 270m just like IS ones. You're thinking of Streaks (which go out to 360m for Clans).

Oh you're right!

[Gyrok]

Peter2000, on 13 July 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

Ray Razor,

What I and some other competitive players (e.g. Adiuvo) are trying to say is that Gyrok most certainly does not speak for "competitive ladder players" not only in his assertion that Clans (notably the Timberwolf: Adi has explained the reasons in great detail) are not OP, but also in some of his more absurd statements including the idea that we don't need casuals at all. At the risk of falling into the same trap, though, I'd say that top competitive players feel the opposite way almost to a man (the ones I know and speak to regularly do, at least).

My main purpose in writing this is to ask you (and others reading this thread) not to judge us by what he writes.

Thank you!

Let me say this...my attitude toward casuals is not anger, nor is it spite.

As a game designer myself, I understand the purpose of casuals.

However, my stance is that if they want to sit around and complain about something being OP, they can have their part of the forest and go dance and shoot lasers in the sky all they want. They just need to stay out of the deep end of the pool, because they might drown.

Now, as a game designer, I also know a lot about metrics.

For example...your average competitive crowd will fund this game to 80% of the funding it receives in the F2P model. Your average schmuck who just wants to play big stompy robots online with funny paints and camo schemes will spend, on average, $20 per year on this game.

Your average comp player will spend 10-20 fold more.

Now, as I said, I appreciate the casuals...they are free content for the others to shoot in a PVP game. However...they have their place the same as anyone else. If you let the casuals, who make approximately ~60% of the crowd and pay for only 20% of the funding, steer the boat...you end up with a massive crowd of casuals who barely fund a dying game. I know this first hand, as I saw it happen to an MMO called City of Heroes. Lots of casuals, just enough revenue to stay afloat, game dies.

So, if you want to run the comp crowd off...be my guest, but understand, this game will die without their dollars. Point blank.

As for these guys chiming in to talk about the TW is OP or whatever, that is their prerogative, however, I would like to point out. None of them are actually in the business and none of them actually look at metrics and limitations in the same manner as someone like myself would.

They claim it is OP because X, Y, or Z. I have provided FACTUAL information, which they cannot dispute, nor refute...that shows they are wrong. They cannot provide a counter argument, other than to say that they are all willing to line up in TWs to try to kick my ass to prove me wrong.

My point still stands...none of you can provide any information to support YOUR claims, and the burden of proof rests on you. I do not want to see another one of you pipe up in a thread like this about how clan mechs are OP until you can show a shred of proof.

/rant.

[B0oN]

Question :
How can there be a crowd that calls itself "competetive" if this game doesn´t even offer competetive netcode/hitreg ?
No foundation, no house ...

[Kyle Wright]

Gyrok, on 13 July 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

Let me say this...my attitude toward casuals is not anger, nor is it spite.

As a game designer myself, I understand the purpose of casuals.

However, my stance is that if they want to sit around and complain about something being OP, they can have their part of the forest and go dance and shoot lasers in the sky all they want. They just need to stay out of the deep end of the pool, because they might drown.

Now, as a game designer, I also know a lot about metrics.

For example...your average competitive crowd will fund this game to 80% of the funding it receives in the F2P model. Your average schmuck who just wants to play big stompy robots online with funny paints and camo schemes will spend, on average, $20 per year on this game.

Your average comp player will spend 10-20 fold more.

Now, as I said, I appreciate the casuals...they are free content for the others to shoot in a PVP game. However...they have their place the same as anyone else. If you let the casuals, who make approximately ~60% of the crowd and pay for only 20% of the funding, steer the boat...you end up with a massive crowd of casuals who barely fund a dying game. I know this first hand, as I saw it happen to an MMO called City of Heroes. Lots of casuals, just enough revenue to stay afloat, game dies.

So, if you want to run the comp crowd off...be my guest, but understand, this game will die without their dollars. Point blank.

As for these guys chiming in to talk about the TW is OP or whatever, that is their prerogative, however, I would like to point out. None of them are actually in the business and none of them actually look at metrics and limitations in the same manner as someone like myself would.

They claim it is OP because X, Y, or Z. I have provided FACTUAL information, which they cannot dispute, nor refute...that shows they are wrong. They cannot provide a counter argument, other than to say that they are all willing to line up in TWs to try to kick my ass to prove me wrong.

My point still stands...none of you can provide any information to support YOUR claims, and the burden of proof rests on you. I do not want to see another one of you pipe up in a thread like this about how clan mechs are OP until you can show a shred of proof.

/rant.

Dude people have posted stuff on two seperate forums and you sit there and invalidate it because its not what you want. That or you try some b.s. comparison with a mech that is inferior everyway but north and act like you are Mecha Jesus. Ill be completely honest until the MWO tournament No one in my unit knew who the heck you were or that Clan Wolf Delta Galaxy exist.

[Adiuvo]

Gyrok, on 13 July 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

As for these guys chiming in to talk about the TW is OP or whatever, that is their prerogative, however, I would like to point out. None of them are actually in the business and none of them actually look at metrics and limitations in the same manner as someone like myself would.

They claim it is OP because X, Y, or Z. I have provided FACTUAL information, which they cannot dispute, nor refute...that shows they are wrong. They cannot provide a counter argument, other than to say that they are all willing to line up in TWs to try to kick my ass to prove me wrong.

My point still stands...none of you can provide any information to support YOUR claims, and the burden of proof rests on you. I do not want to see another one of you pipe up in a thread like this about how clan mechs are OP until you can show a shred of proof.

I guess you missed it. That's OK.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3555976

There you go.

[Cavendish]

I wish these "Clans are OP!" posts could be more specific in that what 99% seems to claim is that the Timber Wolf is OP, not the "Clan mechs".

As a light pilot I would like to see anyone claim that the 107 km/h Kit Fox and Adder are OP in any way shape or form.

[Kyle Wright]

Cavendish, on 13 July 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

I wish these "Clans are OP!" posts could be more specific in that what 99% seems to claim is that the Timber Wolf is OP, not the "Clan mechs".

As a light pilot I would like to see anyone claim that the 107 km/h Kit Fox and Adder are OP in any way shape or form.

See you sir are absolutely right. And I'll tell you what tomorrow I will go back and reformulate my thread earlier to only account for the Timber and partial count for the Dire do to the FED and convergence stuff.

[MischiefSC]

Gyrok, on 13 July 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Actually, I would take you in a highlander 733C against your TW, rigged for brawling...when do you want to do this?

I will absolutely spot you the 20 ton advantage. Load it however you want, we won't even say you've got to take an XL, in spite of your previous arguments about balance. I just bought some MC, specifically to buy premium time. Sent you a friend request, I have to sleep right now but I'll catch you online tomorrow. You can pick the map too.

YueFei, on 13 July 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

Ehhh.... wouldn't he just SRM you to death from 300+ meters out with his superior cSRM range, using superior speed to dictate range?

Or ERLLs, chew him down until he looks edible, close in and blow him up with whatever suits my fancy? Given that I'm faster and have better range? Could just go ERPPCs, blow chunks off at 800m away. I wonder if this isn't a bad time to try CStreaks?

Nah, best to stick with what you know.

[Adiuvo]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 July 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

While I respect your skill, and your team, I'm sorry , that build is hardly a game changer. It's solid, but no Clan MEch is "tanky", and hardly unstoppable. Have you "Lords" deigned to actually dump the meta as a unit, and run those builds?

And more accurately, to judge effectiveness, have you tried running those builds as PUGs, and seen the success. Because at the end of the day, it ain't the metal that you or SJR run that does the damage, it's the coordination. If you have taken that build out, dropped 50-100 matches in it, and have utterly dominated as a PUG, then yeah, maybe it's stronger than I am giving credit.

But seriously, whether running Clan Mechs myself, or IS, the only time I have been rolled my TWolves have been by HoL or SJR... and they all were ppc/gauss toting toaster pastries. And it was always between 8-12 of you guys. Do any of you HoL guys even drop solo anymore? (I ask, simply because I can't recall the last time I have seen you guys without at least a 4 man)

I missed this earlier.

Yes we've ran that build repeatedly and won 95% of our games.

Yes we solo drop. I solo drop. Heimdelight solo drops. P33p3rs solo drops. Proton solo drops. You get the idea.

[Elkfire]

Is it just me, or is this entire thread a thinly veiled e-peen measuring contest?

[Cavendish]

Elkfire, on 14 July 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

Is it just me, or is this entire thread a thinly veiled e-peen measuring contest?

I dont think any members of the top units, where some of the posters come from, feels any need to measure their epeen. It is pretty solid fact that they are the current top dogs and know how to judge a mech and how the meta builds apply to those mechs.

[Sun Cobra]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 July 2014 - 04:21 PM, said:

While I respect your skill, and your team, I'm sorry , that build is hardly a game changer. It's solid, but no Clan MEch is "tanky", and hardly unstoppable. Have you "Lords" deigned to actually dump the meta as a unit, and run those builds?

And more accurately, to judge effectiveness, have you tried running those builds as PUGs, and seen the success. Because at the end of the day, it ain't the metal that you or SJR run that does the damage, it's the coordination. If you have taken that build out, dropped 50-100 matches in it, and have utterly dominated as a PUG, then yeah, maybe it's stronger than I am giving credit.

But seriously, whether running Clan Mechs myself, or IS, the only time I have been rolled my TWolves have been by HoL or SJR...
and they all were ppc/gauss toting toaster pastries. And it was always between 8-12 of you guys. Do any of you HoL guys even drop solo anymore? (I ask, simply because I can't recall the last time I have seen you guys without at least a 4 man)

Since the patch, almost half of my drops have been in the solo queue. In fact... I consider myself the king of the solo queue. From my experience, I can say that both my brawler variant of the timberwolf (pretty much exactly what Adiuvo posted) and my sniper variant are superior to any other brawler or sniper I have ever used. That's why I use them when I drop solo, knowing that I will have to carry my team in every match. I play to win, both in pubs and competitive play. I use the mech that will give me the biggest advantage possible, which is why I use a timberwolf. I can say with complete confidence that it is overpowered in the hands of a skilled pilot. A pilot who can make the most of any mech is best in a timberwolf. The reasons why have already been explained by Adi. And seriously... Why does anyone take Gyrok's forum posts seriously anymore? He has been shot down more times than any poster on this forum. I'm not going to say any more on this thread. If Gyrok wants answers he can find me on the HOL ts.

[627]

Adiuvo, on 13 July 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

?... like really, I don't get what you're saying at all.

We don't use them in comp because they aren't available for cbills yet. No other teams can either, so it's not like it's an uneven playing field. This rule was put in through the league admins, ie., the competitive community made this rule for itself. It's not like PGI banned clans or anything...

Just a short question, then why is it allowed to use hero mechs? What is the difference?