372 replies to this topic

[jaxjace]

lockwoodx, on 19 July 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Pffft Lights will never be easy targets, but if they leg hum now they're asking for disaster. Lights have been pigeon holed into the scouting roles they should play... and no more of this 400+ damage crap from Raven 3Ls.

Jenner F with the 6 m lasers and jj and heat sinks is and always has been the snarly honeybadger of lights. Its relatively easy to get 800 dmg in it with speed tweak and xl300

[DivineEvil]

Assaults require balls. Heavies require skills. Mediums require patience. Lights require each of those.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Mister Blastman, on 23 July 2014 - 06:46 PM, said:

Perhaps only the light 'mechs should be given stuff like strikes... Maybe that'd be an incentive to have more.

That's more like a penalty to the other weight classes. You can't really take something that was available to all and then suddenly make it exclusive to one class. This is especially so with the upcoming and unknown changes to Modules Slots and possibly to Modules themselves.

Lights being in its current state is a symptom of fundamental flaws in the game itself. This is supposed to be a BattleTech game. It is not. This is a FPS with Mechs. The least used Mechs are the least efficient weapons. Lights have the worst payload to armor ratio so they are the least efficient weapon to bring to a deathmatch.

Of all the temporary band-**** regarding boosting the Light pilot population the most effective one would be increased C-bill rewards. Significantly increased C-Bill rewards. Including, but not limited to:

C-Bill rewards for spotting for all weapons - not just LRM's.
C-Bill reward for using BAP.
C-Bill for capping bases.
C-Bill for capping objectives.
Different C-Bill valuation for Kills.
Different C-Bill valuation for Assists.
Different C-Bill valuation for Component Destruction as a whole.
Different C-Bill valuation based on which Component you destroy.
C-Bill bonus for different damage tiers.
Different C-Bill valuation for UAV detection.

Pays to Play.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 23 July 2014 - 07:48 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Adiuvo, on 23 July 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

That there's this few in queue means they're being sucked up instantly by the matchmaker. Which also means that there are hardly any lights playing.

The fact that I get matches significantly faster as opposed to waiting 5-7 minutes for a solo game in a cataphract means I make more money in a light mech.


Not that this comment has anything to do with the subject at hand, just kinda of "this incidentally also happens" thing.

[Delas Ting Usee]

While dropping last night the queues were such = lights-6%, Mediums-16%,Heavies,48%, Assaults-30%
Which of course led to a game where I and my team faced off against FOUR dire wolves and oh, we only had 2 Assaults on or team.
Working as intended PGI! Way to go! I applaud the way you stick your head in the sand!
So many suggestions on how to possibly come up with a fix for matchmaker have propped up in the forums and fallen on deaf ears...it's like when you meet really smart people who are also dumb (maybe too strong a work) ahem, have blind spots.
But seriously, work on Community warfare first, folks have been waiting a long time for it. Then get the 2 maps up and running and fix or rid the world of this 4x3 fallacy, it's broken.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

mwhighlander, on 23 July 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

The fact that I get matches significantly faster as opposed to waiting 5-7 minutes for a solo game in a cataphract means I make more money in a light mech.


Not that this comment has anything to do with the subject at hand, just kinda of "this incidentally also happens" thing.

Respectable Light pilots will always be effective and will have steady XP/C-Bill gain because they'll adapt and tweak their game-play to the new game environment. That doesn't really do anything in regards to boosting Light pilot population.

For the beginner/average Light pilot who haven't yet mastered how to do A, B, C, D, simultaneously are the people we want to encourage to keep at it. The best way to do that is to give them a higher valuation of C-Bills to <enter criteria> for each attempt.

The side-effect of the regular/respectable Light pilots earning more at the same time is something I think we can all accept. Everyone needs Light pilots in their matches so any complaints about Lights earning more is QQ for the sake of QQ.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 23 July 2014 - 07:45 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 23 July 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

That's more like a penalty to the other weight classes. You can't really take something that was available to all and then suddenly make it exclusive to one class. This is especially so with the upcoming and unknown changes to Modules Slots and possibly to Modules themselves.

Boo hoo?

And yes, yes you can. You can tell the rest, "Tough ****! Don't like it, take a light 'mech."

That's how dictators do things.

[Delas Ting Usee]

Wanted to add - you can give ALL the incentives and cbills you want to lights - 2 things remain true:
1) If you're a light with a high damage score it's because the big boys flat out IGNORED you (Sometimes to their detriment) . You're not a big threat, I mean, if I had to choose between firing all guns at that Cataphract versus a firestarter, hey, the 'phract' gets it all.
2) The hitboxes on lights used to be atrocious BUT it somehow guaranteed their long survivability. Now, lights seem to die when the enemy just looks in their general direction. Methinks we took the nerf stick too far with the hitboxes.

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 23 July 2014 - 07:46 PM.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Mister Blastman, on 23 July 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

Boo hoo?

And yes, yes you can. You can tell the rest, "Tough ****! Don't like it, take a light 'mech."

That's how dictators do things.

No, it's not simply "Boo hoo".

The goal is to get more people to play Lights.

The goal is not to alienate Light pilots.

[Mister Blastman]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 23 July 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

No, it's not simply "Boo hoo".

The goal is to get more people to play Lights.

The goal is not to alienate Light pilots.

By allowing light pilots to be the only ones using Arty/Airstrike, how are you alienating them?

You are giving them a "perk" that nobody else has...

It makes sense, too, as they are the ones doing the scouting/flanking.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 23 July 2014 - 07:54 PM.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Delas Ting Usee, on 23 July 2014 - 07:44 PM, said:

Wanted to add - you can give ALL the incentives and cbills you want to lights - 2 things remain true:
1) If you're a light with a high damage score it's because the big boys flat out IGNORED you (Sometimes to their detriment) . You're not a big threat, I mean, if I had to choose between firing all guns at that Cataphract versus a firestarter, hey, the 'phract' gets it all.
2) The hitboxes on lights used to be atrocious BUT it somehow guaranteed their long survivability. Now, lights seem to die when the enemy just looks in their general direction. Methinks we took the nerf stick too far with the hitboxes.

1. If you're in a 1v2 situation, that Frestarter is going to RT core you within 10 seconds while you're firing at that Cataphract.

2. More to do with netcode being fixed so Lights don't have lag-shields anymore.

[Mystere]

Adiuvo, on 23 July 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

That there's this few in queue means they're being sucked up instantly by the matchmaker. Which also means that there are hardly any lights playing.

Wispsy, on 23 July 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Especially considering the amount of 0/1 light games I have seen today they must open up the queue pretty often...

Delas Ting Usee, on 23 July 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

While dropping last night the queues were such = lights-6%, Mediums-16%,Heavies,48%, Assaults-30%
Which of course led to a game where I and my team faced off against FOUR dire wolves and oh, we only had 2 Assaults on or team ...

That's odd. I've been playing 16:00-8:00 GMT Monday and Tuesday and 14:00-20:00 GMT Wednesday and I seem to have been seeing the full 3/3/3/3 compliment (at least on my team which I was counting).

Edited by Mystere, 23 July 2014 - 08:09 PM.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Mister Blastman, on 23 July 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

By allowing light pilots to be the only ones using Arty/Airstrike, how are you alienating them?

You are giving them a "perk" that nobody else has...

It makes sense, too, as they are the ones doing the scouting/flanking.

If it was something new introduced to the game exclusively for Light Mechs then fine. However, It's not a "perk" that nobody else has. It's a "perk" that everyone used to have that is now only accessibly to Light pilots arbitrarily. It's safe to assume people are going to complain and resentment towards Light pilots will grow.

Not only that, but it is a punitive punishment for people who willingly go into battle with less than max Mech Modules (read: gimped) in order to do more damage. A well-placed arty strike can win games.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 23 July 2014 - 08:05 PM.

[Vweegit]

I give serious props to those guys who are dedicated light fanatics. While I'm good, and my KDR in my lights is actually increasing in this new world, it takes alot more to remain good. Its too much like work - no more nights of me running 20 games in my Jenner. 3 or 4 games of trying my ass off to make zero mistakes, and thats it. It's back to heavy/assaultville I go. Easier play, easier rewards.

[Delas Ting Usee]

Hey Mystere, If I could figure out HOW to freaking add my screencaps to this forum I would. Oh, it happened all right. It happened.

[Ace Selin]

And yet in my Raven I still get 2-3 kills most matches, I see unkillable spiders, firestarters and jenners hitting & killing heavies/assaults from within them and run away virtually unscathed.
Lights aren't popular because people don't know how to use them properly, and want more POWER, even though lights can easily mount 30 points of damage.

[Mystere]

Delas Ting Usee, on 23 July 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

Hey Mystere, If I could figure out HOW to freaking add my screencaps to this forum I would. Oh, it happened all right. It happened.

I am not saying it's not happening, only that I haven't seen it during the time period I mentioned. In fact, I haven't seen it happen during the weekend either.

Maybe the fact that I am one of those lights is helping with filling out 3/3/3/3.

Edited by Mystere, 23 July 2014 - 08:34 PM.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Ace Selin, on 23 July 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

And yet in my Raven I still get 2-3 kills most matches, I see unkillable spiders, firestarters and jenners hitting & killing heavies/assaults from within them and run away virtually unscathed.

A single person's observations doesn't encompass the game as a whole. The only real metric we can use to judge the viability of a Weight class would be the %'ages we see waiting in Queue. When a Weight class dips to single digits consistently over significant lengths of time then there's something wrong.

It's probable that the Light pilots you see in-game are the die-hard pilots who enjoy the challenge - because that's the only thing Lights have going for them in this game's current state. If they enjoy the challenge then they have probably developed the skill set to be effective at what they do. There will always be that group of Light pilots who will play them regardless. This thread and the suggestions within aren't really applicable to those people. Any benefits those people get from an attempt to increase the Light pilot population is just a positive (hopefully) consequence.

Ace Selin, on 23 July 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

Lights aren't popular because people don't know how to use them properly, and want more POWER, even though lights can easily mount 30 points of damage.

First, I don't think anyone here is asking for Light Mech to have more "POWER". True, there are discussions about reducing IS heat values on lasers and whatnot, but that's in the context of I.S. v. Clan.

If Lights aren't popular because people don't know how to use them, what makes you think people will take the time to learn how to pilot them effectively without any incentives? Why would a person who tried out a Light, didn't like it for <insert reason> and decided they'd rather get into a STOMP STOMP Mech that has more pew pew and wont blow up after being hit by most Alpha Strikes?

In this game, what matters most is damage and kills. Why would you want to bring a Mech that can have a component blown off or get one-shot by most payloads being used when you can bring another Mech with much higher survivability and firepower. For the dedicated Light pilots - for the challenge. For the casual light pilots - *silence*.

Change the *silence* to C-Bills. Pay the Player who decides to play the most vulnerable Mech in this veiled FPS. Make it rewarding.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 23 July 2014 - 08:41 PM.

[Pjwned]

Lefty Lucy, on 19 July 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

Turrets make it so lights can't threaten the enemy team with a base cap.

Agreed, I've complained about this before myself and it's largely why I don't play Assault now.

Quote

No-min-range Clan LRMs mean lights aren't safe from guided weaponry up close.

This I don't agree with, C-LRMs still do practically no damage if you're up close.

Quote

Fall damage means lights will often take significant damage before the enemy is even engaged.

Agreed, but PGI acknowledges there's a problem and they were going to address it last patch but ran into "balance issues" so they dropped the ball and didn't implement it yet, kind of annoying but at least they know about it and are working on it.

Quote

The jump jet nerf means that lights have a much harder time getting out of bad situations, and if you reserve fuel to prevent extreme leg damage you get very little jump jet height in the first place, even with 5+ jj.

If you have to rely on crappy jumpjets to escape then that probably means you made a bad approach, personally I haven't noticed much of a change yet.

[Mister Blastman]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 23 July 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

If it was something new introduced to the game exclusively for Light Mechs then fine. However, It's not a "perk" that nobody else has. It's a "perk" that everyone used to have that is now only accessibly to Light pilots arbitrarily. It's safe to assume people are going to complain and resentment towards Light pilots will grow.

Not only that, but it is a punitive punishment for people who willingly go into battle with less than max Mech Modules (read: gimped) in order to do more damage. A well-placed arty strike can win games.

Who cares if everyone used to have it? Sometimes things have to be done to benefit the whole at the expense of a few.

That's like saying everyone used to have free healthcare but now they have to pay for it... without ever considering first that by getting rid of universal healthcare ultimately lowered the costs for everyone through less regulation, red tape, bureaucracy and lower taxes.

It isn't that a well placed arty can win games--it does, it is such that at high level play, everyone is forced to take arty and spam it constantly to compete. That's really mind-numbing and pointless. In Marik Civil War League, for instance, the best matches have always been those that banned the use of strikes.

Just because you had it before doesn't mean you get to keep it. You aren't entitled to strikes because you have them now.