1258 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

Wow, the one borked and silly build in the game that can only bepulled off the slowest, least maneuverable mech in the game is getting nerfed, and is causing these complex mechanisms added into the game.

Talk about noob whining slowing down development. People SERIOUSLY need to learn to use cover and stop huffing glue. I own the Direwolf, and I personally will never run the PPC Gauss combo because it's not my style.

However, here's a very important point from a gaming perspective, the less the player has to fight the game, the more fun they will have, and the more likely they are to stick with it. I shudder to think what might happen if we went back to proper TT armor values, and those twerps had to deal with boom jagers while only having half the armor they currently run.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 July 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors! Please let us know which of Paul's ideas to balance PPC+Gauss you would prefer to see in-game!

They're Paul's ideas, and therefore must be evil ... where's my pitchfork! (Just kidding.)

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I'm going to pre-empt the concern that nothing has happened with the PPC/Gauss combination in the game and Russ mentioning work being done on it for this patch.

I'm glad you're willing to discuss it ... while I'm not a big fan of hard limits on customization, etc., I'm also not a big fan of getting insta-gibbed from 500m when I peek around a corner.

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The new firing mechanic ...

This type of complexity (and heat scale, etc.) is why we need an operators manual for this game, particularly for new players. I don't need it, I read the official forums, and the patch notes, and half a dozen fan forums, and OutreachHPG, etc. ... but someone new to the game looking for "how does this (or heat scale, etc.) work" is going to have to either dig into old patch notes, etc. or ask someone. Having a single place where the game mechanics are explained would help ensure clear correct and complete answers are available.

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... Public Test Server for you to provide feedback and thoughts on the mechanic.

Please use the PTS more often for changes like this!

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One of the other solutions I've been looking at is slowing down the PPC projectile. ... The number I've been toying with is 750m/s for PPCs and 850m/s ERPPCs(IS and Clan).

Yikes! I'm not sure how I feel about this ... while it definitely would be a significant long-range nerf to PPCs, at short range, particularly when paired with an AC/20, PPCs would still be devastating.

You might want to consider a more gradual approach ... maybe knock down the speed by increments of 125m/s (or so) each month (or so) and track performance numbers.

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I understand that that both of these mechanics seem fairly heavy handed but it's time to bring this weapon combo into alignment with the other combinations of weapons.

It was time almost a year and a half ago, when ballistic HSR went live.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 29 July 2014 - 06:02 PM.

[EyeOne]

Don't mess with the PPC speeds. Please for the love of god don't. Especially don't cut it in half... crap.

If you are going to do anything slow down the PPC recycle time. Honestly I don't think you need to do anything about PP/Gauss at all.

Don't worry about the combo. Balance PPCs correctly! This is patchy band-aid non sense.

Edit: I've never piloted a Dire Wolf. But I don't have a problem with the Gauss/PPC Dire Whale as they call it. Honestly it's way less of an issue than the PPC/AC5 mechs because the DW is a blimp. Just, please, don't implement this silly system and don't destroy the PPC projectile speed.

Edited by EyeOne, 29 July 2014 - 06:00 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

MWO is the OICW of first person shooters.

[DeathlyEyes]

Vanguard319, on 29 July 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

Just because it's a tabletop rule does not mean it should not be implemented. It would do more to fix the pinpoint problem than any of these overly complex and ultimately ****** nerfs that PGI has implemented.

Random chance doesn't belong in a skill based video game.

[pwnface]

Please don't do any of this, PPFLD is fine barring the 50pt dire wolf build. Lasers will become super dominant if any of these changes are implemented. If PGI really think the PPC/Gauss combo is an issue, look into slightly increasing recycle time on these weapons rather than just throwing them under the bus.

Edited by pwnface, 29 July 2014 - 05:56 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

This is stupid.
Why can't players accept that there are supposed to be powerful combos that are meant to be painful! The player base is seriously hurting my head.

Quit it Paul.

[dak irakoz]

Homeless Bill, on 29 July 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

Bottom line: the weapon lock mechanic awkward, and there's no way to make it not awkward. And the alternative of changing PPC speed will just make it synergize with higher-calibre autocannons better, so people will switch to that. Sure, it negates the range, but the problem is still ultimately 30+ pinpoint damage to a single location.

I'm begging you to consider something like this. A hurricane of bandaids has done half of what a serious effort to tackle front-loaded damage could do, and you'd have the added benefit of having another way to balance over/under-performing variants.

You could argue that it's complicated, but how is it any more so than the combination of this arbitrary mechanic, Ghost Heat, the Gauss charge, and all the other jumpjet and PPC adjustments it's taken to get even this close? Please go comprehensive and get this over with.

Even if you don't use this proposed system, I hope you at least listen to its intent, which is to create a more comprehensive, easier to understand method of balancing, rather than adding countless sub-mechanics to attempt to hammer down every unbalanced combo or method that pops up.

Edited by dak irakoz, 29 July 2014 - 06:00 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

This is stupid.
Why can't players accept that there are supposed to be powerful combos that are meant to be painful! The player base is seriously hurting my head.

Quit it Paul.

Don't worry, soon enough we'll have walking nerfed, then arm movement, and then all weapons will be removed, and only MLs will remain in the game. At least, that's the natural conclusion of following the complaints of idiots.

[Carrioncrows]

Make PPC's a Charge based weapon and increase the projectile speed

Then put in the Gauss / ppc hardlock.

Or better yet, make PPC's a charge based hitscan duration based weapon, muwahahahahhaha..

Edited by Carrioncrows, 29 July 2014 - 06:03 PM.

[Big Tin Man]

My $0.02: it's simple.

PPC and Gauss can fire all at once. Speeds remain the same. Keep 2 gauss limit (sorry b33f)

They recycle one at a time due to heavy power draw filling capacitors (whatever helps you sleep at night). Up recharge time for both to 6 seconds.

Want to alpha your Superdirewhale? (3ppc 2gauss) 30 seconds of recharge before you can alpha again.




Hope you 1-shotted that light running around your ankles because it is going to eat you. If you just winged it, you're dead.

[Imperius]

Just take away all the weapons and we can all just play hug warrior online...

[Cimarb]

I would prefer for the PPC damage to be spread more, and for IS as well (just not as much as Clan). So...

Clan ERPPC: 7/4/4
IS ERPPC/PPC: 8/1/1

That would get the PPFLD of IS 2PPC/Guass combos to 31 (currently 35), right at the threshold that Russ said PGI was aiming for, and the Dire Whale would have a PPFLD of 44 (currently 50).

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 July 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors!

Please let us know which of Paul's ideas to balance PPC+Gauss you would prefer to see in-game!

How has this phrase not brought up universal red alarms throughout the office?

[East Indy]

Very glad you guys are tightening the screws. Massive FLD is just bad for BattleTech.

Paul, I'd prefer you look into ways of limiting simultaneous fire that allows you to actually undo a lot of velocity de-syncs. The problem has never been one weapon type: it's been a bunch of them all at once.

Edited by East Indy, 29 July 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[Deathlike]

I don't even know where to begin or end... because Paul... we know you bring the silliest of ideas only to be flogged back and forth, and still never give in. While I'll give you credit for "standing your ground", it doesn't mean the changes you are thinking to make are going to help the game long term... it is more or less shortsighted at best.

For instance, "desyncing" PPCs and Gauss only makes the PPC+AC5/AC10/AC20 combos a lot more palatable. It doesn't solve anything of consequence. While CERPPCs and CGauss are crazy on a Daishi (and I've openly complained about it already), this is a bandaid solution to a more complex problem... convergence. It doesn't matter how we get to it... it will rear its ugly head, and there will be a point of no return with more bandaid approached with undocumented info for newbies.

Lowering PPCs speeds "sounds" OK, but on the other hand makes the PPC+AC10 or even the PPC+AC20 combo seem nice. Then again, I don't think one would able to maximize their potential with respect to range (this will be troublesome @ the optimal range). What you're also indirectly favoring is stacking larger Targeting Computers on Clan mechs to abuse Clan ER Large range and damage (with respect to optimal range)... that DOES NOT penalize a player for heat. I'm not sure that's even fair or comparable to what the IS has to deal with.

Of course, you're letting dual Gauss run just wild... not that it doesn't have its own drawbacks, but... those are going to be popular, if not some sort of ERLarge+Gauss combos.

In any case... while you, Paul, are restricting some legit builds, you are only creating collateral damage in some other area... reinforcing the notion "we think we know what we're doing" and actually "repeating same/more mistakes" as before.

The quickest solution is not the best solution... you have to put time, effort, and thought into the solution at hand.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 July 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[Hellcat420]

do not slow the speed down on the ppc's. you already tried that and it didnt work.

[Pardo Kerensky]

This is completely and utterly R E T A R D E D and not needed.
Please for the love of god dont do this.

[IraqiWalker]

I swear, the real problem with this game is the player base that doesn't understand how Batteltech mechs fought. Increased TTK was the first flaw for the record.

A simple battle between 2 mechs lasts about 30-ish seconds. sometimes even less. Right now, our mechs take longer to die than they do in TT. Other than 1 -ONE- specific build on the dire wolf, most mechs can't kill something within 20 seconds (aside from a lucky shot onto a light mech's ST).

[Gryphorim]

Impression: Too complex. Just a thought, but take on HomelessBill's alternative version of heatscale, as written here: http://mwomercs.com/...0#entry3502450.

Or if we are going down the proscribed route, turn off Gauss charge, replacing it with a maximum no. of fired PPC/Gauss to 2.