588 replies to this topic

[Haakon Magnusson]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 July 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

Some have indicated that it is silly for Clans to have access to artillery in the first place, given their philosophical beliefs regarding that weapon system.
With that in mind, Clans will only be able to use Air Strikes.

To balance the Inner Sphere: MechWarriors will have the option to use both Air Strikes and Artillery, but will only be able to field one or the other on each Mech.

Hmm, thematically I like the clan approach, clan v is matches last night were brutal and IS will need to be more campy... the one where we had one daishi disco, it was a little bit more even (And a sensible IS team as well)

Although, having IS being able to use either, well, before I did not load up both. Nor do I do it now, but I will continue with with my new slot system enabled carrying of arty always and forever.

I would much rather have these abilities tied to, for example command console, thus being a little limited. Perhaps it could also give you an additional consumable slot. 12 strikes to a side is bit much... this new system almost forcing that

[L3GR0DANCER]

7ynx, on 30 July 2014 - 09:59 PM, said:

Lets get back on track to CW please. Let us see how badly that can be muffed up. I blame myself for being a mech-head.

Sir, can I recommend to you self-flagellation? I hear it was quite cathartic for some monks in the 13th century.

[Naduk]

i very much like where the module system is headed
its alot more useful overall now

however there is one thing i would change

i would add another new category
"sensors"

this would split things that effect your electronics and your mech
this would also allow more design options when approaching role warfare in the future
for example mechs like the raven might have more sensors slots than mech slots but a spider would still have a few but perhaps more mech slots as the overall premise for each chassis is different

this would also allow the creation of modules that effect things like vision modes, ecm/bap and other items not previously tapped into for modification

[Troopie]

Add one zero to arty and air strike prize.
Drop weapon modules to ~300000 prize.

And try it with new module system.

[Asmosis]

irony1999, on 29 July 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

A role warfare change would have been separating out modules by role

But instead of being sensible and giving scout mechs a boost for sensor modules, command mechs a boost for command modules, etc... you separated out weapon modules which are barely used, and lumped all the mech modules together.

Why not try going back to your own design docs, separate the mech modules by role as you originally intended (and still makes the most sense), and give us a compelling reason to play different mechs for their modules?

+1

Limiting the module slots simply means instead of taking the mandatory modules + optional modules for your role, every mech can now only take the mandatory modules so rather than increase options, you have removed just about every option relating to modules.

There are 4 categories under mech modules, give mechs 0-2 in each category for those if you want role warfare.

Edited by Asmosis, 31 July 2014 - 12:20 AM.

[MasterBLB]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 July 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors,

The Dev Team has heard out your concerns regarding the over-use of Artillery and Air Strikes. With your feedback in mind the following changes are to be implemented within the next 2 patches.

Some have indicated that it is silly for Clans to have access to artillery in the first place, given their philosophical beliefs regarding that weapon system.
With that in mind, Clans will only be able to use Air Strikes.

To balance the Inner Sphere: MechWarriors will have the option to use both Air Strikes and Artillery, but will only be able to field one or the other on each Mech.

Please let us know what you think and update us on how this change will affect your overall impression of the module changes.

Dear Niko and Dev Team

It's nice to know you do listen to our feedback and concerns.However,you still trying to force your not so well solution.
Artillery+Airstrike spam is only part of the problem.The 2nd one is weapon modules and thus weapon slots.You took away few useful mech modules,and gave us nothing in return - you can set available number of weapon slots to 1000 and they still be worthless compared to just one mech module slot.Not to mention that the change affected Clan mechs bought for real money so peoples have basics to demand refunds.And in EU countries each law court will support such demands.
And the 3rd one is that there are mech module slots whose are vastly superior compared to each one.By reducing number of mech module slots you limit possible possible configurations,because just no one will even look at say Hill Climb when having just two mech slots.

So,if you really want to allow players to setup their mechs to some role on a battle field,the module system must be extended as follows,not limited:
1) JUST ONE consumable.
Just one because even with limitation Artillery OR Airstrike choosing consumables would be no-brainer.Every one just blindly take Arty/Air+Coolant/UAV,or 2xCoolant/UAV.Where is thinking about role in that?Nowhere.
But when there will be just one slot,well...players would have to think which consumable suits their build and desired role better.Also it prevents uncontrollable Arty/Air spam,as not everyone will take it - personally,for my 5xLL Stalker I'd choose Coolant Flush rather than Art/Air.And I'd have to use it wisely in battle as I'd have just one.

2) Mech module slots should be set to 3/4 (4/5 with master efficiency) on all mechs
Because 2-3 module slots are always reserved for most important ones like Radar Derp,Seismic Sensor,Target Info Gathering,Target Decay or Sensor Range there is simply no space for other modules.And only from that point,after equipping that vital for surviving modules there is place for players to think about something to support their chosen role.
Not to mention your effort to put into the game modules like Hill Climb,Speed Retention etc. is simply wasted,as even they are quite good players can't take it due to lack of space.And they are no competition for the top ones.

3) Weapon slots have to be reworked as currently there are pile of crap.Then,assuming the new ones are worthy to take,number of weapon slots should be 1 for mechs with 4 mech module slots and 2 for these having 3 mech slots.+1 weapon slot should be given with master efficiency.
Well,that says everything.No weapon module except AMS ones and Improved Narc are worthy of consideration.In my previous post I've gave you few examples how weapon modules should be like ( http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3595664 ).The general idea is that each weapon (maybe except TAG and NARC) should have at least 3 nice modules whose all are really nice to have.Having 2/3 weapon module slots will allow player to fully upgrade just one weapon system (but hey,no one prevents you to make weapon modules such way that equipping all of them makes no sense).And mechs with less mech module slots would have slight advantage here over those what was given 4th mech module slot.

Mmkey,let's see some examples of my proposed module system about possibility to chose role on a battlefield.Assume Raven 3L,fully upgraded would have:
1 consumable
5 mech modules (4+1 from mastery)
2 weapon modules (1+1 from mastery)
and let's say I want to be good scout.In that case,I'd take modules:
1 Consumable - UAV
Due to just one consumable slot,I had to think for a while like "hmmm...if I want to be scout and show targets to teammates perhaps UAV would be best to suit me in that role.Crap,or maybe Airstrike?Oh dammit..." See that Devs?I AM FORCED TO THINK ABOUT MY ROLE.Having 2 consumables slots,I would mindlessly take UAV+Arty/Air without 2nd thought.

2 Mech modules
Well,first most obvious ones,like Seismic Sensor,Target Info Gathering and Advanced Sensor Range.But then due to 2 mech module slots there is area to wonder what else module would support me in my scout role better - I'd think some like "Should I take Hill Climb so I could reach steeper hills and be able to watch enemies from above?Advanced Target Decay so if I'll guide friendly LRMs there will be greater chance for them to reach the target?Or perhaps Radar Deprivation so in case of being spotted and highlighted I could quickly vanish behind a cover?Hmm,Capture Accelerator also looks nice,after initial spotting work I could make some sabotage by running onto their base,and that could drive few enemies out of fight...not to mention it may be alternative victory contidion.Crap,Shock Absorbance also looks well,it'd help me to fearlessly jump off cliffs so I could scout on shorter route instead searching safe way down.And what about Speed Retention?Peoples like to leg light mechs,with that module I'd have some chance to escape in that case.And Advanced Zoom,it case I'd take 2xER LL it'll help me to precisely shoot at chosen component,and recognize silhouettes of enemy mechs.Ehh,choices choices..."
See that Devs?I WONDER ABOUT WHAT MODULE WOULD SUIT ME IN MY ROLE THE BEST.There are 7 possible modules left and all supports my chosen role in some way,but I have to pick just two.And my choice also is determined by the map I'll be scouting on.
If THAT is not role-supporting then damn,I've no slightest idea what is.
Mmkey,and now wonder about your current solution - only 2 mech modules.Do you Devs seriously think anyone would ever consider take anything other that two of Seismic/TIG/ASR?The answer is - nope.
Also,in my solution players would have reasons to spend bunch of GXP and C-Bills on all mechs modules,not only on the most vital ones.

3 Weapon modules
For now,there is nothing here to consider,except Improved NARC.

Aaand,what if I wish to be stealth sniper Raven 3L?In that case:
1 Consumables
I'd have to think if I wish to have better offensive capabilities and thus take Arty/Airstrike,or be able to sustain longer fight and thus take Coolshot.See that Devs?AGAIN,BECAUSE CONSUMABLES ARE LIMITED TO ONE I HAVE TO THINK WHAT MODULE TO TAKE.Having 2 slots I would just take both.As simple and mindless as that.

2 Mech modules
Obvious three first - TIG,Adv Sensor Range,Adv Seismic Sensor.But then,I still have choice - as a sniper,probably I'd benefit the most from Adv Zoom.And one last module left.Well...Hill Climb will allow me to reach good sniping spots.Shock Absorbance is also nice,because I could use steeper routes down and thus change sniping spots quicker.Assuming I've taken Arty/Air accuracy module for these may be a good choice.Speed Retention is also appealing,even legged I could still move around with okay speed.
See that Devs?AGAIN,MY SOLUTION PROVIDES SPACE TO THINK ABOUT ROLE AND WHAT SUITS TO THAT ROLE THE BEST.AND GIVES SENSE OF EXISTENCE FOR ALL MECH MODULES,AS AFTER 4 OBVIOUS CHOICES 5TH ONE NEEDS SOME THINKING ON.

3 Weapon Modules
Assuming some day you'll create few cool weapon modules for large lasers I'd have to think which two of them suits my needs the best.

And,now something completely different - I want to use my CTF-4X dual AC10 with standard engine as durable brawler.Mastered,it would have 1 consumables,4 mech modules and 3 weapon slots.
1 Consumables
Arty/Air to soften enemies before brawl,Coolshot to sustain fight longer,or UAV to have better situational awareness for me and teammates brawling along.There is a choice there,and not so obvious as it may seem.

2 mech modules
TIG,Seismic Sensor and Radar Deprivation.But then,well...Improved Gyros would help to endure AC20/LRMs barrages better.Adv Sensor Range could help to read information about these pesky ECM-covered mechs.Adv Zoom would give me possibility to accurately shoot at cockpits on middle distance,or snipe at that 450m.360 Target Retention is also quite nice,I could see how nimbler mechs maneuver behind my back and thus counter-maneuver to get firing solution at them.In brawl it's almost certain to get hurt,so maybe Speed Retention to still be able to maneuver even legged?Or maybe Arty/Air Accuracy?Hill Climb and Shock Absorbance seems to be less useful,but on certain maps they are also nice to have.
And what you see Devs?I CAN MAKE A CHOICE HERE.I can because there are enough module slots to do so.

3 Weapon modules
4X loses side torsos quite easily,so I'd have to think if I want to take all possible improvements for AC10s in arms,or maybe something for 2xML in central and SRM4 in head as well.


Assuming all above I do hope you Devs will adjust module system as proposed.Because your initial idea is the right one,however its execution is not perfect yet.

Kind regards,
MasterBLB

Edited by MasterBLB, 20 August 2014 - 12:40 AM.

[SgtKinCaiD]

The arty/airstrike limitation is a step in the right direction but we still need a bigger cooldown on it.

[Daehoth]

SgtKinCaiD, on 31 July 2014 - 01:15 AM, said:

The arty/airstrike limitation is a step in the right direction but we still need a bigger cooldown on it.

Honestly though, no offense, but please no one say it's a step in the right direction ever again.
Because they were the ones who purposefully broke it in the first place. It happened just a few days ago, PGI 'fixing' something that wasn't broken and gave us something that was entirely broken.

No..it's not a step in the right direction, just step in the direction of FIXING it, make many more steps towards redemption and all will be forgiven.

[POWR]

Appogee, on 30 July 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

The new limitations will be a start, but they don't go nearly far enough. There's still the potential for 48 strikes per match (IS Mechs only), or 36 strikes in a mixed match. In practice, I believe we'll still see 20 or so.

I don't know how you count 12x1x2 as 48, could you explain?

Edited by POWR, 31 July 2014 - 01:32 AM.

[oldhasu]

Great news! Soon mechs that costs me 240$ will not be abe too shoot proper alpha strikes and use artillery stirke. Keep up the good work there! Im looking forward for all my clan mechs to become a pice of **** soon

[L3GR0DANCER]

oldhasu, on 31 July 2014 - 01:40 AM, said:

Great news! Soon mechs that costs me 240$ will not be abe too shoot proper alpha strikes and use artillery stirke. Keep up the good work there! Im looking forward for all my clan mechs to become a pice of **** soon

Nerf everyting straight into the ground! It's the only solution to balance.

[oldhasu]

Actually I just got a new great idea: take away artillery only form people who select one of the Clans as their faction so they can follow their beliefs and principles

[QuaxDerBruchpilot]

Hi PGI,

as of lately we had good news on how this game developes.

However, the module system seems to be a movve into the wrong direction as so many above already have stated, so no more words on that topic. I hope you hear us as you promise ...

Well, for the "no arty for clans" part, I don't think this is a good idea. Basically it robbes the clans the possiblity of punctual strikes. Which makes no sense 'cause a fighter jet can do both strafing runs (like the implemented air strike) and aerial bombardement (like the current arty strike).
So I think this would be too much of "stick to the lore" for no reason (you left the lore on so many other occasions already ..).

But allow me to elaborate a bit on the arty/air strike topic. I think both have their place in this game, but on the other side IMHO at the moment come along way to cheap compared to their effect on the battlefield (also compared to the effect on your game result in XP and C-Bills!!).

So IMHO beeing able to call in an arty or air strike should be connected to having installed a proper module that comes at the cost of C-Bills (one-time to buy it), slots and weight. Like, e.g. ... the command console? This would then enable you to call an arty/airstrike at the current costs (of 40.000 per strike or so ... don't remember .. ).

Additonaly, I feel that number of arty/air strikes that can be called in per battle should be limited. I don't experience fun in getting nuked twelve times each battle, no matter if I receive damage or not .. it's just way too much. But maybe this would be solved by linking the strike capability to above mentioned module.

Well, just my 2 ct.

Cheers,

Edited by Quax1102, 31 July 2014 - 03:13 AM.

[POWR]

oldhasu, on 31 July 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Actually I just got a new great idea: take away artillery only form people who select one of the Clans as their faction so they can follow their beliefs and principles

Good idea. But, at the same time ban use of non-clan mechs while doing so.

[QuaxDerBruchpilot]

POWR, on 31 July 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

I don't know how you count 12x1x2 as 48, could you explain?

24 'Mechs on 2 teams
2 strikes per 'Mech
48 strikes

[Texas Merc]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 30 July 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

Hell's Horses have a dignified place in the storyarch, but we have already mentioned that only the first 4 invading clans will be represented at this stage of the game.

IE there was too much arty air spam so we made up a reason why we will cut all this back.

also squawk motherquackers

[meteorol]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 July 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

Some have indicated that it is silly for Clans to have access to artillery in the first place, given their philosophical beliefs regarding that weapon system.
With that in mind, Clans will only be able to use Air Strikes.

To balance the Inner Sphere: MechWarriors will have the option to use both Air Strikes and Artillery, but will only be able to field one or the other on each Mech.

Generally i'm fine with this change, but i beg you to consider a one time "reset" on consumables if you do this.
The changes to the general module system forced us to choose which modules we like to use, but it gave us the possibility of doing so.

Clan mech users can't choose if the like to use air or arti. This change will simply delete 15k GXP from their game if they chose arti before this patch. A buddy of mine just got improved arti for his TW like a week ago. He was shattered when i just informed him about those planned changes, because he doesn't have enough GXP to get improved airstrike, and won't be able to use his arti anymore (he plays nothing but his TW ever since he got it).

You should really consider refunding arti strike modules for clan mech users. Forcing you to choose which module you would like to use on your mech is one thing, but entirely excluding clan players from using something they already spent 15k GXP on is a bit harsh.

[Wraithlord77]

I for one am unsure about the module slot changes , its not that i dont agree its just at the moment it feels like they need a lot of tweeking and some additions for mech rolls. The so called arty spam i have no problim with , sometimes i mistakenly call arty in on myself instead of the uav yea dam tree in the way or wrong botton lol and yesterday i did it and less than 1 min later i was hit by an enime arty strike ,it hurt yes but my thunderbolt was still there and only my torso was just about red. I think it dose as intended an AREA DENIAL weapon as boy did i run for cover , Maybe make arty a destructable structure like the turrets to negate arty spam for full game ,hey it would give lights another proper roll to play other than spotting and buzzing about the map.
My only real gripe is the weapon slots I have about 5/6 weapon modules unlocked and only ever use 2 the AMS range module and the LBX range boost, everything else bar about 3 or 4 others is IMO usless becouse of the extra heat they give , it may not be much but as i run most of my mechs fairly hot ANY extra heat is a no no thus on 90% of my mechs my weapon mod slots are empty. How about some lance and commander modules ie some mods that only the likes of the DDC can fit that add a bonus to yer intire team and some for non commander mechs for lance leaders as most lances in pugs dont have leaders .

well thats my 2cents anyhow

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Future of Modules...

First I'd love to be able to FIND them easier before PGI does anything else with modules.

Why can't there be an indicator on the Lower RIght portion of the screen (or anywhere for that matter) showing what mech/weapon modules you have installed? Sure maybe I should remember, but we shouldn't have to play "Where's Waldo" with our modules, being forced to click on each mech, click configure, then click modules to see if there are any on them, then click back, and back again, and repeat the process wasting 5 minutes plus digging through mechs.

Basically my prayer to PGI is make the mechanics and system more user friendly instead of feeling like some half-hearted attempt or a process long swept under the porch and forgotten about.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 July 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

Some have indicated that it is silly for Clans to have access to artillery in the first place, given their philosophical beliefs regarding that weapon system.

Clans also didn't dance hand in hand alongside Inner Sphere mechs in games of Team Death Match either, nor did they drop in groups of 4, nor did they dumb down their technology to make it "Fair" when fighting against IS mechs, and they also had LBX autocannons that could do shot or slug...

But sure, why not make it so Clan can't use Artillery strikes. So that means Clan will be getting Arrow IV systems to replace that... since that's "lore," quiaff?